List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[Portology]

Will Snelling would be borderline best 22. He would be available in the mid season draft. Its hard to know what you are trying to achieve with the list because of finals are scary, depth players are terrible hinkley.

He's no Mac'n'Cheese.

But how's his defensive pressure?

Hayward? Currently executing a good forward press on his bank balance.

 

[Orange crush]

The Crows and Power might have to stump up $800,000 a year - or more - to lure Harry Perryman out of western Sydney.(Tiser)

I just don’t see clubs offering that money ….. we’ve offered 650k I believe

 

[Bevoman]

Hayward is a fine player, but even discounting the outrageous salary, Hayward is just another "not quite good enough for a midfielder so we will play him HFF". Yeah, he'd be nice depth and could contribute a bit but we need genuine small forwards with natural forward craft. Unfortunately there's just not a lot of them out there which are gettable - Pickett would be the dream, but maybe a Jesse Motlop or Ben Ainsworth could fill that gap for the time being.

If, if, if he leaves the Swans he will be heading to Victoria where the Blues are throwing buckest of money around.

 

[all seeing eye]

I just don’t see clubs offering that money ….. we’ve offered 650k I believe

Under new agreement 800k is the new 650k.

 

[Blinky Nyland]

Just looking at the 2019 draft.

25 Mead

26 Will Day

We could have screwed Sydney right over but really there's only a couple of players at the back end of that draft you'd get excited about.
He's around the mark if you redo that draft.

2020 draft

Lockie at 16

Gulden at 32 the bargain

The back end of that draft falls right away Maurice Rioli at 51 maybe.

Redo that draft and it's not far off either.

Will Day went at 13 in the 2019 draft. One before, Bergman. Rivers at 32 would have been a good get or Warner at 39.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

With Carlton offering 6 years to Hayward should we try and pry Motlop loose?

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Crows and Power might have to stump up $800,000 a year - or more - to lure Harry Perryman out of western Sydney.(Tiser)

FMD. $800k for a good ordinary footballer is crazy. Lets do the maths and see how crazy.

CBA runs out in 2027, Tassie coming in, in 2028, Cash component of TV/Media deal increases in cash by $20m-$25m a year, over 2027 amount, each year until deal ends in 2031, but most of that is going to Tassie as their annual distribution, not some huge increase in the salary cap.

Although 2025 increase in media deal over 2024 is about $75m and I reckon the salary cap will increase by about 15% in 2025 over 2024. On face value it still looks like a ridiculous amount to offer.

My guess re salary cap increase is that the 2023 salary cap did increase by 10% over 2022, then 2% in 2023, 2% in 2024, 15% in 2025 and 2% in each of 2026 and 2027.

That would take 2022 average of $387k to $519.5k in 2027 as per below info.

That means about $45m of that $75m increase in media cash in 2025, will be distributed to the 18 clubs to pay for the increase in salary cap and then annual distributions increase each year on the previous year by a $7m extra distribution to the clubs in 2026 and 2027.

So if Perryman is getting $500k this year at GWS ( I reckon he isn't worth that amount but lets assume its correct) and GWS offer him just the salary cap increase, he would be getting $575k in 2025, then $585k in 2026 and $600k in 2027

So to offer him $800k for 3 years in this scenario, then a club would be paying a $640k premium to get him out of western Sydney over those 3 years. That's not a great premium to pay if you reckon he is worth getting paid $500k in 2024.

If you offer him $800k over 5 years and the cap goes up by 2% in 2028 and 2029, then the premium is approaching $1million.

Below is what the AFL announced with AFLPA September last year about will happen with player salaries.

Landmark joint Collective Bargaining Agreement reached

The long-term five-year deal provides certainty for the industry from 2023-2027

www.afl.com.au

AFL

• 10 per cent increase in base pay in 2023.
• 37 per cent increase in pay over the life of the deal.
• Average player salary to increase from $387,000 in 2022 to $519,000 in 2027.
• Three-year contracts for first round draftees.
• Regulated payments for third year players.

 

[Long live PAFC]

FMD. $800k for a good ordinary footballer is crazy. Lets do the maths and see how crazy.

CBA runs out in 2027, Tassie coming in, in 2028, Cash component of TV/Media deal increases in cash by $20m-$25m a year, over 2027 amount, each year until deal ends in 2031, but most of that is going to Tassie as their annual distribution, not some huge increase in the salary cap.

Although 2025 increase in media deal over 2024 is about $75m and I reckon the salary cap will increase by about 15% in 2025 over 2024. On face value it still looks like a ridiculous amount to offer.

My guess re salary cap increase is that the 2023 salary cap did increase by 10% over 2022, then 2% in 2023, 2% in 2024, 15% in 2025 and 2% in each of 2026 and 2027.

That would take 2022 average of $387k to $519.5k in 2027 as per below info.

That means about $45m of that $75m increase in media cash in 2025, will be distributed to the 18 clubs to pay for the increase in salary cap and then annual distributions increase each year on the previous year by a $7m extra distribution to the clubs in 2026 and 2027.

So if Perryman is getting $500k this year at GWS ( I reckon he isn't worth that amount but lets assume its correct) and GWS offer him just the salary cap increase, he would be getting $575k in 2025, then $585k in 2026 and $600k in 2027

So to offer him $800k for 3 years in this scenario, then a club would be paying a $640k premium to get him out of western Sydney over those 3 years. That's not a great premium to pay if you reckon he is worth getting paid $500k in 2024.

If you offer him $800k over 5 years and the cap goes up by 2% in 2028 and 2029, then the premium is approaching $1million.

Below is what the AFL announced with AFLPA September last year about will happen with player salaries.

Landmark joint Collective Bargaining Agreement reached

The long-term five-year deal provides certainty for the industry from 2023-2027

www.afl.com.au

AFL

• 10 per cent increase in base pay in 2023.
• 37 per cent increase in pay over the life of the deal.
• Average player salary to increase from $387,000 in 2022 to $519,000 in 2027.
• Three-year contracts for first round draftees.
• Regulated payments for third year players.

Solid analysis.

FAs are always overpaid - that’s the nature of shaking loose the player. Essentially what you’ve outlined is that we would be paying an extra year, without getting the year. It’s probably what it takes to get him to leave his current circumstances.

The real aspect is how able are we to finesse the cap

 

[Jonts]

I'd rather give Hayward a bit more cash then get perryman

 

[JimmyBC]

We could recruit Superman and it wouldn't make an iota of difference to this clown car.

 

[Long live PAFC]

I'd rather give Hayward a bit more cash then get perryman

Why’s that?

 

[philthy05]

Realistically Burgoyne has put his hand up as a starting winger for us, and so has Bergman. We just had sinn and Lorenz rack up 29 and 26d and showing signs and we’ve got any number of players who can run through the wing if we desired (Houston Farrell butters rozee)


And we’ve got Rome Burgoyne coming in the draft.


Perryman as a winger / hbf would be a nice addition, we should absolutely be putting our hat in the ring… for the right price.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Realistically Burgoyne has put his hand up as a starting winger for us, and so has Bergman. We just had sinn and Lorenz rack up 29 and 26d and showing signs and we’ve got any number of players who can run through the wing if we desired (Houston Farrell butters rozee)


And we’ve got Rome Burgoyne coming in the draft.


Perryman as a winger / hbf would be a nice addition, we should absolutely be putting our hat in the ring… for the right price.

Hopefully Jase cements the spot, but he has 20 games to his belt and is no certainty. His brother, who knows. Sinn has just got on the park, how long for? Lorenz is a late pick, you know the odds of anyone outside the top 25 picks making a hundred games.

We are thin on depth. Perryman is first 18 player and would mean players like Burton, Jones, Williams, etc have to earn their spots. He is a solid defender and seems to hold his nerve in big games.

800k is overs and hopefully that’s not what we or anyone else is putting up but you do have to pay overs to shake FAs loose.

Perryman and Hayward are both starting 18 players in good systems. Play in areas we need to strengthen. Cost nothing in trade capital. Both are young.

In the case of these two, the ‘right price’ is likely to be a lot more than we are comfortable paying but would just have to pay.

 

[davesnothere]

Let's say GWS have put 650k over 5 years in front of him?

You probably wouldn't look at 700ks to move unless you didn't want to be at GWS keeping in mind that the ATO is taking a fair swipe at it?

To actually get Perryman to leave what looks to be a pretty good environment to Port it's easy to see 750k on the table to make it happen?

He's the ideal replacement for Boak but I don't see it happening for any less.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Let's say GWS have put 650k over 5 years in front of him?

You probably wouldn't look at 700ks to move unless you didn't want to be at GWS keeping in mind that the ATO is taking a fair swipe at it?

To actually get Perryman to leave what looks to be a pretty good environment to Port it's easy to see 750k on the table to make it happen?

He's the ideal replacement for Boak but I don't see it happening for any less.

Yea this is the issue.

Whats he worth?
Plus

What does it take to get him to leave a great side in the premiership window? A side that he has grown and developed with and contributed to? A side that he is valued at and is first 22 at?

Plus what does it take to get him to Port? A new city? New team?

Plus what does it take to out bid GWS and all of the other teams?

Same for Hayward?

These players are in demand. We’ve shown interest before in Perryman and, probably, Hayward. We don’t have trade capital or a good draft hand. Free agents are essential to our list build, whoever is in charge.

I imagine we have factored this in at a list management level. Guys like Wines, Dixon, Boak, will all be on less money. The cap has gone up. We have some contracts to sort/extend, like Bergman, but generally the key pieces are on long term contracts. A third of our list are likely to be on the minimum ie recent draftees, Evans, McKenzie. We also have seen some of these contracts be smoothed out towards the end of the deal, ie 5 years at 800, where the final year becomes 650 but they get an extra 200 spread over some additional years.

We should very much be willing to pay for free agents this year.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Will Day went at 13 in the 2019 draft. One before, Bergman. Rivers at 32 would have been a good get or Warner at 39.

Chad Warner at 39 is one of the best pieces in drafting for a while.

Considering they got Gulden through the Academy at 32 and also Campbell and then Logan McDonald early, they kept it rolling along.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

In terms of trading for players, I would sit and see what we have with the upcoming players.

Obviously if a really good player falls into our laps, fair enough, like a young gun type. I would personally prefer to wait to splash cash until Hinkley leaves and the new coach can work with the List Management team to work out his needs for his team. I doubt that is going to happen though.

For example, if Hinkley is gone at the end of the year and Carr comes in, he might want a hard nosed midfielder not a winger type. I would leave options open but that is good business and we don't do that.

So basically I am waiting to see what a good coach can do with the players and then use our resources to fill out the rest of the 23.

 

[Long live PAFC]

In terms of trading for players, I would sit and see what we have with the upcoming players.

Obviously if a really good player falls into our laps, fair enough, like a young gun type. I would personally prefer to wait to splash cash until Hinkley leaves and the new coach can work with the List Management team to work out his needs for his team. I doubt that is going to happen though.

For example, if Hinkley is gone at the end of the year and Carr comes in, he might want a hard nosed midfielder not a winger type. I would leave options open but that is good business and we don't do that.

So basically I am waiting to see what a good coach can do with the players and then use our resources to fill out the rest of the 23.

Fair enough.

I don’t want another ‘toy’ to prop Ken up and then be wasted either.

And you’re spot on that the game plan may change.

However, list management takes place over multiple years.

Soldo was in the sights before last trade season, so was Ratugolea. We’ve had interest in Perryman for awhile.

I suspect, with all the talk of us seeking approval to trade our future first, that we have a target lined up.

The other aspect is our list issues are fairly obvious, although I’m with you that Carr might want and port really need a real competitive bastard, hard nosed, win at all costs midfielder.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Fair enough.

I don’t want another ‘toy’ to prop Ken up and then be wasted either.

And you’re spot on that the game plan may change.

However, list management takes place over multiple years.

Soldo was in the sights before last trade season, so was Ratugolea. We’ve had interest in Perryman for awhile.

I suspect, with all the talk of us seeking approval to trade our future first, that we have a target lined up.

The other aspect is our list issues are fairly obvious, although I’m with you that Carr might want and port really need a real competitive bastard, hard nosed, win at all costs midfielder.

Yeah, a new coach is going to implement a new gameplan and certain players will not be compatible with that gameplan so there does need to be some wiggle room. Coaches also have types that they like so even a good player can find himself on the outer or with less of a role.

But yeah, you're right list management is a long game and if they've been in the ear of Perryman for a while, fair enough, just as long as you don't overpay for him. I'm sure we started on Horne-Francis before the draft.

I just don't want to overpay unless it is a real need.

But if we get Perryman for a bit over I'm fine enough with it. Sounds contradictory but there are a few moving parts there.

 

[longdonkey]

With Carlton offering 6 years to Hayward should we try and pry Motlop loose?

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Is that prying him loose when Carlton delists him?

 

[Jonts]

Why’s that?

Match winner v role player

Don't overpay for role players, get the ones wanting more opportunity instead

 

[all seeing eye]

Interesting fact brought up by Jimmy Bartel whose insights are good, is that we rate dead last in the league for managing defensive ground balls and have been continualy cut up by oppo smalls. He has advocated the return of dbj to defense as part of a quick part fix. However in terms of FA recruiting I would be looking to prise Blake Hardwick

15

Blake Hardwick

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.1

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

264.7

4star

D

13.8

3star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.7

3star

MG

264.7

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.4

4star

out of the Hawks. At 26 can play both ends, wouldnt be on massive money ,might be gettable. You cant trust Burton, Farrel or Jones in that role.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I wouldn't mind seeing Nick Moore get a chance. Yes he's a bit rustic as a footballer, but he doesn't have this "I played in underage footy with these guys and am mates with all of them" mentality, he's tough, rugged, a good size, has talent and a good dash of mongrel, and plays to win. His fitness levels are good, he knows where the goals are, he tackles like a machine and he wants to win. He is miles better than any number of smaller mid types that we have tried to turn into forwards for years. And he will biff someone if they annoy him.

 

[wayb2912]

I believe that we will try to trade our future first for Lukosious

On PHN110 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[longdonkey]

I believe that we will try to trade our future first for Lukosious

On PHN110 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I've got a little question about that. In our team where would Lukosious fit into that system.

And I am talking about full Hinkleyball. BTW if we could get him for a future first you'd do it every day of the week.