List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Justnetime]

Name a skinny runt who can't tackle who has ever played in a Clarko on ball brigade- just one.

It’s a very good question. Xavier Ellis?

But I take your point, he would never be stupid enough to trade for someone. But then I think he is drinking in his own bath water by taking on the Norf job. So just maybe it’s still a chance.

 

[JustaBattler]

Neither did Setterfield, and that was clearly a poor move to hold back from for over a month.

No one's talking about him being a top 3 midfielder for anyone, just that he's getting centre bounce looks, and stoppage looks. The idea that he's too daft to rotate between that and a lead-up role from HF is ludicrous.

We play dumb, slow football, and have for years now. This year, we finally went beyond 'only when the opposition is feeble' to 'feeble or they get tricked into not defending the corridor'.

We play slow dumb football because Voss is saddled with too many slow dumb footballers - you can only play a game style that suits the person you have on board - which is why everyone from the Chairman / CEO / Football boss and Voss have repeatedly stated all year - the list is far from complete.

 

[JustaBattler]

It’s a very good question. Xavier Ellis?

But I take your point, he would never be stupid enough to trade for someone. But then I think he is drinking in his own bath water by taking on the Norf job. So just maybe it’s still a chance.

Xavier Ellis dint play on ball though

also I think Clarko got very lucky scoring Buddy Roughhead Hodge Lewis etc - when teh AFl still gave out priority picks and then had his team list set- when GWS and Suns entered and ;literally stole all the picks from teams stuck down below - for two years ...I do rate him higher than Malthouse though - Malthouse is a wack job and always was - a poor mans Sheedy copy cat clone

 

[Arr0w]

We play slow dumb football because Voss is saddled with too many slow dumb footballers - you can only play a game style that suits the person you have on board - which is why everyone from the Chairman / CEO / Football boss and Voss have repeatedly stated all year - the list is far from complete.

Nor does he have the attributes to rest at HF

 

[Jimmae]

We play slow dumb football because Voss is saddled with too many slow dumb footballers - you can only play a game style that suits the person you have on board - which is why everyone from the Chairman / CEO / Football boss and Voss have repeatedly stated all year - the list is far from complete.

You can't bemoan that, when he's opted to pick them, when he's opting to give them 3 year contracts.

You can't be this impatient when you've got a talented - but frankly, traumatised - list. It's not a great deal of trauma in the grand scheme of things of course, but it tends to be more than the opposition most weeks.

 

[Blue By Blood]

All this talk of Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

..
I still think he's a decent prospect and has the talent. Not evry player has to be a star and to be a great team you have to have good depth in the reserves. Really hope we don't throw him away for a late pick as there are still some exciting traits to build upon.

However, at the moment he is not best 22. His game still has some deficiencies which he needs to work on. People often pot him for his defensive efforts. I don't think it's a lack of effort at all- it's a combination of a lack of natural awareness of defensive running patterns, positioning, and a lack of a tank. I think he would benefit immensely from being given a tagging role to learn the running patterns of the great players.

The other issue with him is his lack of a second position. Cripps can rest forward and take a clunk. Kennedy also. Setterfield can move to a wing if needed. Walsh can go wing, half forward, or I imagine half-back also if needed. Cerra likewise. So basically he either has to do one of the following:

1. Become a top-3 mid at the club to be an on-ball mainstay which would require him significantly improving his fitness and defensive positioning to surpass a guy like Hewett, Setterfield, or Kennedy.
2. Add an extra string to his bow to be able to play a second position well. Improve his kicking to a high enough level to go off half-back for instance. Or learn to start hitting the scoreboard up forward, which seems the longest shot because I don't think he has the natural forward instincts.

This isn't all on Paddy though as I believe the club has absolutely not given him the best chance to succeed. For reserves watchers, what have we actually tried with him? Has he been given time as a tagger? Has he spent large chunks of time up forward? Or is he toiling away in the midfield and doing it largely well- to the point he might go close to winning the Liston Medal?

 

[TENACIOUS]

Exactly and only Motlop has that potential on our list IMO but he is still a kid and we can’t put that pressure on him.

Owies and Durdin are rubbish who are just scrappers who bob up once every 6 weeks.

This is where our issues lie...
The role of a forward is to manic pressure or kick goals...

Fisher (18), Silvagni (17), Martin (14), Owies (14) didn't offer much at all in this area, this year...
Durdin (15), Motlop (14) and Honey (1) can cut some slack as they are still teenagers...

For us to progress these guys need to get better or replaced...We fall behind the top 4 teams in this area...

Players being discussed, that we should be chasing... Would drastically change our forward line
Breust (40)
Zurhaar (34)
Henry (21)

 

[YamandU]

What about Norf for Dow. Clarko might do a crazy Vossy.

Dow isn’t up to it. Not just at Carlton, but anywhere unfortunately. He’s been given ample opportunity. Losses cut

 

[rp84]

Ok, and I'm saying focus more on Owies and Fisher, and perhaps leave a midfield rotation role there in the forward structure. We've got plenty of taller mids who could do exactly what you're asking for.

Because we're not as smart as we think we are.

Our team became ultra-defensive in the second half of the season, which is how we kept defending well but our scoring dried up.

But to answer your key question: Collingwood, Dogs, Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn, Lions, Richmond, Essendon, West Coast, North Melbourne.

Kick more than 18 goals as a forward, or be involved more in scoring chains and delivering the football if he's a midfielder, and it's equal 6th when you switch to average. 4th for scoring involvements when that's basically his entire role. That slides back to 7th when you switch to average score involvements per match.

Mid-tier for goal assists per game. Second half of the season was better, but still goes missing when the heat goes up. Right now, we can sell him high, and bring in a better attacking midfielder, or a better small or medium forward... or just open up a rotation spot in the forward line to use an extra genuine mid all game.

Think we might have an all-Australian nod that flies in the face of your theory.

Saad attacking game is off the charts and certainly defended better this year. Doesn't lock down as much as I expect Boyd will.

 

[teknodeejay]

This is where our issues lie...
The role of a forward is to manic pressure or kick goals...

Fisher (18), Silvagni (17), Martin (14), Owies (14) didn't offer much at all in this area, this year...
Durdin (15), Motlop (14) and Honey (1) can cut some slack as they are still teenagers...

For us to progress these guys need to get better or replaced...We fall behind the top 4 teams in this area...

Players being discussed, that we should be chasing... Would drastically change our forward line
Breust (40)
Zurhaar (34)
Henry (21)

Goal Assists are as important as a goal itself. Top 5 for the year:
Durdin (13), LoB, Curnow (12), Cripps, Owies (11).

That top 5 is also the only 5 who have over 10 Assists for goals which is where a good portion of issue lies. Geelong for instance has double that number. Collingwood’s is made up mostly of their midfielders.

Interestingly Bruest kicked 40 and assisted more than anyone on our team with another 15. If he can go another 2 years why wouldn’t you get him in?

I can see reason as to why midfielders who can carry and deliver would be a key target.

Fisher is a conundrum. Played every game. Scoreboard impact is a poor return if he’s playing more forward or when he gets an opportunity at goal. Doesn’t get a lot of it if he’s up in the midfield or in link up play. Given he has a 2/3 kick to handball ratio he isn’t cutting apart teams and is not a great mark nor can contest in the air. Can he improve or is he going to coast on similar output year after year? It wouldn’t surprise me if I were to hear of him being shopped for a new home.

 

[BeijingBlue]

Goal Assists are as important as a goal itself. Top 5 for the year:
Durdin (13), LoB, Curnow (12), Cripps, Owies (11).

That top 5 is also the only 5 who have over 10 Assists for goals which is where a good portion of issue lies. Geelong for instance has double that number. Collingwood’s is made up mostly of their midfielders.

Interestingly Bruest kicked 40 and assisted more than anyone on our team with another 15. If he can go another 2 years why wouldn’t you get him in?

I can see reason as to why midfielders who can carry and deliver would be a key target.

Fisher is a conundrum. Played every game. Scoreboard impact is a poor return if he’s playing more forward or when he gets an opportunity at goal. Doesn’t get a lot of it if he’s up in the midfield or in link up play. Given he has a 2/3 kick to handball ratio he isn’t cutting apart teams and is not a great mark nor can contest in the air. Can he improve or is he going to coast on similar output year after year? It wouldn’t surprise me if I were to hear of him being shopped for a new home.

To add to this. A glaring issue for me is the lack of crumbing from our smaller forwards. So many times over the past two weeks in particular, opposition defenders rebounded from a marking contest with ease. Given the long bombs we continually lob into our forward line, there were plenty of opportunities. Motlop and Martin did some but nothing from Durdin and Owies. Pretty basic. Something that is coached from an early age but obviously we don't work on that.

 

[Earls Smother]

Goal Assists are as important as a goal itself. Top 5 for the year:
Durdin (13), LoB, Curnow (12), Cripps, Owies (11).

That top 5 is also the only 5 who have over 10 Assists for goals which is where a good portion of issue lies. Geelong for instance has double that number. Collingwood’s is made up mostly of their midfielders.

Interestingly Bruest kicked 40 and assisted more than anyone on our team with another 15. If he can go another 2 years why wouldn’t you get him in?

I can see reason as to why midfielders who can carry and deliver would be a key target.

Fisher is a conundrum. Played every game. Scoreboard impact is a poor return if he’s playing more forward or when he gets an opportunity at goal. Doesn’t get a lot of it if he’s up in the midfield or in link up play. Given he has a 2/3 kick to handball ratio he isn’t cutting apart teams and is not a great mark nor can contest in the air. Can he improve or is he going to coast on similar output year after year? It wouldn’t surprise me if I were to hear of him being shopped for a new home.

Agree on Fisher.

All the debate about his weight and similiar players - how many of them are so totally one-sided? Blokes like Baker and Daniel have it all over Fisher because they can go either way. It is the combination of weight, height and left-sided-ness that holds him back. You can get away with it if you have blistering pace, but he doesn't have that either.

Fisher got out the back in the first quarter on Sunday. He had 2 Pies players beaten and was goalside of them. What did he do? Doubled back, got shutdown and the opportunity was lost.

How many would be confident if Fisher crumbed a pack in a prelim or Granny on his right foot with a minute to go and we are a kick down?

 

[teknodeejay]

To add to this. A glaring issue for me is the lack of crumbing from our smaller forwards. So many times over the past two weeks in particular, opposition defenders rebounded from a marking contest with ease. Given the long bombs we continually lob into our forward line, there were plenty of opportunities. Motlop and Martin did some but nothing from Durdin and Owies. Pretty basic. Something that is coached from an early age but obviously we don't work on that.

My humble opinion is that Motlop has star potential and Durdin is capable of being a very good player. He has some good abilities, can move through traffic and a keen eye for goal. They’d be my top two in the SF brigade. Add Breust then draft George and happy days.

 

[FRUMPY]

I wonder what role durdin ends up playing, is he just a small fwd or will he progress more to a midfield role/small fwd role. I dont know what he was like in under age footy. I would presume he'll build his tank and gets stints in the midfield. good turn of speed and gets out of traffic ok

 

[The_MCG]

I think Cerra and Weitering are two players who will kill it in 2023. Both just ok in 2022 given their pedigree.

Weitering wasn't the same player after he came back from his shoulder operation. Hopefully he can return to the player he was prior to sustaining that injury.

 

[goreds]

Weitering wasn't the same player after he came back from his shoulder operation. Hopefully he can return to the player he was prior to sustaining that injury.

6 weeks off will do wonders for that shoulder. Hopefully he doesn’t need to go in for a clean up…

 

[goreds]

I wonder what role durdin ends up playing, is he just a small fwd or will he progress more to a midfield role/small fwd role. I dont know what he was like in under age footy. I would presume he'll build his tank and gets stints in the midfield. good turn of speed and gets out of traffic ok

Plenty have compared him to a young boomer Harvey. I see the similarities, he just needs more strength, more miles in the legs and to get around the ball a bit.

Definitely could be very very good…

 

[FRUMPY]

Plenty have compared him to a young boomer Harvey. I see the similarities, he just needs more strength, more miles in the legs and to get around the ball a bit.

Definitely could be very very good…

his first two months or thereabout were really good, struggled more after that but thats going to happen in your first few years. Showed good signs of a leap and mark overhead as well a few times early in the season

 

[Coops93]

I wonder what role durdin ends up playing, is he just a small fwd or will he progress more to a midfield role/small fwd role. I dont know what he was like in under age footy. I would presume he'll build his tank and gets stints in the midfield. good turn of speed and gets out of traffic ok

He was a midfielder for most of his junior footy and changed to small forward later on given his small size.

I think he looks his best when up the ground, though. On the few occasions his run and cleanness through contests upfield has impressed me much more than anything he's done as a small forward - bar perhaps his pressure intent, though than waned in the back half of the year.

 

[azlou]

Credit to Arrows idea I also think Boyd could be a very good small forward or be more effective in Fischers role
He has real toe powerful penetrating accurate kick shows mongrel when applying pressure seems to have reasonable footy iq
Then I like the idea of Kemp in the forward line he is also a good kick good overhead bit of pace and seems to win one on one contests
I wouldn’t mind McGovern forward but feel at the start of the year he set up attacking play with long kicks into the corridor and I would rather replicate that again

 

[Coops93]

Credit to Arrows idea I also think Boyd could be a very good small forward or be more effective in Fischers role
He has real toe powerful penetrating accurate kick shows mongrel when applying pressure seems to have reasonable footy iq
Then I like the idea of Kemp in the forward line he is also a good kick good overhead bit of pace and seems to win one on one contests
I wouldn’t mind McGovern forward but feel at the start of the year he set up attacking play with long kicks into the corridor and I would rather replicate that again

Didn't Boyd get moved out of the forward line to half back, a move that ultimately got him drafted by us, because he wasn't good enough even at VFL level as a small forward?

 

[macky99]

As I said, Dow wouldn't be a starting 3 mid in any side at the moment

I would not discount the well drilled & strong leadership teams such as Richmond/Geelong having the capability of making him a better player and being that 3rd mid in their structures.
Most likely different at North Melbourne or lower down the order team he may be no different, many players have gone to other clubs and taken their game to the next level, happens every year.

 

[Coops93]

I'm finding the amount of people suggesting McGovern to the forwardline curious. The whole reason he was moved back was because he had no impact up forward, and it was a move that was suggested on here loads of times. It's interesting that after only a handful of games back people are suggesting maybe he'd be a good fit up forward again.

 

[goreds]

I'm finding the amount of people suggesting McGovern to the forwardline curious. The whole reason he was moved back was because he had no impact up forward, and it was a move that was suggested on here loads of times. It's interesting that after only a handful of games back people area suggesting maybe he'd be a good fit up forward again.

Puzzling…

 

[Earls Smother]

I'm finding the amount of people suggesting McGovern to the forwardline curious. The whole reason he was moved back was because he had no impact up forward, and it was a move that was suggested on here loads of times. It's interesting that after only a handful of games back people area suggesting maybe he'd be a good fit up forward again.

Yep.

Apparently we are moving Gov, Boyd and Young to the forward line. I don't think "curious" quite covers it.