Game Day NAB Challenge Wk 1 - Carlton v Hawthorn Gameday Discussion

[Blue since 72]

Haven't read every post but did anyone note the rotations last night.

130 Hawks to 78 Carlton.

Saw T2B's post #219 where he noted the guys looked to be taking a breather in the third I think so probably a reasonable contributor to a more average second half.

 

[george2]

Hey guys I haven't read through all of this thread but how did you guys view Boekhurst's game last night?

 

[Jimmae]

Hey guys I haven't read through all of this thread but how did you guys view Boekhurst's game last night?

Very good delivery into the 50, had plenty of pace and body strength in the contest. Will be a difficult match up on wing/HF and can see him earning 20 possessions most games because of it, which will improve our forward setup immensely.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-02-18/boekhorst-brilliance-sets-up-everitt

 

[zeeCFC]

The biggest positive for me was the style of play Bolton had us playing and for a quarter it beat the Hawks. Then they hit back and their better skills and drilling beat us easily.

The forward line is so far away from being functional and again we were bombing it in when the only time we looked good was when we looked for the shorter pass in or the player in space at least (Gorringe and Everitt marks).

The midfield is serviceable at the stoppages but the second it gets out in the open the defense is under pressure. The defenders did great last night all things considered but they can't rebound properly if they're under the pump like that.

The forward line struggles from having to help the defense too and they can't play their natural game. The first quarter the mids were doing their job and we looked dangerous whenever it went i50.

Individually there were glimpses from a few and apart from Graham, Kreuzer, Boekhorst and Levi I wasn't that pleased with anyone else. It's only the first praccy match so who cares but Kerridge is much tidier with disposal at training and would like to see Phillips keep his feet more in a contest like Kreuzer does when ploughing through play.

Lamb showed a bit of mongrel and showed he's willing to run up the ground and was silky. I think at the very least he can surpass Menzel's output (not a hard task)...from what I've seen of him in the preseason though he's very skillful and there's great scope for improvement.

Boekhorst and Graham looked great with ball in hand but unlike a Cripps or Murphy they aren't the types to hunt the ball and get it themselves. I wish we had an outside player that could decide a game like Isaac Smith but maybe another draft.

Docherty looked good higher up the ground and around the ball. Think he could be that outside player I talked about. Thomas could perhaps take his spot down back, looked much better setting up play with the game in front of him.

Byrne was a little fumbly and didn't look totally in line with the speed of the game but he's missed chunks of the preseason and not played footy in a while so he gets a pass.

Not much else I can remember except that the umpiring was horrible and our Tassie support was great. I'll be cementing Graham into my 22 while the likes of Tutt, Whiley and White only showed we need to keep them in the twos if we're to really succeed...they're simply too flawed IMO.

 

[HBF]

I was highly critical of the decision to take Boekhorst over Laverde but that anger has waned a little now. If they both turn out to have careers around the same level then the decision was a good one.

Based on the last few games of 2015 and some glimpses last night, Boekhorst may end up being a solid contributor for us across the wing and half-forward, he seems to improve just a little more each time I see him.

What I like about Boekhorst is that even though he doesn't get alot of footy, he generally makes them count. I reckon the best passage of play last night was his in the second quarter down that outer wing.

 

[jj1978]

Like most still not sold on "Jones" but further in terms of him not being able to mark the ball was slippery in the second half and even Cas had a couple that went through the dukes.

Looks like some semblence of Ratten's kamikaze gameplan last night... just wish we'd be a little more compose entering our forward 50... give it time!

 

[FoeverBlues]

Tutt's issue is that outside runners should make good decisions and have good skills. He looks sensational at times and totally kills the play at other times.

reminds me off Andrew Collins

 

[1981]

Cripps will like having Kerridge around.

Pleasing to see a good game plan and adherence to it and to better structures, and Graham the other clear highlight.

And a few others show glimpses which is nice.

Some of the others showed the same deficiencies we have seen before, but most of us wouldn't have had them in the reckoning for the long term.

Overall not a bad outing for us, especially given the lopsided rotations.

Remember, it will be a long journey for Carlton and their fans. It is about adding youngish players who are up to it (ie: talent wise) over time, and developing them and the game plan and the culture.

Right now I am on the Bolton Bandwagon.

 

[Madblue]

The biggest positive for me was the style of play Bolton had us playing and for a quarter it beat the Hawks. Then they hit back and their better skills and drilling beat us easily.

The forward line is so far away from being functional and again we were bombing it in when the only time we looked good was when we looked for the shorter pass in or the player in space at least (Gorringe and Everitt marks).

The midfield is serviceable at the stoppages but the second it gets out in the open the defense is under pressure. The defenders did great last night all things considered but they can't rebound properly if they're under the pump like that.

The forward line struggles from having to help the defense too and they can't play their natural game. The first quarter the mids were doing their job and we looked dangerous whenever it went i50.

Individually there were glimpses from a few and apart from Graham, Kreuzer, Boekhorst and Levi I wasn't that pleased with anyone else. It's only the first praccy match so who cares but Kerridge is much tidier with disposal at training and would like to see Phillips keep his feet more in a contest like Kreuzer does when ploughing through play.

Lamb showed a bit of mongrel and showed he's willing to run up the ground and was silky. I think at the very least he can surpass Menzel's output (not a hard task)...from what I've seen of him in the preseason though he's very skillful and there's great scope for improvement.

Boekhorst and Graham looked great with ball in hand but unlike a Cripps or Murphy they aren't the types to hunt the ball and get it themselves. I wish we had an outside player that could decide a game like Isaac Smith but maybe another draft.

Docherty looked good higher up the ground and around the ball. Think he could be that outside player I talked about. Thomas could perhaps take his spot down back, looked much better setting up play with the game in front of him.

Byrne was a little fumbly and didn't look totally in line with the speed of the game but he's missed chunks of the preseason and not played footy in a while so he gets a pass.

Not much else I can remember except that the umpiring was horrible and our Tassie support was great. I'll be cementing Graham into my 22 while the likes of Tutt, Whiley and White only showed we need to keep them in the twos if we're to really succeed...they're simply too flawed IMO.

Tutt and Whiley were both good last night so not sure what game you were watching ??

 

[jezzajay]

Was happy and impressed to see the boys take the hawks to task last night, we started out the blocks nicely. You could see as the game wore on the boys were getting weary. Although it wasn’t obvious from the tv, to hear that the interchange use by the hawks was considerably higher than ours gives reason regarding the weariness. And the game was opening up more for the hawks due to this which resulted in a ‘run on’ for them which ultimately was the difference with the score in the end.

I like Boltons thinking with this… fitness has been a concern over recent years so to do this makes sense….harden them up for the season and this was a great opportunity to do so. If anything the hawks missed this opportunity.

The game plan looked so much more cohesive, felt like I was watching a completely different team to 2015 – refreshing!

Our offense had purpose and space when moving forward, although our forward line concerns me (as I can see it does for most….where are the goals going to come from!). I will hold my thoughts till the next couple of games are played to see how they work with the issue.

Hopefully Curnow comes on as a mobile target. Casboult we know what hes capable of but that ball drop still doesn’t look good. Everitt, Kreuzer/Phillips (rotating through) should give our mids some tall targets.

Our defence appeared to be more ‘up and about’ then the hawks…and I’m talking across the ground.

We smashed them at ruck contest and working the ball out but lost it with possession… I still don’t know why they feel the need to handball to someone’s feet, about as frustrating as it gets! Its not that hard to aim a little higher for christs sake! When I was coaching (kids mind you) this was something I tried to drum into them constantly.

Having Cripps and Murph come back will add class and the possession effectiveness should rise with them both in the middle.


Special mention to Kerridge, Graham, Docherty, Thomas, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Casboult, Boekhurst, Whiley, Touhy and Phillips for all providing something that I hope to see more of for the season ahead – effort!

I’m excited to see whats ahead with the additions of Cripps, Murphy, Cuningham, Weitering, Buckley and Walker. Also having Plowman, Lamb, Wright, Armfield, Smith, Jaksch and McKay sniffing around for the opportunity gives me hope.


6 months ago I may not have said this but I’m looking forward to next week already!

 

[ShanDog]

Tutt and Whiley were both good last night so not sure what game you were watching ??

They were good without being great and also showed some of the flaws in their games.

Tutt put heaps of pressure on and ran his guts out to get his hands on the ball - tick
Then he has a tendancy to shank it or turn the ball over - cross

Whiley was strong over the ball at stoppages and got his hands on it too - tick
Disposal didn't always leave us in a better position than before though - cross

 

[HBF]

Like most still not sold on "Jones" but further in terms of him not being able to mark the ball was slippery in the second half and even Cas had a couple that went through the dukes.

Looks like some semblence of Ratten's kamikaze gameplan last night... just wish we'd be a little more compose entering our forward 50... give it time!

At least Jones worked hard when he didn't have the footy last night - something that we couldn't have said for the majority of last year.

 

[F_therest]

A few extra additions from attending last night.

Watching pre game warm up looked very different than usual, kick to kick in a line with kerridge paired up with curnow (seems like these two push each other in all sessionsas they are the standard for fitness at carlton ATM). They had rotating contests of a trainer laying off to a quick kick inside 50 with either gorringe/jones/cas marking and/or attempting to tap to a roving lamb for a quick snap at goal.

Didn't see a lot of this during the game bu whenever we had a mark around the 50 it was always a short top of the square pass on entering rather than going for goal. 2-3 times casboult marked in a position where he could of made the journey with ease but decided to lop it to the square. I even saw lamb and wright do this maneuver from the pocket about 25-30 out on a tight angle. I'm pretty sure it didn't work in any case except the deliberate out of bounds call that allowed Lamb to set up Casboult for the first goal.

Pre game midfield set ups looked great with quick handballs through congestion in a limited space from ruck taps, 5 v 5 which included kruezer and phillips. In the mix was wright, graham, kerridge, gibbs, curnow, basically all you saw in the centre square during the game. There were limited mistakes or fumbles which shows how far weve come with the pressure acts and working in tight spaces. This will get extremely better with cripps murphy and possible cuningham in there also. My only knock was that when in game and we were trying to get clear we seemed to handball to the next target which may or may not have been in a spot to be released when their were other options clear from congestion that we failed to see BUT where more difficult to get the handball to. I'm guessing that with the above mentioned to return these options may be used more effectively.

All in all i like what i saw. Some green shoots are definitely there, and with 78 v 134 rotations makes it more amazing.

I think we probably would have won if the rotations were even, and definitely would have won if the rotations were reversed.
Even though just NAB, everyone blows up in the first match and need to regain match fitness...so such a big difference in rotations would have a major effect..so good effort by the boys against the reigning premier.

I also noted the Cas, Lamb and Wright centring to top of the square, from spots you often see shots at goal. I wonder if we would do that in the real season...i suspect it was only for the NAB to practice centering and crumbing in our F50...Lambs and Wrights were gettable snaps.

Agree too many of our handballs didn't draw the man, and so the team mate receiving was still in trouble...with practice hopefully we'll be able to ensure our handball releases our team mate into space, like Hawthorn do so well/

 

[HARKER]

I think we're all reading just a little too much in this one outing.

Bolton would have been very happy with Whiley and Kerridge for effort and for some execution.
Even when they didn't take possession of the ball themselves, they made it hard on the opposition.

Will be nice to have some more clean hands around the contest and no doubt Murphy and Cripps will give us that.
Still not sure why Docherty hasn't been trialed through the centre............maybe a little later in the year?

 

[thylacine60]

Tutt and Whiley were both good last night so not sure what game you were watching ??

It's called an opinion, Mb. You just had one too.

 

[F_therest]

If Boeky is a bust - how would Ralph describe Ahern?

Imagine if we had taken McCarthy and kept #7 and drafted Ahern.

We'd have McCarthy handcuffing us to trading him home and could have a seriously injured Ahern...along with no Cripps, Boek, Whiley and Jaksch.

 

[F_therest]

I admit I still get nervous when Whiley has the ball at the moment but I dare say he's been watching the likes of Crippa at the coal face because some of his contested and extracting work reminded me of Paddy. Doesn't have Paddy's vision to get handballs to the best spot, but I can see there's something to work with IMO.

Potential for sure...and hopefully as we get more familiar with our game plan and positioning, it will be easier for Whiley to find a target instinctively as he will basically already know where a team mate will be standing etc

 

[thylacine60]

Imagine if we had taken McCarthy and kept #7 and drafted Ahern.

We'd have McCarthy handcuffing us to trading him home and could have a seriously injured Ahern...along with no Cripps, Boek, Whiley and Jaksch.

stop please

 

[Stamos]

Lots of positives, but our forwardline is a worry. Our crumbing was really poor.

 

[F_therest]

The biggest positive for me was the style of play Bolton had us playing and for a quarter it beat the Hawks. Then they hit back and their better skills and drilling beat us easily.

The forward line is so far away from being functional and again we were bombing it in when the only time we looked good was when we looked for the shorter pass in or the player in space at least (Gorringe and Everitt marks).

The midfield is serviceable at the stoppages but the second it gets out in the open the defense is under pressure. The defenders did great last night all things considered but they can't rebound properly if they're under the pump like that.

The forward line struggles from having to help the defense too and they can't play their natural game. The first quarter the mids were doing their job and we looked dangerous whenever it went i50.

Individually there were glimpses from a few and apart from Graham, Kreuzer, Boekhorst and Levi I wasn't that pleased with anyone else. It's only the first praccy match so who cares but Kerridge is much tidier with disposal at training and would like to see Phillips keep his feet more in a contest like Kreuzer does when ploughing through play.

Lamb showed a bit of mongrel and showed he's willing to run up the ground and was silky. I think at the very least he can surpass Menzel's output (not a hard task)...from what I've seen of him in the preseason though he's very skillful and there's great scope for improvement.

Boekhorst and Graham looked great with ball in hand but unlike a Cripps or Murphy they aren't the types to hunt the ball and get it themselves. I wish we had an outside player that could decide a game like Isaac Smith but maybe another draft.

Docherty looked good higher up the ground and around the ball. Think he could be that outside player I talked about. Thomas could perhaps take his spot down back, looked much better setting up play with the game in front of him.

Byrne was a little fumbly and didn't look totally in line with the speed of the game but he's missed chunks of the preseason and not played footy in a while so he gets a pass.

Not much else I can remember except that the umpiring was horrible and our Tassie support was great. I'll be cementing Graham into my 22 while the likes of Tutt, Whiley and White only showed we need to keep them in the twos if we're to really succeed...they're simply too flawed IMO.

Bit harsh on Whiley. Overall he had a good game and was actually one of our better players (only played first half).

 

[1981]

I know this isn't a recruitment thread, but it is arguably related to last night's game (and is related to my previous post)... if we can get a midfielder like Prestia without giving up pick one (assuming we finish last - not that I am predicting that, I am just saying pick one for the sake of it !) and then we take a good mid at pick 1, then we are on our way.

 

[1981]

I think we're all reading just a little too much in this one outing.

Bolton would have been very happy with Whiley and Kerridge for effort and for some execution.
Even when they didn't take possession of the ball themselves, they made it hard on the opposition.

Will be nice to have some more clean hands around the contest and no doubt Murphy and Cripps will give us that.
Still not sure why Docherty hasn't been trialed through the centre............maybe a little later in the year?

I think they need the likes of Byrne and Sheehan and Buckley and whoever else to really stamp themselves as very good defenders, then maybe release Doc. Need a firm defence when you are a bottom rung side, to try and limit the carnage and Doc is excellent and reading the entry of balls into the DF50 and intercepting. Could well be later in the year he migrates up the ground.

 

[F_therest]

Cripps will like having Kerridge around.

Pleasing to see a good game plan and adherence to it and to better structures, and Graham the other clear highlight.

And a few others show glimpses which is nice.

Some of the others showed the same deficiencies we have seen before, but most of us wouldn't have had them in the reckoning for the long term.

Overall not a bad outing for us, especially given the lopsided rotations.

Remember, it will be a long journey for Carlton and their fans. It is about adding youngish players who are up to it (ie: talent wise) over time, and developing them and the game plan and the culture.

Right now I am on the Bolton Bandwagon.

With guys like Cripps, Kerridge, Curnow, Graham & Whiley in our midfield next year we'll certainly make opposition midfields have to earn it...i can see great tackling intent from that group and then you add Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, Boek & Cuningham for a bit more silk.

Though we've been very good at clearances and contested possessions for a few years now...its retaining the ball we struggle at.

 

[F_therest]

Like most still not sold on "Jones" but further in terms of him not being able to mark the ball was slippery in the second half and even Cas had a couple that went through the dukes.

Looks like some semblence of Ratten's kamikaze gameplan last night... just wish we'd be a little more compose entering our forward 50... give it time!

Also to be fair...i watched the replay today and none of Jones' marks were 'easy'.
A couple low to the ground he had to dive for, one a bit high over his head, a few others when the defender was able to just get a hand in (maybe Jones' positioning could have been better?).

Yes it would be nice to see him mark at least a few of them, but its not like he spilt absolute gimme's.

 

[F_therest]

What I like about Boekhorst is that even though he doesn't get alot of footy, he generally makes them count. I reckon the best passage of play last night was his in the second quarter down that outer wing.

Lets hope his fitness has improved enough that he can contribute for 4 quarters in a 90 rotation game though...does anyone have any reports on how his fitness levels are going?