Traded Mitch McGovern [traded to Carlton in a three-way trade involving Sydney and McAdam]

[arsene wenger1]

I’ve heard graham cornes, and he’s never said he’s worth pick one. What he has said is they can’t afford to lose him and should not trade him. Demand Carlton use their first pick, they’ll most likely decline, then make gov see out his contract

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Does SOS mention gibbs or just contracted players and his virews on how trading contracted players works

View attachment 567227


By the way we wanted 12 for Cameron, Gov is better

2 second round picks is overs. stringer was an all australian and leading goal kicker for a premiership side and he went for 2 second rounders. crameri went for a second rounder and all his seasons were better than mcgoverns best season.

even charlie cameron kicked more goals than mitch this year playing for a crap side and last year playing second fiddle to eddie betts.

I think crows fans are delusional in their rating of McGovern market value based on his actual production. yes he's shown flashes of brilliance, you know who else did? Troy menzel. given that mitch wasn't even a high draft pick so he wasn't an expensive acquisition in the first place, 2 second rounders is paying overs and more than generous

 

[Mr_Moogle]

2 second round picks is overs. stringer was an all australian and leading goal kicker for a premiership side and he went for 2 second rounders. crameri went for a second rounder and all his seasons were better than mcgoverns best season.

even charlie cameron kicked more goals than mitch this year playing for a crap side and last year playing second fiddle to eddie betts.

I think crows fans are delusional in their rating of McGovern market value based on his actual production. yes he's shown flashes of brilliance, you know who else did? Troy menzel. given that mitch wasn't even a high draft pick so he wasn't an expensive acquisition in the first place, 2 second rounders is paying overs and more than generous

I stopped reading when you mentioned Crameri. Lmao.

 

[PAFC_1870]

I’ve heard graham cornes, and he’s never said he’s worth pick one. What he has said is they can’t afford to lose him and should not trade him. Demand Carlton use their first pick, they’ll most likely decline, then make gov see out his contract

I didn't say Cornes, I believe it was Rowey, and actually for that matter I reckon Cornes did suggest 1 too as you've suggested.

But Rowey has pumped up his value like he's Fyfe etc etc

 

[When I Crow Up]

2 second round picks is overs. stringer was an all australian and leading goal kicker for a premiership side and he went for 2 second rounders. crameri went for a second rounder and all his seasons were better than mcgoverns best season.

even charlie cameron kicked more goals than mitch this year playing for a crap side and last year playing second fiddle to eddie betts.

I think crows fans are delusional in their rating of McGovern market value based on his actual production. yes he's shown flashes of brilliance, you know who else did? Troy menzel. given that mitch wasn't even a high draft pick so he wasn't an expensive acquisition in the first place, 2 second rounders is paying overs and more than generous

Well clearly Carlton value him at more than 2 first rounds picks as you don't make your best offer straight up. They've offered 2 knowing the crows would reject it and will have a number of trade scenarios to get the deal done, just like the crows will. The deal will be done somewhere in the middle.

Also Mitch was injured for a chunk of the season so if you go by goals per game that stat isn't right. And Cramerie was a bit different - 'It was a second-round selection or Crameri could walk into the pre-season draft and Essendon would get nothing for him. That was always a last resort for the Bulldogs and not they way they wanted to do business, but it was still an option if all else failed. It's unlikely any other club would have snatched him before the Dogs' pre-season selection, such was his determination to head there.' That's from the following article http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-16/crameri-trade-a-winwin

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Well clearly Carlton value him at more than 2 first rounds picks as you don't make your best offer straight up. They've offered 2 knowing the crows would reject it and will have a number of trade scenarios to get the deal done, just like the crows will. The deal will be done somewhere in the middle.

Also Mitch was injured for a chunk of the season so if you go by goals per game that stat isn't right. And Cramerie was a bit different - 'It was a second-round selection or Crameri could walk into the pre-season draft and Essendon would get nothing for him. That was always a last resort for the Bulldogs and not they way they wanted to do business, but it was still an option if all else failed. It's unlikely any other club would have snatched him before the Dogs' pre-season selection, such was his determination to head there.' That's from the following article http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-16/crameri-trade-a-winwin

Might also be worth mentioning Crameri is ****ing 30 years old. Lmao.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Might also be worth mentioning Crameri is ******* 30 years old. Lmao.

And that lol.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

And that lol.

They must have meant the Essendon to Bulldogs trade which was pick 26 back in 2014. (for the 26 year old Crameri)

(This is a bad comparison mostly because Essendon knew it was a bad deal but were reeling from draft sanctions at the time and desperate to get into the second round. It's actually kind of like the Bernie Vince situation with pick 23)

 

[When I Crow Up]

They must have meant the Essendon to Bulldogs trade which was pick 26 back in 2014. (for the 26 year old Crameri)

That was my assumption and what the article I referenced was about.

 

[marty36]

2 second round picks is overs. stringer was an all australian and leading goal kicker for a premiership side and he went for 2 second rounders. crameri went for a second rounder and all his seasons were better than mcgoverns best season.

even charlie cameron kicked more goals than mitch this year playing for a crap side and last year playing second fiddle to eddie betts.

I think crows fans are delusional in their rating of McGovern market value based on his actual production. yes he's shown flashes of brilliance, you know who else did? Troy menzel. given that mitch wasn't even a high draft pick so he wasn't an expensive acquisition in the first place, 2 second rounders is paying overs and more than generous

Luckily Mark Ricciutto has more creditability than JohnnyFontane90 and he publicly said 24 and 25 wont do it

So what will do it, is probably the question and going by that something around 10 will

 

[Mr_Moogle]

That was my assumption and what the article I referenced was about.

Yeah but still a terrible comparison based on Essendons situation at the time.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Luckily Mark Ricciutto has more creditability than JohnnyFontane90 and he publicly said 24 and 25 wont do it

So what will do it, is probably the question and going by that something around 10 will

Carlton don't have anything more to give up in this draft other than their 2 seconds because let's be honest they won't give us their first unless it somehow netted them a number of players probably including Shiel which I can't see happening. I think both their seconds and a pick swap next year is the most likely scenario unless they have a player we really like which I don't think they would and Carlton would be unlikely to want to lose any young development players given their age profile. I think Carlton need to look ahead and accept the answers for them are no longer in the draft and they need to bring players in to build up their culture and teach structure and how to win to their young players.

 

[marty36]

Carlton don't have anything more to give up in this draft other than their 2 seconds because let's be honest they won't give us their first unless it somehow netted them a number of players probably including Shiel which I can't see happening. I think both their seconds and a pick swap next year is the most likely scenario unless they have a player we really like which I don't think they would and Carlton would be unlikely to want to lose any young development players given their age profile. I think Carlton need to look ahead and accept the answers for them are no longer in the draft and they need to bring players in to build up their culture and teach structure and how to win to their young players.

they have the number 1 pick they could use to swap for two firsts or the number one pick to swap for gov and our first, they have 24 and 25 they could try and swap with or even players they may move out

its time for SOS to be creative

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I stopped reading when you mentioned Crameri. Lmao.

crameri kicked more goals that mcgovern in every season he played in before he was traded. I agree that maybe crameri is setting the bar a little high

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Well clearly Carlton value him at more than 2 first rounds picks as you don't make your best offer straight up. They've offered 2 knowing the crows would reject it and will have a number of trade scenarios to get the deal done, just like the crows will. The deal will be done somewhere in the middle.

Also Mitch was injured for a chunk of the season so if you go by goals per game that stat isn't right. And Cramerie was a bit different - 'It was a second-round selection or Crameri could walk into the pre-season draft and Essendon would get nothing for him. That was always a last resort for the Bulldogs and not they way they wanted to do business, but it was still an option if all else failed. It's unlikely any other club would have snatched him before the Dogs' pre-season selection, such was his determination to head there.' That's from the following article http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-16/crameri-trade-a-winwin

by any metric his goal scoring record is questionable and his body is a concern as well. jarrad waite would have a been a superstar of the game if he could stay healthy but when we traded him away we didn't get 'perfect health' value. mcgoverns contract situation is the only reason why 2 second rounders in this draft is fair.

 

[marty36]

by any metric his goal scoring record is questionable and his body is a concern as well. jarrad waite would have a been a superstar of the game if he could stay healthy but when we traded him away we didn't get 'perfect health' value. mcgoverns contract situation is the only reason why 2 second rounders in this draft is fair.

why are you banging on about second rounders when the AFC have publicly stated no way

 

[Mr_Moogle]

crameri kicked more goals that mcgovern in every season he played in before he was traded. I agree that maybe crameri is setting the bar a little high

The Crameri trade was a bad deal necessitated by draft sanctions. It's not a valid point of reference regardless of Crameri's ability.

 

[FyfeToAdelaide]

If there's no trade then it becomes the Crows problem on how make him happy while he's in Adelaide and his partner is in Melb.
So if you play hardball and force a stalemate so he stays good luck trying to sort that out.

If he wants to be in Melb so bad nominate the state not a team or suck it up.

 

[Sector 7G]

They must have meant the Essendon to Bulldogs trade which was pick 26 back in 2014. (for the 26 year old Crameri)

(This is a bad comparison mostly because Essendon knew it was a bad deal but were reeling from draft sanctions at the time and desperate to get into the second round. It's actually kind of like the Bernie Vince situation with pick 23)

Crameri was 25 for all but the last month of 2014. 14 months older at time of trade
26 is a true reflection of the value of a consistent 30 goal a year midsized forward.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Crameri was 25 for all but the last month of 2014. 14 months older at time of trade
26 is a true reflection of the value of a consistent 30 goal a year midsized forward.

Lmao. Essendon were desperate to get a second round pick in a year of draft sanctions. They knew it was a shit deal.

There was also the fact that the Bulldogs had the first pick in the PSD that year meaning they had leverage over Essendon in that trade. McGovern aint walking to the PSD because he's under contract.

 

[Sector 7G]

Lmao. Essendon were desperate to get a second round pick in a year of draft sanctions. They knew it was a shit deal.

The EFC supporters I know saw him as a flat track bully who never got the job done in big games and were not sad to see him go, but I guess we shouldn't really be commenting on what they really wanted.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

The EFC supporters I know saw him as a flat track bully who never got the job done in big games and were not sad to see him go, but I guess we shouldn't really be commenting on what they really wanted.

What fans thought of Crameri is irrelevant. They weren't sitting at the trade table.

This article here suggests Essendon weren't exactly happy about the deal but relented, probably because the alternative was him walking to the PSD and getting nothing for him.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...d-to-the-western-bulldogs-20131024-2w3ol.html

 

[Sector 7G]

What fans thought of Crameri is irrelevant. They weren't sitting at the trade table.

This article here suggests Essendon weren't exactly happy about the deal but relented, probably because the alternative was him walking to the PSD and getting nothing for him.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...d-to-the-western-bulldogs-20131024-2w3ol.html

Dodoro wanted more in a trade. Surprise surprise.

If he went in the PSD (which never happens) he wouldn't have got to the Bulldogs so they paid what they thought he was worth.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Dodoro wanted more in a trade. Surprise surprise.

If he went in the PSD (which never happens) he wouldn't have got to the Bulldogs so they paid what they thought he was worth.

No they paid the bare minimum they knew Essendon would accept on account of their draft sanctions. You remember Melbourne supporters banging on about only paying pick 23 for Bernie Vince? It's a similar situation. Crows were desperate for picks in a year of draft sanctions.

 

[When I Crow Up]

by any metric his goal scoring record is questionable and his body is a concern as well. jarrad waite would have a been a superstar of the game if he could stay healthy but when we traded him away we didn't get 'perfect health' value. mcgoverns contract situation is the only reason why 2 second rounders in this draft is fair.

I think if it was any other club 2 seconds may well have gotten the deal done, maybe with steak knives of a development player, but given SOS's stance and hardballing and the expectations of the Crows members, I think our list management team feel that now the shoe is on the other foot and may well be enjoying playing hardball with SOS and want to send a message.

I personally don't feel that SOS did the right thing by Gibbs given his personal, not just family, issues and desire to return to SA to deal with them when you take into account what Gibbs had given to Carlton and had carried the club through a lot, and I wouldn't be surprised if our list management felt the same frustration. Add on top of this the suspicions that Carlton had approached McGovern and been the ones to encourage him to leave his contract (only suspicions and I'm not accusing Carlton of doing that), the Crows are well within their rights to play hardball and wouldn't have appreciated this if it did happen, and like I said the majority of Crows members would appreciate this stance.

Given Mitch's upside and how that he's a proven game winner for us, I'm more than happy for us to not take the 2 second rounders and gamble on him changing his tune and actually wanting to stay. Also worth noting is his injuries haven't been related, they've been mostly impact injuries that could have happened to anyone barring the couple of hamstring niggles which most players seem to have these days.