LIVE Federal Election Coverage 2016

[Power Raid]

at what point does Bill Shorten concede defeat?

should he do so now? or should he try and create as much uncertainty as possible to validate a position over the next twelve months?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Thats not what happened when Medibank got "privatised" or Telstra for that matter.

There is no physical company called Medicare to float, it certainly doesn't make profits. Privatise in this case means transferring costs from public purse to private (ie user pays)

 

[Crankyhawk]

at what point does Bill Shorten concede defeat?

should he do so now? or should he try and create as much uncertainty as possible to validate a position over the next twelve months?

Waiting for the bolts etc to white ant and split the liberal party further (with bolts massive sook and melt, honestly less composure than a typical bigfooty troll getting called out). But yeah agree he should concede result soon.

 

[Power Raid]

Waiting for the bolts etc to white ant and split the liberal party further (with bolts massive sook and melt, honestly less composure than a typical bigfooty troll getting called out). But yeah agree he should concede result soon.

bolt is a f wit

I can't believe anyone is interested in what he has to say. he is a nut job, only there to wind up other nut jobs.

 

[Power Raid]

There is no physical company called Medicare to float, it certainly doesn't make profits. Privatise in this case means transferring costs from public purse to private (ie user pays)

The only bit of medicare that can be privatised is the administration and IT systems.

 

[nobbyiscool]

The only bit of medicare that can be privatised is the administration and IT systems.

And yet people talk like handing over our government records and medical records to a contractor - and paying that contractor for the "privilege" - isn't a big deal.

 

[romeohwho]

Fo the past 10-20 years, the green vote has largely stagnated. I'm not sure there is much to suggest there is 'growing relevance'.

Except in 1993, when they began, they got 1.8% of the votes and no senators. Now they have 10% and senators in each state. Pretty good for stagnation.

 

[Power Raid]

And yet people talk like handing over our government records and medical records to a contractor - and paying that contractor for the "privilege" - isn't a big deal.

I'm of an age where renewing your car licence required taking an entire day off work. perhaps we should be thankful we don't accept that but we shouldn't forget that either.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The only bit of medicare that can be privatised is the administration and IT systems.

But how would you make money from it?

 

[telsor]

Except in 1993, when they began, they got 1.8% of the votes and no senators. Now they have 10% and senators in each state. Pretty good for stagnation.

2016 9.79 (thus far)
2013 8.65
2010 11.76
2007 7.79
2004 7.19

In the context of having the potential to assume power (and thus have people need to be interested in their full range of policies which is what was being discussed), picking up ~2.5% in 12 years is pretty stagnant. Call me in another 100 years or so and I'll start to care about their economic policy.

BTW, that's the HoR vote, where they'd pick up a fair few protest votes because in most seats they're no chance. In the Senate, they're getting 8.46%

 

[romeohwho]

2016 9.79 (thus far)
2013 8.65
2010 11.76
2007 7.79
2004 7.19

In the context of having the potential to assume power (and thus have people need to be interested in their full range of policies which is what was being discussed), picking up ~2.5% in 12 years is pretty stagnant. Call me in another 100 years or so and I'll start to care about their economic policy.

BTW, that's the HoR vote, where they'd pick up a fair few protest votes because in most seats they're no chance. In the Senate, they're getting 8.46%

2001 4.96
98 2.14
96 1.74
Don't think I have suggested they will assume power. Your comment was they aren't getting better at what the do, which I disagreed with and seems to me that the data bears that out.
Suspect you'll find the major parties don't have a lot of growth in their vote either. Minor parties continue to take votes from them and most of those parties are far less sensible than the greens.
They will continue to help shape our political landscape and that is a good thing. Not sure why you feel the need to be so dismissive of a party that has quite reasonable policies.

 

[Underdog]

But how would you make money from it?

I was under the impression that they were looking to outsource areas such as IT to scale easier and operate more efficiently? Pretty common practice with government entities.

 

[jerry springer]

Just how many people do you think are in the ADF? And more to the point, how many do you think are deployed where they can't vote normally?

Just for people's info here are 500 grunts here in Hawaii from townsville. They all got to vote normally on the 29th June at a booth set up in pearl harbor. those votes should be counted by now. Plus there is a major ex going on south Australia with probably another 1000 diggers from townsville involved

 

[Blueboys11]

There is no physical company called Medicare to float, it certainly doesn't make profits. Privatise in this case means transferring costs from public purse to private (ie user pays)

And that's what made the whole Medicare privatisation claim such a fraud. Shorten knew exactly that when voters hear privatisation, they think selling public assets. Voters hate that and immediately rail against it. Shorten knew full well that the only thing that was looking to be outsourced was the back office payment system which needs updating and is now going to have to be done by the government at a higher cost than what could of been achieved by a 3rd party specialist.

The paying slightly more for healthcare lines were but a mere footnote to the privatisation headline

 

[Juddism]

seriously, 8 days on, still seats to be decided...just call the ****ing thing and be done with it. I can't wait to see Malcolm get knifed by his own part because there is no way in hell they'll let him lead.

 

[telsor]

2001 4.96
98 2.14
96 1.74
Don't think I have suggested they will assume power. Your comment was they aren't getting better at what the do, which I disagreed with and seems to me that the data bears that out.
Suspect you'll find the major parties don't have a lot of growth in their vote either. Minor parties continue to take votes from them and most of those parties are far less sensible than the greens.
They will continue to help shape our political landscape and that is a good thing. Not sure why you feel the need to be so dismissive of a party that has quite reasonable policies.

Seems we're arguing at cross purposes here. I didn't say anything of the sort.

 

[Crankyhawk]

And that's what made the whole Medicare privatisation claim such a fraud. Shorten knew exactly that when voters hear privatisation, they think selling public assets. Voters hate that and immediately rail against it. Shorten knew full well that the only thing that was looking to be outsourced was the back office payment system which needs updating and is now going to have to be done by the government at a higher cost than what could of been achieved by a 3rd party specialist.

The paying slightly more for healthcare lines were but a mere footnote to the privatisation headline

I think that the public were actually more concerned about paying more for health and saw this as "privatisation " rather than the outsourcing sense.

 

[Blueboys11]

I think that the public were actually more concerned about paying more for health and saw this as "privatisation " rather than the outsourcing sense.

They were worried about paying more because they thought it was being privatised thus turned into a money making entity for the new owner.

Obviously totally improbable, but majority of voters aren't smart or engaged enough to know this

 

[Gough]

Still waiting for my $550, two years after the Carbon Price was lifted...

 

[Watchyourwaite]

For me, the concern about Medicare being privatised means that we all need health insurance, and will head in the opposite direction to even America...

A lot of people get very rich over the suffering of others.

 

[Gough]

Reports that Dutton will be moved into a more senior role suggests lessons haven't really been learned. The election was a repudiation of the Abbott-era Liberal Party. If they give Turnbull a chance to put his own mark on the party, he may succeed, if he swings right they will struggle.

 

[Extreme_Bandit]

I was under the impression that they were looking to outsource areas such as IT to scale easier and operate more efficiently? Pretty common practice with government entities.

Wasn't even that drastic. My understanding was they were outsourcing the implementation of a new payment system. Once the system was built it would be run by Medicare.

Its barely even privatisation. It's cheaper for a government to hire a company who already have the knowledge to design and build one of these large systems then it would be for government to build up that capability themselves and then build it. There would be no difference in functionality of a system built by a 3rd party or built by government (assuming they don't give the poject to IBM).

I don't think most people realise that a lot of systems for Banks, Some Government departments, Airlines, mining companies etc etc are all built by 3rd parties.

 

[nobbyiscool]

I was under the impression that they were looking to outsource areas such as IT to scale easier and operate more efficiently? Pretty common practice with government entities.

The notion that the for-profit private sector can operate more cheaply and efficiently than the not-for-profit government sector is a fallacy - it is an outright lie on the part of the "small government" conservatives who would choose to see everything run for profit.

You only have to look at the complete failure of the UK's "Big Society" model to see that it doesn't work - plenty of local examples as well.

 

[Subprime]

There is no physical company called Medicare to float, it certainly doesn't make profits. Privatise in this case means transferring costs from public purse to private (ie user pays)

I would have thought 'privatise' means what it has come to mean in ordinary usage, i.e. the selling off or floating of a publicly owned asset. Medibank Private and Telstra being the 2 major ones that spring to my mind.

It certainly doesn't mean charging a co-payment because the word co-payment is available and well understood, due to the 2014 Budget, if that's what is meant.

As for privatising Medicare, I'm sure it could be done, John Howard could have done it when he controlled both houses from 2004 to 2007 but he didn't.

Medicare is a massive payments system on one side and the Medicare Levy funds it. So the back office goes to a specialist provider of back office services and they get paid by the Commonwealth.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

But how would you make money from it?

The same way other outsourcing deals are made. The outsourcer promises better management systems and to do more with less, then ships the jobs off to India or the Philippines. This is especially useful with the public service, as it keeps the government at arms length from the decision.

The thing is DHS is already undergoing a $2b IT modernisation. The massive backlog in student claims processing at the start of the year was one result of the modernisation.

Disclaimer: I am currently working for a consulting firm on a DHS site, though have only heard a little third hand on the Austudy debacle.