so given that, Luke should be worth significantly less, he’s a lesser player…or Lachie should’ve got us a shitload more…
little from column A, little from column B
Traded Luke Jackson [Traded with #44 and #67 to Fremantle for #13, F1 and F2]
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so given that, Luke should be worth significantly less, he’s a lesser player…or Lachie should’ve got us a shitload more…
little from column A, little from column B
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Lachie Neale was in his prime at 25 years old. Luke Jackson is still 20 and a high rated prospect. Neale and Jackson are not comparable in a trade.
At 20 years old Jackson is ahead of other ruckman when they were 20, Gawn, Grundy, Sean Darcy ect…
Tom Boyd and Jake Lever are the most comparable player I can think off the top of my head. High rated key position prospects.
Yeah, again pretty similar to the deals I gave. Two firsts and a third with the player and a second coming back.
Same, same but different.
Too many unique factors in the Boyd deal. Million dollar contract, Griffin was captain of the Bullies at the time?, involved an expansion club where values always seem a bit weird.
Tulip
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I presume by Lachie you mean Lachie Weller?
Neale.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Off you go
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Lever and Boyd were offered big contracts, very similar to Jackson now.
Were values weird? Pick 6 and ageing captain Griffen.
So top 10 pick and Fyfe sounds about right for Jackson
Lever and Boyd were offered big contracts, very similar to Jackson now.
Were values weird? Pick 6 and ageing captain Griffen.
So top 10 pick and Fyfe sounds about right for Jackson
Haha, stuck looking at outlier trades. I've given six trades now that support my thoughts so yeah there's that
Boyd was contracted. Bad example.Lever and Boyd were offered big contracts, very similar to Jackson now.
Were values weird? Pick 6 and ageing captain Griffen.
So top 10 pick and Fyfe sounds about right for Jackson
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
True, Jackson has won the rising star so probably worth more than Boyd anyway.
For me the the Tim Taranto trade and the Luke Jackson trade should be very similar.
Both OOC.m so no difference there.
LJ is a KPP and a RS winner, but Taranto is a B&F winner and a premium inside midfielder. I’d argue TT is the safer bet right now but LJ may have slightly more upside. There is a low chance of either being a bust, but 24 yo Taranto on a 7 year deal at Richmond is pretty safe in terms of the output they can expect. LJ could be better, but he could also be worse.
They are both in the realm of 2 first rounders with a second rounder back.
Both OOC.m so no difference there.
LJ is a KPP and a RS winner, but Taranto is a B&F winner and a premium inside midfielder. I’d argue TT is the safer bet right now but LJ may have slightly more upside. There is a low chance of either being a bust, but 24 yo Taranto on a 7 year deal at Richmond is pretty safe in terms of the output they can expect. LJ could be better, but he could also be worse.
They are both in the realm of 2 first rounders with a second rounder back.
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It's going to be interesting how Jackson's career pans out:
If Jackson fulfills his potential:
If Jackson fails to reach his potential:
If WCE's pick 2 doesn't make the afl grade:
If Jackson fulfills his potential:
- Freo fans in this forum were wrong on him.
- Wce fans missed an opportunity to get him.
- Dees fans devastated but were right in demanding full compensation for him.
If Jackson fails to reach his potential:
- Dees fans laughing
- Freo fans devastated
- WCE fans relieved.
If WCE's pick 2 doesn't make the afl grade:
- WCE fans devastated
- Freo fans laughing at wce's demise.
- Dees fans saying 'missed opportunity'/'I told you so'.
Absolutely incorrect.
At 20 Darcy was leading his ruck unit and averaging 33 hitouts a game while being one of the top few rucks in the league with elite hitout to advantage stats.
He also is not ahead of Grundy at 20, who was averaging more hitouts and showing glimpses of the elite ball finding ruck
Jackson is a very very good young player, but at the moment it’s hard to tell whether he will become an elite lead ruckman or just be a good utility / 2nd ruck
No doubt freo are going to be paying a premium to find out, but he is absolutely not better than Darcy and Grundy at the same age to to claim so is just revising history to suit your current purposes.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Disagree, other than Hitouts Jackson is by far a better player than the other 2. Grundy and Darcy were playing as number one ruckman while Jackson is playing 2nd fiddle to the All Australian ruckman. Of course he’s not going to have the hitout numbers of the other 2. Put Jackson as a number one ruck and his level of output would be far ahead of Grundy and Darcy as overall players. Hitout numbers are only one thing but Melbourne were a better centre clearance team with Jackson in the ruck over Gawn, only have to watch last years Grand Final to see this. His impact when in the ruck is already big.
Luke Jackson won the rising star award, Sean Darcy didn’t get a nomination.
Early this year before Jackson dropped in form some AFL media (not that I agreed) were claiming Jackson already a top 2-3 ruck in the league. No one would of put Grundy or Darcy anywhere near that high at that age.
Totally agree. Our 1st this year and next with Jackson and a pick coming back.
This is pretty meaningless, Andy Brayshaw didn't get a nomination for rising star, he was headed for one until gaff thought differently!
Sean Darcy could've got a nomination most games he played in his first two season, 14 touches, 40 hitouts on debut, 16 touches, 33 hitouts, 7 tackles and a goal in his 2nd game just a couple of examples.
Some media were also saying Jackson was worth $1.5m over 10 years, those people aren't list managers, they are people whose job it is for you to click on the link by making silly statements. Darcy imo was the best 1-2nd year ruck since Grundy.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Of course rising star nominations or even winning the award don’t dictate how good a players future can or can’t be. Just winning the award is a decent indicator of showing who was ahead at the same age.
One thing that makes Darcy a great player is his contested marking especially last year where he average 1.86 per game. But in his 3rd year he averaged 0.45. Luke Jackson this year averaged 1.16. At the stage of their careers Jackson is ahead.
Darcy and Grundy were better tap ruckman at the same age but overall players Jackson is ahead.
Tulip
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I get that lol, more we can’t judge trades by the false economises of either Lachie. Freo got screwed in one and did the screwing in the otjer
I'm a fan of Taranto but get off it. No way is Taranto worth as much as Jackson on the trade table. There's the key position tax, premiership player, rising star winner and only 20 years old. Freo are trading for Jackson largely on potential....and his potential is the best player in the comp.
Again, a post that is trying to rewrite history.
Darcy was one of the top couple of hitouts leaders in the league at 20. It’s beyond moronic to assert that Jackson is better at the same age and even dumber to suggest he would average more hitouts as a lone ruck than Darcy.
Jackson has one of the worst hitout win % in the league and his hitouts to advantage are miles below the better rucks.
Here’s proof
Jackson - 33.2% hitout win % 28.8 % hitout to advantage
Bailey Williams (west coast ruck that was absolutely blasted as shithouse by his own fans this year) - 35.9 % hitout win % 22.5 hitout to advantage %
(also Jackson is obviously pulling those numbers often going up against back up rucks and kfs playing as backup rucks)
This is Darcy’s numbers this season
53.4 % hitout win % 33.3 hitout to advantage %
No
Jackson is not better than Darcy or Grundy at the same age. It’s just 100% undeniable that it was a bad call to make.
Does this mean Jackson isn’t any good?
No. Not at all.
A player can be not better than 2 of the most elite young rucks coming through and still be a high level player.
I also think this shows that what I’ve said all along, that Jackson is a poor ruck at ruckwork, it’s the other stuff he shines at.
That's why I picked multiple trades. It's the Dees supporters picking one off random trades that support that they'll get more than what you'll actually get.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
No is rewriting history and no is suggesting Jackson would average more hitouts than Darcy at the same age, no one is disputing Darcy’s hitout numbers. I’ve never claimed Jackson has good ruckwork. You’re trying to manipulate what I’ve said.
I said put Jackson in the ruck and his level of output would be ahead of Darcy and Grundy as overall players at the same stage. Never said he’ll have more hitout numbers.
Darcy and Grundy were better at hitouts yes, but not as overall players. Max Gawn had hitout percentages similar to Darcy this year, but Melbourne’s midfield unit were a better centre clearance team with Jackson in the ruck especially in the first half of the year. Last years Grand Final showed the same thing, Gawn wins hitouts, Dogs win clearances, Jackson in the ruck and the Dees dominate clearances. A ruckmans impact can be more than just hitouts and this is where Jackson is so valuable.
Jackson’s impact and output has been limited by not being the number one ruck.
I’ve never claimed he has good ruckwork, but his extra body at ground level helps the team win clearances which is the goal when a ruck is trying to win hitouts.
Jackson was 5th in the league this year for ground ball gets from all ruckman, his personal clearance percentages are ahead of Darcy current season and not too far off Naitanui, Grundy and Gawn this year but far ahead of them when they were 20, his total clearance numbers are limited by not being the number one ruck. His marking ability is ahead of them ect..
Tap ruckwork Darcy and Grundy were ahead, no one is denying that, overall player Jackson is ahead. The rising star win is a suggestion of where Jackson is at as a player of his age
