National Draft - Luke Ball

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Age is reporting this morning that Melbourne may use their #18 on Ball.

Whichever way this goes Ball is going to have to indicate he is not interested in Melbourne and his preference is for Collingwood. His price is going to need to scare a lot of clubs off.

Need to be careful with draft tampering but clearly Melb are going to ask "do you want to come here" and he / his manager needs to give a response suggesting otherwise.

Ball hopefully is taking some comfort in the fact Collingwood tried everything and didnt look to an alternative solution for an inside mid all week. The fact he turned up at the negotiations and reportedly had words with Lyon suggests there is no going back. Melbourne dont present as an option because they wont be finals ready for some time. North would be in the mix I would have thought but would be unlikely to use #21 on him.

The other smoky in the mix for us here is Jesse Smith. Essendon have a selection in front of us for the PSD but if they missed on him then I think we would be looking at him there.

If we miss on Ball we miss on Ball. Ultimately I think the price they were asking was to high anyway. How Wellers and #30 didnt equate to an effective #21 is beyond me. Scott must not have rated Wellers at all.

The other smoky is Tuck. If Collingwood gteed him a path thru the PSD then can Rich release him notwithstanding he is contracted?
 
Melbourne will not use pick 18 on Ball. Dean Bailey has said they won't, in fact he ridiculously believes they will try to use their next pick, pick 34 to take him. I mean we are the team Ball wants to move to and were very much willing to use our pick 30 to get him, but come draft time, if he's available we let him slide to Melbourne? Here's the article anyway:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26197520-5018851,00.html
 

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Good point Dundalis. I don’t think Ball’s wish to join the Magpies is totally squashed. And I don’t think Collingwood will let him go if they can fit him in to the side. If they both want it, well, I guess we’ll have to wait and see...
 
just a few questions here

ball will not do anything prejudicial to his chances of playing - yep he can place an inflated salary figure on his head for the first year but he won't say that he'll only play for collingwood either publically or in talks with other clubs as this is draft tampering.

ball is an allaustralian, best and fairest and ex-captain who still was in reasonable form throughout the year especially interms of the all important clearance and contested possession numbers. it sounds like he wanted to go to collingwood on the understanding that collingwood would go hard to get the trade done. in my mind somebody like wellingham - who is often in and out of the side + #30 wouldn't get it done. from the pies perspective - would you accept a fringe player from another club and a second round pick for, say, dale thomas? the trade system in this case ignores future potential for immediate benefit to the sides involved - ball would be a good fit for collingwood - wellingham and goldsack would only ever have been top-up/fringe players at st kilda given people like gilbert and sam fisher + ray/macqualter et al that go through the saints midfield.

no trade - ball can blame st kilda/lyon for being a dick and collingwood for not making the offer incredibly tempting - i'm sure the truth lies in between. i'm also sure that the long term trading benefit to st kilda will be positive because clubs will realise that they will not let players just slide for nothing - a case in point is the fact that port got two first round picks for an older more broken burgoyne which i believe was partially due to the nick stevens case involving collingwood and carlton.

historically, once players get to a new club (even if they've intimated a club of preference that they didn't get to) they rarely swap onwards - i can only think of one case - buckley.

having said all that, bailey from melb is silly to rule out taking him with#18 and if that's the case he may well end up at collingwood
 
It's whether teams with an abundance of picks (there are a few after trade week) are likely to take him before pick 30. There are a few that you would think would take a punt. That is if he nominates for the National Draft which you would think is likely, the only reason he wouldn't would be if he definately wanted to go to Melbourne.

Having looked at the draft order, North Melbourne and West Coast, with two picks each in the 20's would probably be more than willing to use one of them on Luke Ball. Only chance would be Ball strongly indicated his aversion to moving there and them not taking him due to not wanting a player whom was unwilling to play for their club.
 
finn said:
just a few questions here

ball will not do anything prejudicial to his chances of playing - yep he can place an inflated salary figure on his head for the first year but he won't say that he'll only play for collingwood either publically or in talks with other clubs as this is draft tampering.

ball is an allaustralian, best and fairest and ex-captain who still was in reasonable form throughout the year especially interms of the all important clearance and contested possession numbers. it sounds like he wanted to go to collingwood on the understanding that collingwood would go hard to get the trade done. in my mind somebody like wellingham - who is often in and out of the side + #30 wouldn't get it done. from the pies perspective - would you accept a fringe player from another club and a second round pick for, say, dale thomas? the trade system in this case ignores future potential for immediate benefit to the sides involved - ball would be a good fit for collingwood - wellingham and goldsack would only ever have been top-up/fringe players at st kilda given people like gilbert and sam fisher + ray/macqualter et al that go through the saints midfield.

no trade - ball can blame st kilda/lyon for being a dick and collingwood for not making the offer incredibly tempting - i'm sure the truth lies in between. i'm also sure that the long term trading benefit to st kilda will be positive because clubs will realise that they will not let players just slide for nothing - a case in point is the fact that port got two first round picks for an older more broken burgoyne which i believe was partially due to the nick stevens case involving collingwood and carlton.

historically, once players get to a new club (even if they've intimated a club of preference that they didn't get to) they rarely swap onwards - i can only think of one case - buckley.

having said all that, bailey from melb is silly to rule out taking him with#18 and if that's the case he may well end up at collingwood
Click to expand...

no, dale is a no 3 ND pick and allthough he hasnt lived up to our expectations theres still plenty of time, i do think though if he doesnt have a breakout year in 2010 we"ll see what the GC would offer for him as he is very marketable, it would have to be a pretty good offer though. also luke ball finished 9 in the BaF last year and would struggle to make the top 18 this year.
 
Actually what I don't understand from Melbourne's point of view, is they had a younger, similarly injury prone version of Luke Ball, whom they traded away. Why are they now after Ball, when they could have just kept McLean?
 
Bailey also said that Ball would need to decide if he wanted to come to Melbourne - it sounds like they will pitch to him but if he does not want to come they won't take him.

Apparently Ball was a Pies supporter as a kid.
 
finn said:
just a few questions here

ball will not do anything prejudicial to his chances of playing - yep he can place an inflated salary figure on his head for the first year but he won't say that he'll only play for collingwood either publically or in talks with other clubs as this is draft tampering.

ball is an allaustralian, best and fairest and ex-captain who still was in reasonable form throughout the year especially interms of the all important clearance and contested possession numbers. it sounds like he wanted to go to collingwood on the understanding that collingwood would go hard to get the trade done. in my mind somebody like wellingham - who is often in and out of the side + #30 wouldn't get it done. from the pies perspective - would you accept a fringe player from another club and a second round pick for, say, dale thomas? the trade system in this case ignores future potential for immediate benefit to the sides involved - ball would be a good fit for collingwood - wellingham and goldsack would only ever have been top-up/fringe players at st kilda given people like gilbert and sam fisher + ray/macqualter et al that go through the saints midfield.

no trade - ball can blame st kilda/lyon for being a dick and collingwood for not making the offer incredibly tempting - i'm sure the truth lies in between. i'm also sure that the long term trading benefit to st kilda will be positive because clubs will realise that they will not let players just slide for nothing - a case in point is the fact that port got two first round picks for an older more broken burgoyne which i believe was partially due to the nick stevens case involving collingwood and carlton.

historically, once players get to a new club (even if they've intimated a club of preference that they didn't get to) they rarely swap onwards - i can only think of one case - buckley.

having said all that, bailey from melb is silly to rule out taking him with#18 and if that's the case he may well end up at collingwood
Click to expand...
He doesn't have to say he will only play for Collingwood. He can however, indicate to any club besides Collingwood that interviews him, that he is unwilling to join their club. Of course they could still take him, but I would think unless a club is desperate they would generally look a bit silly taking a player who had let it be known had no interest in playing for them.

Also can players dictate length of contract before the draft in addition to price? I would think so, therefore Ball with his injury history could, I would think ask for say 4 years, which would in addition to price make clubs think twice about taking him over a young player with such a high ND pick.

Wellingham is 20 years old and is as naturally talented a midfielder as any young mid on our list. It's just between the ears for him, which is a problem he is struggling to get over. If he were more switched on during games, you would be putting him alongside the likes of Beams and Sidebottom in terms of potential. Athletically and skillwise hes a very good talent.

The Saints don't have a lot of quick midfielders, and the change of scenery might have been what it takes Wellers to get switched on, therefore him and pick 30 IMO would have been a good trade.
 
i honestly not getting the point of this thread, think we had our chance to get ball and for whatever reason couldn't get it done. He's a great player and imo would have helped us bigtime but don't think there is anyway he will be at collingwood next season!!
 
But Jazzy, it is clear that there IS a way for him to get to Collingwood.

He nominates for the National draft and we take him with pick 30. I think we are a 40-50% chance of seeing this happen. That is not to scoff at.

I don't think West Coast will, because they are in their rebuilding phase. I also don't think North will.

The risks are Brisbane, Adelaide, and Carlton in my opinion. Maybe Essendon. All with picks in the mid / late 20s. But if they pick him up, it pushes another player out to us.
 
King Woodie said:
But Jazzy, it is clear that there IS a way for him to get to Collingwood.

He nominates for the National draft and we take him with pick 30. I think we are a 40-50% chance of seeing this happen. That is not to scoff at.

I don't think West Coast will, because they are in their rebuilding phase. I also don't think North will.

The risks are Brisbane, Adelaide, and Carlton in my opinion. Maybe Essendon. All with picks in the mid / late 20s. But if they pick him up, it pushes another player out to us.
Click to expand...

i think you just proved my point, no way he lasts till 30!!
 

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jazzy said:
i honestly not getting the point of this thread, think we had our chance to get ball and for whatever reason couldn't get it done. He's a great player and imo would have helped us bigtime but don't think there is anyway he will be at collingwood next season!!
Click to expand...

Well he may, but it's in the lap of the footy gods.
 
Okay if Brock Mclean was worth pick 11 then you'd think Ball would be worth taking somewhere outside pick 11. Interstate clubs might not chance it, but Lions (27), Sydney (6, 14), Crows (13, 29), Port (8,9,16), Freo (4, 20) and Eagles (7,22, 23) all have multiple picks before ours so may be willing to risk their last one before ours. Given West Coast was willing to risk a top 20 pick in a deep draft on an injuried Swift you'd think that clubs would consider taking a chance on Ball. Lions would surely be willing to continue to load up and take a chance on him if they thought he'd be willing to move up north.

If he's not willing to move outside of Vic you'd think that the Bulldogs (15) can't afford him and the Cats (17, 28) can't either. The problem for us is that there are a number of other clubs before us that would be willing to pick him up. Richmond (3, 19), Dees (1, 2, 18), North (5, 21, 25) and Essendon (24, 26) would all consider taking him. He's young enough for the developing lists to take on and in a light draft worth spending one of your picks outside the top 15. Carlton (12) might go for him, but I would have thought that with Mclean they'd be content with their inside mids, but maybe they see it as a cheap bargain? However you spin it I just can't see Ball lasting all the way to pick 30. If he gets there then yeah lets swoop.
 
Bonuspoints said:
Okay if Brock Mclean was worth pick 11 then you'd think Ball would be worth taking somewhere outside pick 11. Interstate clubs might not chance it, but Lions (27), Sydney (6, 14), Crows (13, 29), Port (8,9,16), Freo (4, 20) and Eagles (7,22, 23) all have multiple picks before ours so may be willing to risk their last one before ours. Given West Coast was willing to risk a top 20 pick in a deep draft on an injuried Swift you'd think that clubs would consider taking a chance on Ball. Lions would surely be willing to continue to load up and take a chance on him if they thought he'd be willing to move up north.

If he's not willing to move outside of Vic you'd think that the Bulldogs (15) can't afford him and the Cats (17, 28) can't either. The problem for us is that there are a number of other clubs before us that would be willing to pick him up. Richmond (3, 19), Dees (1, 2, 18), North (5, 21, 25) and Essendon (24, 26) would all consider taking him. He's young enough for the developing lists to take on and in a light draft worth spending one of your picks outside the top 15. Carlton (12) might go for him, but I would have thought that with Mclean they'd be content with their inside mids, but maybe they see it as a cheap bargain? However you spin it I just can't see Ball lasting all the way to pick 30. If he gets there then yeah lets swoop.
Click to expand...
I would almost guarantee that no club will take Luke Ball within the top 20 picks. It's too high for a player with an injury history and whom may not be happy going to your club to risk when a top 20 pick generally has a fairly decent chance of being a quality player.

That said there is every chance he will be taken between picks 20-30. I suppose it will come down to Ball and what he wants, whether he is happy going to any other club, or wants to go to Collingwood, and therefore informs other clubs that he is not interested. Which you would think may be enough to put off the clubs picking within that range of which there are only 5 clubs given North, Essendon and West Coast all have 2 picks each in that range.
 
Bonuspoints said:
Okay if Brock Mclean was worth pick 11 then you'd think Ball would be worth taking somewhere outside pick 11. Interstate clubs might not chance it, but Lions (27), Sydney (6, 14), Crows (13, 29), Port (8,9,16), Freo (4, 20) and Eagles (7,22, 23) all have multiple picks before ours so may be willing to risk their last one before ours. Given West Coast was willing to risk a top 20 pick in a deep draft on an injuried Swift you'd think that clubs would consider taking a chance on Ball. Lions would surely be willing to continue to load up and take a chance on him if they thought he'd be willing to move up north.

If he's not willing to move outside of Vic you'd think that the Bulldogs (15) can't afford him and the Cats (17, 28) can't either. The problem for us is that there are a number of other clubs before us that would be willing to pick him up. Richmond (3, 19), Dees (1, 2, 18), North (5, 21, 25) and Essendon (24, 26) would all consider taking him. He's young enough for the developing lists to take on and in a light draft worth spending one of your picks outside the top 15. Carlton (12) might go for him, but I would have thought that with Mclean they'd be content with their inside mids, but maybe they see it as a cheap bargain? However you spin it I just can't see Ball lasting all the way to pick 30. If he gets there then yeah lets swoop.
Click to expand...
you have to remember the inflated salary, the clubs will have consider if he"s worth 600 or so k per year.
 
King Woodie said:
But Jazzy, it is clear that there IS a way for him to get to Collingwood.

He nominates for the National draft and we take him with pick 30. I think we are a 40-50% chance of seeing this happen. That is not to scoff at.

I don't think West Coast will, because they are in their rebuilding phase. I also don't think North will.

The risks are Brisbane, Adelaide, and Carlton in my opinion. Maybe Essendon. All with picks in the mid / late 20s. But if they pick him up, it pushes another player out to us.
Click to expand...

Brisbane won't have the salary cap space. carlton don't have a 2nd round pick. Doubt they'd use pick 12 on him. Crows possibility.

Given which clubs have which pick, if he nominates for the ND, the Dees won't take him as he would have already had discussions with them and if he wanted to play for them he goes to the PSD and they get him for zip and use pick 18 on a kid.

Dangers would be:

Eagles outside chance 22 or 23
Essendon with 24 or 26 (They were keen during trade week before he nominated us)
NM 25
Crows 29

Either way he'll finish up going for a very similar pick to the one we offered (25) showing we offered market value.
 
I've resigned to the fact that Luke Ball will not be playing for us next year, sure it's disapointing but the more your harp on it the more disapointed you will be when it's made official.
 
i hope we pick lule up at pick 30 it would be a great bargain for a 2nd round draft pick who has many footballing years ahead of him and it would also piss off st kilda even more which is even better.

ive also noticed some good players that i was suprised geelong delisted that maybe we could pick up with a late pick or psd. Scott Simpson, Adam Donohue and Kane Tenace any thoughts?

 
wadethompson said:
i hope we pick lule up at pick 30 it would be a great bargain for a 2nd round draft pick who has many footballing years ahead of him and it would also piss off st kilda even more which is even better.

ive also noticed some good players that i was suprised geelong delisted that maybe we could pick up with a late pick or psd. Scott Simpson, Adam Donohue and Kane Tenace any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Stay away is all I say.

List space is paramount.
 
Dundalis said:
Actually what I don't understand from Melbourne's point of view, is they had a younger, similarly injury prone version of Luke Ball, whom they traded away. Why are they now after Ball, when they could have just kept McLean?
Click to expand...

They wanted to, but McLean was out of contract and asked for a trade, Carlton offered a decent deal so they took it.
 

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