Lovett to stand trial over rape allegation

[TRAWP]

Well mate, have a look around there was a fact in a paper a year ago about this.

95% of rape chargers against sporting figures were make believe. Later claimed they did it for the money and the fame. It's life when you're at that level.

 

[Supernova]

double

 

[Briggzy]

innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Absolutely correct, there have been previous instances, recently in the NRL IIRC where the accuser of rape was found out to have lied. Mind you, the girl could be telling the truth, hopefully more evidence is coming to light to prove who is telling the truth, however I think from the get go, the support has been well and truly behind the accuser (girl) in this and the situation has become more of a guilty until proven innocent situation.

 

[Radical Roo]

He is immune to racism because he is Aboriginal? That is a pretty absurd comment.

If Lovett avoids conviction he will be free to play, will someone take him? Depends on if they think he can still play. He could probably go to a club like Hawthorn for the cost of a spot on their list and he could be the difference between some coaches keeping their job or not, the coaches will want to pick anyone who they think will get the job done.

Clubs that are not in the mix will likely avoid him.

He is still innocent until proven guilty, if he escapes conviction I am sure there would be a few clubs tempted to give him a shot if he plays well in the local comp.

Why is that absurd? when was the last time u saw or hear an aborigine get accused for racism?

And why do you think Lovett will get off, where there's smoke, there's fire. Why didn't Riewolt get accused for rape why was Lovett accused, is that because he was indeginous Aus, r u saying the girl is a racist? Of course not.

Why would and should any AFL club take him, he's reputation is already ruined, he carries too much baggage and he's not that good of a player for the problem he carries.

Also what would players of other club think of him, people would think whether or not they are playing with a rapist? Should i invite him to a party where girlfriends of other players are present?

Also what would the club supporters think of Lovett, whether he is guilty or not, rapist is probabaly the first world that comes to the mind for most people. Take me for instance, we NM will never take him regardless of him being guilty or not.

To me Lovett carries excessive baggage, the perception of him being a rapist is already enough for me to make a judgement. Lovett was given an great opportunity to make it big at AFL, his lack of self control cost him big time, everyone's given on opportunity, you screw it, you pay for it.

 

[mysainters]

I totally agree but for completely different reasons. What i find disturbing about the thread is how so many people are so quick to play judge jury and executioner and finding Lovett guilty until proven innocent instead of the other way around. You're all so willing (especially St Kilda fans) to take the girls words as gospel and won't dare even for one second contemplate she's not telling the truth and at the same time you're every bit as adament that Lovett is blatantly lying.

You blokes with the holier than thou attitude are so quick to ridicule and mock others who are trying to be objective by looking at BOTH sides of the story and essentially treating the accused exactly what the law states and that's innocent until PROVEN guilty.

I agree a lot has to play out yet, so we agree, and this thread is disturbing on many different levels.

 

[Radical Roo]

Innocent until proven guilty, baaaaaahh, it's ridiculous. This is how you let criminals escape or drag cases for too long and you allow criminals on the loose.

You rather kill 1000 innocent than to let 1 guilty get away.

 

[Thommo 42]

The girls testimony is a bit inconsistent.

On one hand she says to Jason Gram "I feel like a ****, I thought it was you"

On the other hand, she says "I was asleep and woke up and he was f#cking the sh#t out of me and I kept saying 'no' "

She mustn't think much of poor old Jason Gram if she thought it was him that started 'f#cking the shit out of her' when she was asleep and didn't stop when she said 'no'.

 

[its just sporn mum]

Based on the ever-reliable herald suns account he's goooooone!
I dont think A-Love is gonna get off a second time.

 

[IluvHarvey]

I don't want to make judgements.
Too early.
The only comment I will make is that reading articles, Saints fans should be happy to have guys like McQualter at the club.
Seems like a decent bloke.

I am. He is coming across throughout this whole thing as a very switched on individual. Good work Mini!

 

[Knight Ryders]

Based on the ever-reliable herald suns account he's goooooone!
I dont think A-Love is gonna get off a second time.

That's an oxy-moron.

 

[The Big League]

I'd be interested to see the correlation between bigfooty posters and lawyers. It seems everyone is a legal expert who should also be chief of recruiting and a match day coach.

Where do you guys find the time?

 

[AFaiL]

He has pleaded not guilty and will stand trial in September. Could this have an effect on St.Kilda's finals campaign? A few players will have to give evidence...

Directions hearing in september, trial who knows when but wont be until 2011.

 

[TRAWP]

I'd be interested to see the correlation between bigfooty posters and lawyers. It seems everyone is a legal expert who should also be chief of recruiting and a match day coach.

Where do you guys find the time?

Hmm at midnight i normally have my sleep and awake at 5am lol

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Mybe when she said "I thought it was you" to Gram, it did not imply she was OK for Gram to screw her, but she thought it was initially Gram who took advantage of her, not Lovett, then things became clearer.


Off topic a little, Wasn't Jason Gram going out with that super hot lass that was all over the Brownlow coverage a few years ago? Is that over?

 

[Knight Ryders]

Reading between the lines and articles, there is only one person who knows for certain what happened and that is Andrew. Unless he comes out and admits rape, I can see this case going nowhere.

Does anyone else wonder why Gram and the girl's supposed friend didn't question what was happening for the time period that Lovett was also missing?

 

[Falchoon]

Does anyone else wonder why Gram and the girl's supposed friend didn't question what was happening for the time period that Lovett was also missing?

Maybe they believed he was in the toilet, maybe they even believed he as a grown adult didn't need babysitting?

Who knows

 

[HarryTiger]

Now lets say,

Lovett admits sex took place. It's a given.
She admits she consented to sex, thinking though it was someone else.
Lovett contests that he in no way attempted to decieve her regarding his identity.
Court accepts she wasn't too drunk to give informed consent. (I reckon she wasn't - given she was up and about after it "black **** pumped the **** out of me")

With the 3rd point usually when these cases arise the instigator has attempted to decieve the victim e.g. sneeking into a bedroom and pretending to be the boyfriend for instance.

Was it Lovett's responsibility to ensure that she knew it was him?

Further to above, is there an onus on her to confirm who is instigating sexual contact with herself if she does indeed consider that a matter of importance? You'd think that wouldn't be hard, like turn your head around and look at him!

If you consent to sex not exactly assured who is doing then it's still consent (you know you don't know). Like if you go to a free for all orgy you can't claim rape because in the middle of a pack someone touched you inappropriately, so I don't think "I didn't know who it was" can always cut it as a rape excuse.

I'm interested to see how this matter pans out. Doubt though that finer points of law as discussed above will allow him to beat the wrap given the sexual bias that exists in courts today.

I'd be interested to see the correlation between bigfooty posters and lawyers. It seems everyone is a legal expert who should also be chief of recruiting and a match day coach.

Where do you guys find the time?

Don't project your own lack of understanding onto others. Many of these issues aren't rocket science and can be discussed by the knowledgable common man.

 

[AFaiL]

Sounds like he had sex with her, she was up for it but thought it was Gram??

And when she realised it wasn't who she thought it was, lost it?

Yep sounds that way doesn't it. Surely that is her fault if that's the case.

Sounds a likely explaination to me. I think the fact she was by several reports, completely poleaxed. Will actually count very far to Lovetts defence. I'm confident he will get cleared.

Rape charges in general are very very hard to prove.... usually it one persons says this happens and the other person says that happened and therefore very hard to prove without witnesses etc.

Also the fact she was totally drunk does not help.. they will use this against her.

If that is the case, I can't see why the Saints could sack him over it. Yes yes I know there was other reasons, but it is pretty obvious this was the main reason. The whole event has made me respect the Saints even less, and it wasn't all that high before the incident.

This is pure gold.

6 months ago, the moronic masses on BF had Lovett guily. He wasa filthy rapist who deserved to go.

Now, after his defense plants the seeds, and the story of them all being drunk (which was clearly obvious) comes out, suddenly a lot of people are feeling for him, laying blame on the girl and defending him to a degree because there is an increased chance he will go to jail.

Just goes to show how stupid your typical person is.

Unfortunately his trail will do more than just derailing a finals campaign. Lovett's issue will put unnecessary stain on the reputation of the entire St Kilda football club. Other than the Lovett rape case, there have been two previous cases of sex related cases with the Milne, Montagna incident as well as the football clinic teen pregnancy incident.

This does not help St Kilda and its stakeholders any help at all. First it gives people a bad impression of its recruitment department of not doing enough research. Correct, they should have used the "rapist probability" predictor] Second, it's the social attitude to St Kilda and their players. Women will think twice bout dating st kilda players. Future players may not want to go St Kilda. Other players might think twice about receiving players coming from St Kilda in case he is a sex offender.

St Kilda need to be quick and decisive in cutting out Lovett. Stipulate Lovett has nothing to do with St Kilda. Ditch him now. [Um, he was sacked months ago. Are you normal??] After this year reveal the main culprit in the footy clinic and offer him to the police. Get rid of Milne and Montagna. Be ruthless, be decisive, cut out the cancerous part of the club and start anew. [ROFL. I like you, you're funny. What "culprit"? There was no crime. I would love to meet you, you re truly an incredible special individual. I'm sure i've donated to causes that help you out]

If St Kilda doesn't act decisively, they are in serious trouble of becoming misunderstood by the public. Take me for instance, i will never allow my kids to hang out with any saints player. [Oh, yes, because there are footballers lining up to hang out with your kids] I will never allow my sons to be drafted or traded to St Kilda. [Please post their names, would love to keep track and see if they get drafted by anyone] I will certainly not associate with any St Kilda players.

Does it hurt when you think?

 

[AFaiL]

The Saints found a way to sack him because the witnesses who will be called would have passed on the actual events to the club. Saints had no other option and are within their rights to boot him. There could be problems if he is found not guilty, but I would think you'd see a civil action if that's the case.

id say no becuase they have already settled on his termination.

 

[AFaiL]

I think that's fairly close to the way it happened. Here's another article:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...lovett-rape-case/story-e6frf7kx-1225903379187

"He f...ed the s... out of me. I feel like a ****. I thought it was you. It was the dark guy. I had no interest in him whatsoever."

Certainly sounds like she was awake. Who knows, this could be a race issue. She thought it was Gram, but didn't realise she was screwing a "dark guy". When she realised, that made her "feel like a ****". It's almost like she's saying that screwing a "dark guy" makes you a ****.

I wonder if you shared similar opinions on the matter 6 months ago, or just sank the boots in?

 

[AFaiL]

It will be a massive distraction for the St Kilda footy club. This is a rape trial, not a trivial speeding offence.

Lovett's lawyers will cross-examine the living daylights out of Gram, McQualter and everyone else who was there that night. No doubt the examination will lead to Gram and co. admitting to be severely drunk that night and getting up to some type of questionable behaviour.

When you're going for the flag the last thing you need is a front page news spread stating your players got plastered and shacked up with multiple women in one night. Sure, we all know it happens all the time with footy players....but you don't want that kind of heat leading up to a final.

St Kilda would be shitting themselves right now, and so they should be. They should be planning some serious damage control right now, cause it's going to hit the fan very soon.

------

From the extract's of the committals in the article, Lovett is in some deep doo doo. Sleep and being highly intoxicated vitiates any consent the victim gave prior to or after the act. You simply cannot have sex with someone if they are asleep or very drunk...under ANY circumstance.

The fact that McQualter was sober and an eye witness means Lovett's lawyers are going to have a very hard time getting him off. It looks very likely that this guy is going behind bars for the best part of a decade.

Ah, the old Internet Lawyers.

1) McQualter was not an eye witness. Do you even know what that means? Look it up. He came to the house after the fact.

2) It's pretty widely known they were all drunk

3) I love the old "it's gonna his the fan" soon remarks. It shows you have no clue and just like the scaremonger.

 

[Drapatch]

Who is the girls ex-boyfriend?

States he is a fooballer and turned upp to the apartment?

Its says on the news sites that he cnat be named, so i assume the same goes for the forums

- HOWEVER, some hints to a jumper number and team wouldnt hurt?

 

[Radical Roo]

id say no becuase they have already settled on his termination.

Lovett should never have been recruited by St Kilda in the first place.

 

[AFaiL]

Who is the girls ex-boyfriend?

States he is a fooballer and turned upp to the apartment?

Its says on the news sites that he cnat be named, so i assume the same goes for the forums

- HOWEVER, some hints to a jumper number and team wouldnt hurt?

I know a guy with a giant forehead, in a completly unrelated matter.

 

[AFaiL]

Lovett should never have been recruited by St Kilda in the first place.

By the same token, I assume your opinion is that Carey should never have been recruited by the Roos?