Opinion Matthew Nicks: Adelaide's Coach (Part 3) - The Biggest Loser

[CrowBloke]

P.S. One other thing ... to the Nicks supporters who keep reminding us that he's such a good Coach that we attracted Dawson and Rankine (and the untried-for-us UNB and Cumming <== I'll bet Nicks'll knock the stuffing outta them soon enough)
+
Soligo (a gun, love him), Rachele (ostracized most unfairly over that silly no-teeth bs), Pedlar/Curtin (used badly by Nicks), Fogarty's improved etc.
With all that, we played worse in 2024 and dropped back to 15th. Do any of you wonder why?

Look no further than this ... Nicks .

 

[CrowBloke]

Sure there's probably some complacency from the oppo and the level does go up in finals.... but there's enough talent in the squad that isn't being maximised.

... yes, by Nicks.

 

[Cromulant]

... yes, by Nicks.

100%

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

A lot of our stars were in their prime in 2020

M. Crouch 25 years old
B. Crouch 26
Laird 26
Smith 28
Talia 28
Walker 29
Sloane 30
Lynch 29
Doedee 23
O'Brien 24
Milera 22

First round picks to work with: Fogarty, McAsey, Jones, McHenry, Gallucci

Nicks had that list and botched the season

Yes in previous years a bunch of players left, yes our depth was crap, yes we didn't have much youth coming through. But still. That list is not 0-13 start to the year level bad.

I'll agree with M Crouch, Laird, Smith, Tex and B Crouch even though he only played two thirds the season

Lynch was cooked, missed a 3rd of the season

Doedee, 9 games...

Milera played 2 games in 2020, are you actually including him?

Talia, played 14 games and people on here were calling for his retirement. Ended up his last season.

Sloane played 12 games, 2 thirds a season... and averaged 15 touches a game. Clearly in decline.

Obrien played 17 games. But he is and always has been a middling Ruck, not a star.

McAsey, Galluci, Jones, Mchenry useless... Fog too raw to impact much.

That list of names is not a 0-13 start, but we arent looking at that list from a career point of view. We are looking at that list at a specific point of time. That list with the amount of games they played, the level of cooked some players were at, and quality of the rest of the squad were absolutely a 0-13 team.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

We also let go Stengle , Atkins , Frampton, Kelly and Brad Crouch

All who were playing this year - thats how cooked they were

Stengle and B Crouch were cooked from drugs. The rest have been average at best players.

 

[Scorpus]

I'll agree with M Crouch, Laird, Smith, Tex and B Crouch even though he only played two thirds the season

Lynch was cooked, missed a 3rd of the season

Doedee, 9 games...

Milera played 2 games in 2020, are you actually including him?

Talia, played 14 games and people on here were calling for his retirement. Ended up his last season.

Sloane played 12 games, 2 thirds a season... and averaged 15 touches a game. Clearly in decline.

Obrien played 17 games. But he is and always has been a middling Ruck, not a star.

McAsey, Galluci, Jones, Mchenry useless... Fog too raw to impact much.

That list of names is not a 0-13 start, but we arent looking at that list from a career point of view. We are looking at that list at a specific point of time. That list with the amount of games they played, the level of cooked some players were at, and quality of the rest of the squad were absolutely a 0-13 team.

You're listing a bunch of blokes that played the majority of the season and labelling them cooked. Brad Crouch cooked from drugs? Like are you being serious here?

These are the guys that played most of the first 13 games

Laird (13)
Brown (13)
O'Brien (13)
Smith (12)
Keays (12)
M. Crouch (12)
Walker (11)
Lynch (11)
Talia (11)
Kelly (11)
Jones (10)
McAsey (10)
Murphy (10)
Doedee (9)
Seedsman (9)
B. Crouch (8)
Hartigan (8)
McHenry (8)

In the previous year we went 8-5 in the first 13 games. I've highlighted the guys that played most of those games in bold.

We had two of our three best midfielders playing most games, our two best half backs, our two key defenders, our best forward, our ruckman who would win the B&F - all of whom were there the previous year. Then we also added four first round picks, added Keays, retained some handy role players like Luke Brown...

...and you're suggesting that in the space of one season our entire playing list, most of which were under the age of 30, became completely cooked and historically bad?

I get that the list above is not amazing. It's not even that good. But we were last on the ladder by an absolute mile after round 13, 0 wins and a percentage of 55%. It was the worst result after round 13 since GWS in 2013 (0 wins, 51.4%) and no one has been worse since.

I'm sorry but you can't tell me with a straight face that being historically bad in those opening rounds was because our entire playing list, of which there were a bunch of experienced 25-30 year olds, all became cooked simultaneously in the space of one off season.

I'd say that our coaching group as a whole - which many at the time said was probably the worst ever assembled at AFL level - played a significant role in that diabolical season

 

[MRB37]

A lot of our stars were in their prime in 2020

M. Crouch 25 years old
B. Crouch 26
Laird 26
Smith 28
Talia 28
Walker 29
Sloane 30
Lynch 29
Doedee 23
O'Brien 24
Milera 22

First round picks to work with: Fogarty, McAsey, Jones, McHenry, Gallucci

Nicks had that list and botched the season

Yes in previous years a bunch of players left, yes our depth was crap, yes we didn't have much youth coming through. But still. That list is not 0-13 start to the year level bad.

We had a perfect storm of stuff go wrong that season that Nicks was probably just the cherry on top. Players who didn't train hard during the shutdown period and a coaching panel of Brent Reily, Michael Godden and Ben Hart. Not to say Nicks was blameless, but we were an absolute shitshow from top to bottom that year.

 

[Scorpus]

We had a perfect storm of stuff go wrong that season that Nicks was probably just the cherry on top. Players who didn't train hard during the shutdown period and a coaching panel of Brent Reily, Michael Godden and Ben Hart. Not to say Nicks was blameless, but we were an absolute shitshow from top to bottom that year.

I agree, but the claim was that no other (similar) coach has been handed a list in as bad a shape as ours.

Our list wasn't good, but it wasn't 0-13 historically bad levels of bad. A competent club would have had that list winning at least some of our early games.

Most of the major issues were stuff you highlighted. Not training hard during the shutdown is a coaching and culture issue. Horrendous (all time worst) assistant coaching panel. Ongoing camp damage. Covid sanctions. Rob Chapman and Andrew Fagan still there.

 

[1970crow]

He was 31 and shit but yes we had him as well

Highly experienced and according to the club, a great leader.

 

[1970crow]

I'll agree with M Crouch, Laird, Smith, Tex and B Crouch even though he only played two thirds the season

Lynch was cooked, missed a 3rd of the season

Doedee, 9 games...

Milera played 2 games in 2020, are you actually including him?

Talia, played 14 games and people on here were calling for his retirement. Ended up his last season.

Sloane played 12 games, 2 thirds a season... and averaged 15 touches a game. Clearly in decline.

Obrien played 17 games. But he is and always has been a middling Ruck, not a star.

McAsey, Galluci, Jones, Mchenry useless... Fog too raw to impact much.

That list of names is not a 0-13 start, but we arent looking at that list from a career point of view. We are looking at that list at a specific point of time. That list with the amount of games they played, the level of cooked some players were at, and quality of the rest of the squad were absolutely a 0-13 team.

Wasn’t there only 17 games?

 

[Geoffa32]

Of course you have, you're just looking at it at a superficial level

You've heard the term, follow the process, and results will ultimately come ....well then you're looking at the results, and not the process going on

We don't know the process.

We know media speculation and rumours from posters here.


There is little in what I have seen in Nicks coaching to tell me he will win Finals, plural.
The last ten minutes of the KP Geelong game was what convinced me he doesn't have it.

Yes we have a potentially decent list, very good bookends, still mediocre midfield though. ANB and Cummings are an improvement, but not game changers.


In terms of changes this off-season, we have seen nothing concrete. Have not even made our delistings, which most clubs seem to have done. But not us.


We need better Football Department management and better Coaching Staff.

We don't know what process is in place to strengthen these areas, and have seen 0.00 actual change.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

You're listing a bunch of blokes that played the majority of the season and labelling them cooked. Brad Crouch cooked from drugs? Like are you being serious here?

These are the guys that played most of the first 13 games

Laird (13)
Brown (13)
O'Brien (13)
Smith (12)
Keays (12)
M. Crouch (12)
Walker (11)
Lynch (11)
Talia (11)
Kelly (11)
Jones (10)
McAsey (10)
Murphy (10)
Doedee (9)
Seedsman (9)
B. Crouch (8)
Hartigan (8)
McHenry (8)

In the previous year we went 8-5 in the first 13 games. I've highlighted the guys that played most of those games in bold.

We had two of our three best midfielders playing most games, our two best half backs, our two key defenders, our best forward, our ruckman who would win the B&F - all of whom were there the previous year. Then we also added four first round picks, added Keays, retained some handy role players like Luke Brown...

...and you're suggesting that in the space of one season our entire playing list, most of which were under the age of 30, became completely cooked and historically bad?

I get that the list above is not amazing. It's not even that good. But we were last on the ladder by an absolute mile after round 13, 0 wins and a percentage of 55%. It was the worst result after round 13 since GWS in 2013 (0 wins, 51.4%) and no one has been worse since.

I'm sorry but you can't tell me with a straight face that being historically bad in those opening rounds was because our entire playing list, of which there were a bunch of experienced 25-30 year olds, all became cooked simultaneously in the space of one off season.

I'd say that our coaching group as a whole - which many at the time said was probably the worst ever assembled at AFL level - played a significant role in that diabolical season

This list below is not a good list... 6 of those players would barely make the best 22 of ANY team. 2 were on their last legs and retired soon after. 4 were never anything above solid B graders.

Laird (13)
Brown (13)
O'Brien (13)
Smith (12)
Keays (12)
M. Crouch (12)
Walker (11)
Lynch (11)
Talia (11)
Kelly (11)
Jones (10)
McAsey (10)
Murphy (10)
Doedee (9)
Seedsman (9)
B. Crouch (8)
Hartigan (8)
McHenry (8)

Our coaching team was terrible, no doubt. But our list was also terrible.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

We don't know the process.

We know media speculation and rumours from posters here.


There is little in what I have seen in Nicks coaching to tell me he will win Finals, plural.
The last ten minutes of the KP Geelong game was what convinced me he doesn't have it.

Yes we have a potentially decent list, very good bookends, still mediocre midfield though. ANB and Cummings are an improvement, but not game changes.


In terms of changes this off-season, we have seen nothing concrete. Have not even made our delistings, which most clubs seem to have done. But not us.


We need better Football Department management and better Coaching Staff.

We don't know what process is in place to strengthen these areas, and have seen 0.00 actual change.

Supporters want to see B4 they believe .....most would have zero idea of moves made on gameday, or the subtle changes to gameplans

The Swans were clearly the best team in the first half of this season ....but as some analysts said, did they show their hand too early
Teams work other teams out during the year ....teams are modfying their gameplan on ave every 6-8 weeks ....supporters would have zero idea of the changes, too busy barracking or venting

Just read the signs:
1. Changes to coaching is afoot
2. List depth, an acknowledged issue exposed by injuries .....is being addressed
3. Director of coaching (?) is being appointed
4. Development being reviewed and changed

But no noise on Nicks .....I've said over & over, a Coach is defined by what he gets out of his list .....therefore, more criticism of Coaches of mature lists like SYD, COLL, FREO, are warranted B4 Nicks

The list Nicks has in 2025 ....the extra resources he'll have .....historically the Crows are unforgiving with Coaches, 2025 is critical for Nicks

 

[kirky]

All I’m going to say, Fagan tookover Brisbane in 2017 and in the first two years he won 5 games in both 2017 and 2018 (in 2016 they finished with 3 wins).

He then did targeted recruiting before the 2019 season (Neale) and in the third season and ever since they have qualified for the finals which has culminated in the flag this year.

Fagan is a people person coach and results being 6 finals series in a row.

Just take a peek of the trading and drafting since 2017. AFC is very comparable but the only difference is the head coach.

Brisbane - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[kirky]

Supporters want to see B4 they believe .....most would have zero idea of moves made on gameday, or the subtle changes to gameplans

The Swans were clearly the best team in the first half of this season ....but as some analysts said, did they show their hand too early
Teams work other teams out during the year ....teams are modfying their gameplan on ave every 6-8 weeks ....supporters would have zero idea of the changes, too busy barracking or venting

Just read the signs:
1. Changes to coaching is afoot
2. List depth, an acknowledged issue exposed by injuries .....is being addressed
3. Director of coaching (?) is being appointed
4. Development being reviewed and changed

But no noise on Nicks .....I've said over & over, a Coach is defined by what he gets out of his list .....therefore, more criticism of Coaches of mature lists like SYD, COLL, FREO, are warranted B4 Nicks

The list Nicks has in 2025 ....the extra resources he'll have .....historically the Crows are unforgiving with Coaches, 2025 is critical for Nicks

Absolute rubbish - do a bit of research with Brisbane and Adelaide with drafting and trading. Both very similar positions. It is chalk and cheese.

Look where Brisbane came from when Fagan took over in 2017.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Supporters want to see B4 they believe .....most would have zero idea of moves made on gameday, or the subtle changes to gameplans

The Swans were clearly the best team in the first half of this season ....but as some analysts said, did they show their hand too early
Teams work other teams out during the year ....teams are modfying their gameplan on ave every 6-8 weeks ....supporters would have zero idea of the changes, too busy barracking or venting

Just read the signs:
1. Changes to coaching is afoot
2. List depth, an acknowledged issue exposed by injuries .....is being addressed
3. Director of coaching (?) is being appointed
4. Development being reviewed and changed

But no noise on Nicks .....I've said over & over, a Coach is defined by what he gets out of his list .....therefore, more criticism of Coaches of mature lists like SYD, COLL, FREO, are warranted B4 Nicks

The list Nicks has in 2025 ....the extra resources he'll have .....historically the Crows are unforgiving with Coaches, 2025 is critical for Nicks

It's good to see the club regonises the Coaching/List Management issues - we've all known this for years ago, but it took us to finish bottom 4 in year 5 of a rebuild to see this. I'm glad we might see change and the club can see it, happy to see how Nicks goes next year but hard to be optimistic given what we see from him week in and week out.

 

[1970crow]

Absolute rubbish - do a bit of research with Brisbane and Adelaide with drafting and trading. Both very similar positions. It is chalk and cheese.

Look where Brisbane came from when Fagan took over in 2017.

We didn’t even throw our hat in the ring for Neale. Makes sense given our perpetually stacked midfield.

 

[Scorpus]

This list below is not a good list... 6 of those players would barely make the best 22 of ANY team. 2 were on their last legs and retired soon after. 4 were never anything above solid B graders.

Laird (13)
Brown (13)
O'Brien (13)
Smith (12)
Keays (12)
M. Crouch (12)
Walker (11)
Lynch (11)
Talia (11)
Kelly (11)
Jones (10)
McAsey (10)
Murphy (10)
Doedee (9)
Seedsman (9)
B. Crouch (8)
Hartigan (8)
McHenry (8)

Our coaching team was terrible, no doubt. But our list was also terrible.

Sure it isn't that great, but let me show you a team that outperformed this group. The 2022 West Coast Eagles side that won 1 game (versus our 0) in the opening 13 games.

This is the side they rolled out in that win.



And this is the side we rolled out in our best performance in round 1 2020 during our big losing streak



I mean it's laughable that our team - which at times had basically our 2017 grand final midfield - couldn't win a game while West Coast rolls out a midfield of ****ing Jack Redden, Jamaine Jones, Xavier O'Neill and Luke Edwards and rolls a Collingwood team away featuring Nick Daicos, Jack Crisp, Steele Sidebottom and Scott Pendlebury.

There is no list quality explanation for the side we rolled out in 2020 imploding so completely relative to what they were dishing up in 2019. Especially when they performed about as well as that disgraceful West Coast side that required state league injury top ups

 

[1970crow]

Supporters want to see B4 they believe .....most would have zero idea of moves made on gameday, or the subtle changes to gameplans

The Swans were clearly the best team in the first half of this season ....but as some analysts said, did they show their hand too early
Teams work other teams out during the year ....teams are modfying their gameplan on ave every 6-8 weeks ....supporters would have zero idea of the changes, too busy barracking or venting

Just read the signs:
1. Changes to coaching is afoot
2. List depth, an acknowledged issue exposed by injuries .....is being addressed
3. Director of coaching (?) is being appointed
4. Development being reviewed and changed

But no noise on Nicks .....I've said over & over, a Coach is defined by what he gets out of his list .....therefore, more criticism of Coaches of mature lists like SYD, COLL, FREO, are warranted B4 Nicks

The list Nicks has in 2025 ....the extra resources he'll have .....historically the Crows are unforgiving with Coaches, 2025 is critical for Nicks

There’s heaps of media noise around Nicks. You’re very wrong there or being deliberately misleading.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

There’s heaps of media noise around Nicks. You’re very wrong there or being deliberately misleading.

On five double crow, yes, but mostly crickets from the Vic Media, we're just irrelevant at the moment. A poor start in 2025 though and we'll get piled on.

 

[Scorpus]

Just quietly it's actually a bit unbelievable that West Coast rolled out this side and only lost by 15 points to another AFL team.



(Yes that team was North but Jesus Christ what a shocking side)

 

[Doctor B]

But no noise on Nicks .....I've said over & over, a Coach is defined by what he gets out of his list .....therefore, more criticism of Coaches of mature lists like SYD, COLL, FREO, are warranted B4 Nicks

Mature list like Freo?

Freo were bottom 4 for experience and average age this year.

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