Membership Count : 30138 5/5/2008

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

Take a Bex and have a good lie down! We haven't been part of the "Big 4" for many, many years and its all our own fault. Our membership figures reflect our standing in the league (maybe even overstate it). They do NOT however, reflect the volume of support we have. The ONLY way you are going to get these supporters on board financially is to show them some semblance of hope and control, things we have sadly lacked across all areas for over 30 years. Many supporters are comfortable with paying up regardless, many are not - fact of life, deal with it. And if you think that shoving cowboy boots into places not designed for it is a solution then you are in for some significant disappointments in life.

And yes, I do have mine. Do every year (barring catastrophe's) even though I live interstate and don't get to many games now (some years none). To me its just a donation that helps my club, not a saving on admission but I'm not so naive to think that everyone should or does think this way.

We will always be in the big 4. Our average crowds prove it even after 25 years of nothing. Wait untill we have some success, we'll be the biggest club in the league

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

We will always be in the big 4. Our average crowds prove it even after 25 years of nothing. Wait untill we have some success, we'll be the biggest club in the league

We are kidding ourselves if we think we are still in the "Big 4". We threw that away many years ago through gross mismanagement and under achievement. We are not respected in the football world as a power or a leader and if we aspire to reach those lofty heights again then we need to earn it back. Unfortunately, respect lost is much harder to regain - it will take a number of years.

Regarding attendances, we figure in 4 of the all time top 10 highest attendances at any game - all prior to 1982. We figure in 3 of the all time top 10 home and away attendances - only 1 of these since 1982 (the Sheedy/Hird farewell game this year - hardly because of us). We figure once in the all time top 10 season averages (for home games only, not away or season total) and that was in 1980. In 2007 we were ranked 6th in average home game attendances and 3rd in away games. None of this is saying "Big 4" or power club to me, especially in the current day sense. More likely it says "potential" and if we get our act together for long enough then we might just become a power again. Its not about crowds and supporters, its about respect and thats what we need more than anything, the rest will follow.

 

[bomba4eva]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

Take a Bex and have a good lie down! We haven't been part of the "Big 4" for many, many years and its all our own fault. Our membership figures reflect our standing in the league (maybe even overstate it). They do NOT however, reflect the volume of support we have. The ONLY way you are going to get these supporters on board financially is to show them some semblance of hope and control, things we have sadly lacked across all areas for over 30 years. Many supporters are comfortable with paying up regardless, many are not - fact of life, deal with it. And if you think that shoving cowboy boots into places not designed for it is a solution then you are in for some significant disappointments in life.

And yes, I do have mine. Do every year (barring catastrophe's) even though I live interstate and don't get to many games now (some years none). To me its just a donation that helps my club, not a saving on admission but I'm not so naive to think that everyone should or does think this way.

Gold!
I personally believe that the Tigers are in the big 4. The Pies have won one flag in 50 years and are in the group so the Tigers should be too, even with their pathetic efforts over the last quarter of a century.

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

Gold!
I personally believe that the Tigers are in the big 4. The Pies have won one flag in 50 years and are in the group so the Tigers should be too, even with their pathetic efforts over the last quarter of a century.

And with that comment your sum it up perfectly - the reason we are not a respected power (Big 4) anymore. Collingwood have remained that way because although they have had some periods of poor management and bottom ladder finishes they have always been able to right the ship and maintain respect (or hope or credibility or whatever). They might not have tasted enough ultimate success but they have kept a 'presence', both on and off field, that has told the whole football world "we are here and we mean business". Thats where Richmond have failed. When we hit our dark days we turned on ourselves. We pressed the self-destruct button and rested on the laurels of our former glory days, basking in the arrogance of previous success and a self-perceived 'right' to belong to the power group. Its taken 30 years and much heartache for that to finally sink in to the club as a whole and for a group for people to come together and say enough is enough. We are getting it right now, even though our ladder position says otherwise, and all we can do is continue to keep getting right until the remaining pieces of the puzzle fit together and we reclaim the respect and right to be called a 'power'.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

We are kidding ourselves if we think we are still in the "Big 4". We threw that away many years ago through gross mismanagement and under achievement. We are not respected in the football world as a power or a leader and if we aspire to reach those lofty heights again then we need to earn it back. Unfortunately, respect lost is much harder to regain - it will take a number of years.

Regarding attendances, we figure in 4 of the all time top 10 highest attendances at any game - all prior to 1982. We figure in 3 of the all time top 10 home and away attendances - only 1 of these since 1982 (the Sheedy/Hird farewell game this year - hardly because of us). We figure once in the all time top 10 season averages (for home games only, not away or season total) and that was in 1980. In 2007 we were ranked 6th in average home game attendances and 3rd in away games. None of this is saying "Big 4" or power club to me, especially in the current day sense. More likely it says "potential" and if we get our act together for long enough then we might just become a power again. Its not about crowds and supporters, its about respect and thats what we need more than anything, the rest will follow.

Do you know what the Big 4 is? We are part of the Big 4 clubs in Victoria. The 4 clubs with the big supporter bases. We are 100% in the big 4 and will be the biggest club when our succes comes around because not even Collingwood would get 30,000 members after 25 years of nothing

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

Do you know what the Big 4 is? We are part of the Big 4 clubs in Victoria. The 4 clubs with the big supporter bases. We are 100% in the big 4 and will be the biggest club when our succes comes around because not even Collingwood would get 30,000 members after 25 years of nothing

Quite conversant with it actually. The Big 4 refers to the 4 'old school' Victorian clubs who held/hold a perceived balance of power of football in this state. When a Big 4 club spoke/speaks presumably everyone took/takes notice. Hand in hand with that, traditionally these 4 were also the 4 biggest crowd pullers as well. The badge "Big 4" is largely irrelevant nowadays in the expanded competition as the interstate clubs (especially as a lobby/voting bloc) hold just as much influence and power as the Big 4 used to. It is mainly used now by those wanting to hang onto the notion that the balance of power in the AFL still rests fairly and squarely in Victoria. It might hold sentimental or egoistic value to be classed nowadays as one of the Big 4 but thats about where it ends. Don't isolate the term to mean just support/crowds - it used to be much more than that and is now as much a part of folklore as anything substantial or meaningful. I fully agree with you re: the dormant level of support we have that will transpire into strong attendance and membership figures as our resurgence continues but as for being a part of the current Big 4, sorry don't agree and frankly, don't give a rats. It will be much more important and meaningful to me to become one of the 'hunted', one of the clubs that others try to emulate. Then I will know that we have regained our respect.

And just for a bit of passing trivia - here is the start of an article by a football journo back in 2005:

Where to for the Big Four?

12:00 AM Wed 27 July, 2005 | Back
Paul Gough
Exclusive to AFL BigPond Network


News

They were the kings of the old VFL, the clubs who ruled in the era of chequebook football before the salary cap and the draft stopped teams buying their way out of trouble.

Just 21 years ago they filled the top four positions on the ladder at the end of the home and away season, but in 2005 the once powerful quartet of Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn and Carlton are set to fill the bottom four places on the AFL ladder.

 

[Tigersman]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

I think the average attendance figures are misleading as some clubs play the pies ,bombers and blues twice where others dont so clearly there is not a level playing field. I would like to see the traditional clashes v Collingwood, Carlton and the Bombers given blockbuster status again and put on twice a year. Hard to do these days I know. Like everything these things need to be earned.

Like you smokey I dont use the membership as much as I would like, maybe 4-5 games a year. To hard with the kids being at an age when they wont sit still for a full game. Lucky to get away for those 5 games!Hoping for more this year.

 

[bomba4eva]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

I fully agree with you re: the dormant level of support we have that will transpire into strong attendance and membership figures as our resurgence continues but as for being a part of the current Big 4, sorry don't agree and frankly, don't give a rats. It will be much more important and meaningful to me to become one of the 'hunted', one of the clubs that others try to emulate. Then I will know that we have regained our respect.

When did the resurgence begin? You go on about not being respected anymore which is quite true, then claim the resurgence continues when you are at the foot of the ladder and in many peoples eyes, the furthest away from premiership glory?

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

When did the resurgence begin? You go on about not being respected anymore which is quite true, then claim the resurgence continues when you are at the foot of the ladder and in many peoples eyes, the furthest away from premiership glory?

You don't read many of my posts do you!

Our resurgence began 4 years ago and on a timescale of 1 to 10 we are probably at about 3 to 4. Our resurgence required a restructure of our board, replacement of some key administrative/managerial personnel, an acceptance of 'reality' from within, firm commitment to deep-seated culture change, resilience to knee-jerk reaction from all key parties, a complete clean out and restructure of both our playing list and football department, and lastly but most importantly, the patience from every single person involved in or affected by the tough times and long term it would take to complete. There might not be many changes visible to those outside the club yet but they are well and truly under way and changing for the better as we speak, and almost all of those who are involved in or support the club can see it. Thats why there was a deafening silence from within the club last year when all the media ferals were circling trying to stir up 'bankable' conflict based on our ladder position - those in the know and/or those who cared to dig deep enough knew that it was just plain muck-raking with no basis on reality. We could excuse or justify the ladder position - of far more importance was to stick together and keep looking/walking forward. We did that in spades! Our list restructure is almost complete, our football department is expanding, our management is controlled and quite first class, our debt is reducing, and we are turning over consistent profits with increasing memberships and sponsorships. Look into it yourself and you will see much evidence of the strength, resolve and effect of the resurgence already. The last place it was always going to become obvious and played out was on-field. Watch this space!

 

[bomba4eva]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

You don't read many of my posts do you!

Our resurgence began 4 years ago and on a timescale of 1 to 10 we are probably at about 3 to 4. Our resurgence required a restructure of our board, replacement of some key administrative/managerial personnel, an acceptance of 'reality' from within, firm commitment to deep-seated culture change, resilience to knee-jerk reaction from all key parties, a complete clean out and restructure of both our playing list and football department, and lastly but most importantly, the patience from every single person involved in or affected by the tough times and long term it would take to complete. There might not be many changes visible to those outside the club yet but they are well and truly under way and changing for the better as we speak, and almost all of those who are involved in or support the club can see it. Thats why there was a deafening silence from within the club last year when all the media ferals were circling trying to stir up 'bankable' conflict based on our ladder position - those in the know and/or those who cared to dig deep enough knew that it was just plain muck-raking with no basis on reality. We could excuse or justify the ladder position - of far more importance was to stick together and keep looking/walking forward. We did that in spades! Our list restructure is almost complete, our football department is expanding, our management is controlled and quite first class, our debt is reducing, and we are turning over consistent profits with increasing memberships and sponsorships. Look into it yourself and you will see much evidence of the strength, resolve and effect of the resurgence already. The last place it was always going to become obvious and played out was on-field. Watch this space!

No I don't read too many of your posts. Just the ones above.
My question to you is will Wallace be sacked if the Tigers finish in the bottom 4 again next year?

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

No I don't read too many of your posts. Just the ones above.
My question to you is will Wallace be sacked if the Tigers finish in the bottom 4 again next year?

No, where we finish will not have any impact unless the team/coach relationship suffers a brain fart and he loses the respect of the players. Then, I think he will walk - he is a smart guy very conscious of his image and will not stay one second longer than if he thinks he can't succeed.

 

[Tigersman]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

12th or 6-8 wins no problem. Any less than that and the knives will come out I reckon.

We could argue if it would be the right or wrong call but I think everyones patience will have ran out by years end if we have 3 or 4 wins only and no real excuses ( serious injuries etc).

And for that matter Miller would be under pressure also. A few of the young blokes need to come on this year to keep the place happy.

I agree with your comments on stability of the club being important and hope that we can keep the current group around long term but a bad 2008 means 4 years in with Wallace with no improvement in the onfield results. That would be tough to sell to anyone.

 

[Tas]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

I think the average attendance figures are misleading as some clubs play the pies ,bombers and blues twice where others dont so clearly there is not a level playing field.

Just to highlight your point...

This year we only play Richmond, Essendon and Carlton once. The games against Richmond and Carlton are away games. We usually play two of the clubs twice but at times it is like this year, partly because the AFL is trying to maximise crowds to meet venue quotas and they play the bigger drawing clubs against eachother for that purpose, so it further skews the results in their favour.

It is hard to compete in terms of numbers when you have limited access to the big four and the AFL are morons and schedule a home game against a team like Carlton for interstate like they did last year.

Oh well, at least in a couple of years that will be over with.

 

[Tigersman]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

Just to highlight your point...

This year we only play Richmond, Essendon and Carlton once. The games against Richmond and Carlton are away games. We usually play two of the clubs twice but at times it is like this year, partly because the AFL is trying to maximise crowds to meet venue quotas and they play the bigger drawing clubs against each other for that purpose, so it further skews the results in their favour.

It is hard to compete in terms of numbers when you have limited access to the big four and the AFL are morons and schedule a home game against a team like Carlton for interstate like they did last year.

Oh well, at least in a couple of years that will be over with.

And then they hold things like the competitive balance fund or whatever its called over the heads of clubs like North and the Bulldogs when it comes to how they are run and where they spend their money and so on. That payment is fully deserved by clubs who dont get the exposure and biased treatment the collingwoods of the afl get. Dont get me wrong I understand why collingwood and some others get the deal they do but to put certain conditions on the handing out of the money to those that dont isnt fair. Be interesting to see if the fixturing of big games and Friday nights dries up for the roos in the next couple of years if the afl choose to push them further down the road to relocation.

 

[Tas]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

And then they hold things like the competitive balance fund or whatever its called over the heads of clubs like North and the Bulldogs when it comes to how they are run and where they spend their money and so on. That payment is fully deserved by clubs who dont get the exposure and biased treatment the collingwoods of the afl get. Dont get me wrong I understand why collingwood and some others get the deal they do but to put certain conditions on the handing out of the money to those that dont isnt fair. Be interesting to see if the fixturing of big games and Friday nights dries up for the roos in the next couple of years if the afl choose to push them further down the road to relocation.

The other thing that annoys me a bit is that pay-tv represents 2/3rds of the AFL's broadcasting revenue and a lot of our games are live and exclusive pay-tv games so we don't benefit from much FTA exposure and facilitate a large portion of the Foxtel games. Interstate teams have no live and exclusive games, all their games are on FTA TV and get 1/16th of the massive pay-tv revenue and they bitch about the peanuts that are paid in the SDF.

 

[PLSC]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

No, where we finish will not have any impact unless the team/coach relationship suffers a brain fart and he loses the respect of the players. Then, I think he will walk - he is a smart guy very conscious of his image and will not stay one second longer than if he thinks he can't succeed.

terry will walk away from his fat contract?

your having a laugh

 

[murph#3]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

you guys have about 15 000 ticketed members and about 4000 non-ticketed members. does this mean that 15 000 of your members get access to games and 4000 just buy memberships that dont include entry to the games?

 

[PHX]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

you guys have about 15 000 ticketed members and about 4000 non-ticketed members. does this mean that 15 000 of your members get access to games and 4000 just buy memberships that dont include entry to the games?

Correct Murph.

By my understanding of the AFL rules and regulations on memberships. . . .

15000 members with 6 and over game entitlement membership.

And 4000 odd memberships that dont include access to 6 or more games. They are Tiger Insider and Interstate memberships (off topic point: the Interstate membership is 5 games exactly, if they made it 6 they would be included in the official ticketed count. . . .)



After hearing of all the pre-Christmas rewards for signing up to memberships by other clubs its disappointing RFC do no such thing. Its mostly fluff but its something to push people into paying early and give a buffer to our count early which with a higher count have other ticketed members do the same to catch a reserved seat early. No wonder we wallow at this time of year as there is no incentive to sign up until just before the season.

 

[Tigerbeau]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

I dont care what people say about us not being in the top 4, of course we are. 25 years of bad finacing and terriable decisions dosent undo over 100 years of Amazing Footy, Incrediable Stars and a club enriched with an amazing History. I dont care if the Kangaroos or the Western Bulldogs have more members at the moment, because at years end the still are thriving to be like us, a team soaked in Supporter Loyalty, Strong Committment* and A passion for a football club no one can buy, theres no one more passionate than Richmond supporters, in 2008 we will show why we are the most passionate supporters in the league, this year I urge every Richmond supporter who calls themselves Dedicated to attend as many games possible, supporters from other clubs will finally see the real Tiger Army in force.
http://www.myspace.com/richmondtigerarmy
* Richmond; even though was last on the ladder in 2007, we still recorded the third highest overall attendance in the league.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

Correct Murph.

By my understanding of the AFL rules and regulations on memberships. . . .

15000 members with 6 and over game entitlement membership.

And 4000 odd memberships that dont include access to 6 or more games. They are Tiger Insider and Interstate memberships (off topic point: the Interstate membership is 5 games exactly, if they made it 6 they would be included in the official ticketed count. . . .)



After hearing of all the pre-Christmas rewards for signing up to memberships by other clubs its disappointing RFC do no such thing. Its mostly fluff but its something to push people into paying early and give a buffer to our count early which with a higher count have other ticketed members do the same to catch a reserved seat early. No wonder we wallow at this time of year as there is no incentive to sign up until just before the season.

Dont know where u get your info from phoenix but your wrong.

Ticket members are members which get to vote.

Interstate members get to vote, how do i know? because at our last board election I voted

 

[sante]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

Dont know where u get your info from phoenix but your wrong.

Ticket members are members which get to vote.

Interstate members get to vote, how do i know? because at our last board election I voted

I thought that was odd...

Why wouldn't Interstaters be included in the official tally?

 

[beaver fever]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

Pretty sure phoenix is correct on this one.

 

[keefriffhard]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

After hearing of all the pre-Christmas rewards for signing up to memberships by other clubs its disappointing RFC do no such thing. Its mostly fluff but its something to push people into paying early and give a buffer to our count early which with a higher count have other ticketed members do the same to catch a reserved seat early. No wonder we wallow at this time of year as there is no incentive to sign up until just before the season.

It does work. The Hawks sent out the 2008 membership cards to all 2007 members, with them being activated once the member pays up. To me it seemed a good idea. You had the pass in your hand and felt obliged to do something about your membership then. We are already over 20,00 members and I think this was a real help.

I'm not sure which level of membership it applies to, but my understanding is the bombers also keep members details on record and debit their credit card by a certain date if the member hasn't contacted the club to cancel for the coming season. I reckon it's pretty sneaky as it may catch out a few members, but I'm sure it works for their membership figures.

 

[smokey_58au]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 13,341

terry will walk away from his fat contract?

your having a laugh

He's done it before.

 

[PHX]

Re: Membership Count : Ticketed: 15,426

Dont know where u get your info from phoenix but your wrong.

Ticket members are members which get to vote.

Interstate members get to vote, how do i know? because at our last board election I voted

No worries, where do you get your info from PRR that makes you so sure voting rights = Ticketed?

If there was clear FAQs about we wouldnt be so in the dark about it.