I'm very confident we will all look back in 5 years and say thankfully we drafted Jagga instead of Houston.
List Mgmt. Nick Austin - Head Of List Management
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Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
Lemmey isn't skinny but perhaps not lean, the consistency of his speed and power is concerning for a full-time athlete in the system for over 2 years.
I wanted Keeler in that draft, and if we'd acquired him he'd probably have played for us last year.
IMO Keeler won’t make it. Neither will Lemmey.
It’s weird how the tags on these threads change. What’s the point?
JustaBattler
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He is now into his third year in a professional AFL system ...so many players not willing to invest in their own professional best self on this list - ridiculously low standards.
Im over the lot of them.
I asked about Lemmey in pre season. He was training well and doing all that was asked. In match sims he did some great things. Issue is he either plays like Stephen Kernahan or Lewis Young and there is no in between. Although he leans mostly to the latter.
My fear he is just doesn't have the competiveness or mental strength to play AFL. Has all the natural traits but I reckon it's between the ears with him as he is very fit and a great athelete
I just hope I'm wrong and it clicks
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The Blue Weirdo
Premiership Player
Same as HOF and MCarroll instead of Kennedy and Owies.
Seems to be a commentary from “someone” regarding the content being posted.
An inaccurate one, based on my reading of the thread.
Couldn't believe how weak and ineffective he looked in the VFL game. Completely unable to impose himself on the contest.
He's now a good size, he's playing against undersized opponents. Needs to decide if he wants it and fast.
Beyond Blue
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But in 5 years will Jagga have delivered us more or the same as Joe Berry and Trainor…
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First I saw of Lemmy, my opinion was that he is not an AFL footballer and he has only confirmed this. Sometimes players come good. I doubt Lemmy will be in the AFL next season. His overhead game is weak. His one on one contesting is very weak. He plays with a very obvious fear of body contact and won't put himself in a good position if he feels he will get hit nor will he extend his arms. IMO he may have some good athletic qualities and skills be he is nowhere near an AFL footballer.
There will be a clean out of players end of the year. Evans, Haynes, Fantasia, Monohan, and White are going to need to do more. Haynes will likely go around again if fit.
As good as he is, we may need to make a decision on McGovern. Probably offer him a contract he may not like but he may have to take it.
I think we will listen to other clubs regarding DeKoning and Kemp.
I think we will sign Silvagni.
The contract length of Durdin, E Hollands, Binns, Fogarty, Young, Williams and Cottrell is mind boggling to me. I think we are in a situation now where we are regretting the length of their contracts, it's really choking up the list. Lets face it. These are the sorts of players who go in and out of clubs like Geelong all the time, the don't hang onto players like this. And here we are recruiting loads and loads of players of this quality and signing them on long contracts and resigning them just because they can get 10 possessions and kick half a goal a game. I don't think our coach has been hard enough on our bottom end and put enough pressure on list management. Our player turnover has been too low for too long and it's starting to show. Contract length to very low level VFL level footballers is also a joke. There has been a lot of overrating players at our club. This is one of the reasons Ratten's list management failed.
There will be a clean out of players end of the year. Evans, Haynes, Fantasia, Monohan, and White are going to need to do more. Haynes will likely go around again if fit.
As good as he is, we may need to make a decision on McGovern. Probably offer him a contract he may not like but he may have to take it.
I think we will listen to other clubs regarding DeKoning and Kemp.
I think we will sign Silvagni.
The contract length of Durdin, E Hollands, Binns, Fogarty, Young, Williams and Cottrell is mind boggling to me. I think we are in a situation now where we are regretting the length of their contracts, it's really choking up the list. Lets face it. These are the sorts of players who go in and out of clubs like Geelong all the time, the don't hang onto players like this. And here we are recruiting loads and loads of players of this quality and signing them on long contracts and resigning them just because they can get 10 possessions and kick half a goal a game. I don't think our coach has been hard enough on our bottom end and put enough pressure on list management. Our player turnover has been too low for too long and it's starting to show. Contract length to very low level VFL level footballers is also a joke. There has been a lot of overrating players at our club. This is one of the reasons Ratten's list management failed.
Jimmae
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The Old Dark Navy's
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I changed it. I didn't have a range to choose from. Universal love, toast, roast or scapegoat were my options.
Gawd … not much flex in those options.
Saviour. Messiah. Satan’s Son … I’m sure the BF nerd-herders can do better.
I’m leading a petition. Storming the Capitol if that doesn’t work.
How does White need to do more....he hasn't played a senior game yet.
Smalls that can't mark or kick goals. Talls that lack aggression and can't use the body. Can we think a bit harder?
Too top heavy with the contracts , the length of every contract is too long for fringe players and over rating the list has been the issue …our top players have had brilliant years and we scrap in the 8 or just miss … I get the feeling we are going to have a really bad year and the year we can’t afford to swap our picks to hawks is the year we go bad … just our luck … Austin needs r ok pull his finger out and find some speed and small forward and a key back … not sure how he does it
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A lot of criticism for Nick regarding the state of the list, which is all fair but not as much in depth discussion about the state of our salary cap.
I have said for ages, regardless of what the club or anyone else says, our actions are a better indicator of where we sit and we have been shopping in the bargain box for players for years, not only this but we have been trading contracted and depth players for a few years now too.
By not bringing in any quality players, constantly looking for bargains, trading contracted players and not being interested when a dual AA wants to come, says all i need to know about the state of our cap.
We then have a team like Hawthorn who finished above us last year, who can go out and shore up their defence with two solid additions and by reports are in to Oscar Allan this year.
Collingwood who finished one below us after a consistent run at the top, who go out and get Perryman and Houston
The Cats who have been better than us for god knows how long have the $$$ to go out and get Smith.
Serious questions need to be asked about why we have no room in the cap to target players in areas of need and have very little draft capital to target players as well. I have long thought Austin to be too generous at the trade table and I wouldn’t be surprised if that has extended to the contracts he has offered players.
I have said for ages, regardless of what the club or anyone else says, our actions are a better indicator of where we sit and we have been shopping in the bargain box for players for years, not only this but we have been trading contracted and depth players for a few years now too.
By not bringing in any quality players, constantly looking for bargains, trading contracted players and not being interested when a dual AA wants to come, says all i need to know about the state of our cap.
We then have a team like Hawthorn who finished above us last year, who can go out and shore up their defence with two solid additions and by reports are in to Oscar Allan this year.
Collingwood who finished one below us after a consistent run at the top, who go out and get Perryman and Houston
The Cats who have been better than us for god knows how long have the $$$ to go out and get Smith.
Serious questions need to be asked about why we have no room in the cap to target players in areas of need and have very little draft capital to target players as well. I have long thought Austin to be too generous at the trade table and I wouldn’t be surprised if that has extended to the contracts he has offered players.
BlueBlood15
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Bingo. In a salary cap system, value for money is absolutely imperative. Geelong are the gold standard for this over the past 15 years.
We’re looking like a middling team (perhaps worse based on the Richmond loss) with clear list deficiencies (skill, speed, small forwards, second KPD) and seemingly a close to maxed out salary cap.
The list is too top heavy with big money contracts. The only way that works is if you nail late picks and find cheap acquisitions from other clubs, but we haven’t had enough success in this respect for a long time, both under SOS and now Austin.
Les Grossman playaaaa
Team Captain
I have a theory (my opinion only), after this year, we will go hard for players/FA's. The reasoning behind this is our players out of contract over the next few years.
2025
1. Jack Silvagni
3. Jesse Motlop
11. Mitch McGovern
12. Tom De Koning
14. Orazio Fantasia
15. Sam Docherty
17. Brodie Kemp
24. Nic Newman
26. Nick Haynes
29. George Hewett (RFA)
31. Harry Lemmey
32. Matt Carroll (Pre-season SSP 2025) ?
34. Rob Monahan (International Rookie Cat B)
35. Billy Wilson
38. Will White (Pre-Season SSP Rookie 2025) ?
39. Alex Cincotta (Pre-season SSP 2023)
41. Matt Duffy (International Rookie Cat B) ?
44. Francis Evans (Pre-Season SSP Rookie 2025) ?
Only 1 player in 2025 is possibly worthy of commanding big money - TDK. It will probably be a long term contract that will put him into the 2030's
I believe the rest aren't in a position to dictate contract duration an/or dollars.
2026
2. Lachie Cowan
4. Ollie Hollands
6. Zac Williams
8. Lachie Fogarty
16. Ben Camporeale?
18. Sam Walsh
19. Corey Durdin
20. Elijah Hollands
21. Lucas Camporeale?
22. Harry O'Farrell?
25. Jaxon Binns
28. Harry Charleson (Rookie)?
33. Lewis Young
36. Cooper Lord - MSD (Rookie)
37. Jordan Boyd
40. Hudson O'Keeffe (Pre-season SSP 2023)
42. Adam Saad
43. Ashton Moir
Potentially 2 players in 2026. One being Walsh that will also put him into the 2030's, and the other might be Cowan, who will probably receive some interest from Tassie, but I feel we should retain.
There may be a couple that have breakout years between now and the end of their contracts, but I'm of the opinion the rest aren't in a position to dictate contract duration an/or dollars.
2027
7. Jagga Smith
9. Patrick Cripps
13. Blake Acres
27. Mark Pittonett
46. Matthew Cottrell
Of the current 2027 list, Cripps may go on a year by year contract, Acres might get 2 years and Jagga, if he's proven himself, will probably get either an earlier extension or years from here to get him into the 2030's. Pitto probably gone and I don't believe Cotters will be able to dictate terms.
There will obviously be other players added to the 2027 list but I can't see any of the existing listed players in the years above staking a claim for many years beyond apart from the ones I've bolded.
WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PLAYERS OUT OF CONTRACT IN 2028.
At present we have the following after this
2029 - Charlie Curnow
2030 - Adam Cerra
2030 - Harry McKay
2031 - Jacob Weitering
To me this reads of a strategy to acquire players over the period that Tassie come in and compromise the draft and, I'm of the opinion, they already have an idea of the players they want to bring in over the next few years and are positioning us to be able to get them.
2025
1. Jack Silvagni
3. Jesse Motlop
11. Mitch McGovern
12. Tom De Koning
14. Orazio Fantasia
15. Sam Docherty
17. Brodie Kemp
24. Nic Newman
26. Nick Haynes
29. George Hewett (RFA)
31. Harry Lemmey
32. Matt Carroll (Pre-season SSP 2025) ?
34. Rob Monahan (International Rookie Cat B)
35. Billy Wilson
38. Will White (Pre-Season SSP Rookie 2025) ?
39. Alex Cincotta (Pre-season SSP 2023)
41. Matt Duffy (International Rookie Cat B) ?
44. Francis Evans (Pre-Season SSP Rookie 2025) ?
Only 1 player in 2025 is possibly worthy of commanding big money - TDK. It will probably be a long term contract that will put him into the 2030's
I believe the rest aren't in a position to dictate contract duration an/or dollars.
2026
2. Lachie Cowan
4. Ollie Hollands
6. Zac Williams
8. Lachie Fogarty
16. Ben Camporeale?
18. Sam Walsh
19. Corey Durdin
20. Elijah Hollands
21. Lucas Camporeale?
22. Harry O'Farrell?
25. Jaxon Binns
28. Harry Charleson (Rookie)?
33. Lewis Young
36. Cooper Lord - MSD (Rookie)
37. Jordan Boyd
40. Hudson O'Keeffe (Pre-season SSP 2023)
42. Adam Saad
43. Ashton Moir
Potentially 2 players in 2026. One being Walsh that will also put him into the 2030's, and the other might be Cowan, who will probably receive some interest from Tassie, but I feel we should retain.
There may be a couple that have breakout years between now and the end of their contracts, but I'm of the opinion the rest aren't in a position to dictate contract duration an/or dollars.
2027
7. Jagga Smith
9. Patrick Cripps
13. Blake Acres
27. Mark Pittonett
46. Matthew Cottrell
Of the current 2027 list, Cripps may go on a year by year contract, Acres might get 2 years and Jagga, if he's proven himself, will probably get either an earlier extension or years from here to get him into the 2030's. Pitto probably gone and I don't believe Cotters will be able to dictate terms.
There will obviously be other players added to the 2027 list but I can't see any of the existing listed players in the years above staking a claim for many years beyond apart from the ones I've bolded.
WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PLAYERS OUT OF CONTRACT IN 2028.
At present we have the following after this
2029 - Charlie Curnow
2030 - Adam Cerra
2030 - Harry McKay
2031 - Jacob Weitering
To me this reads of a strategy to acquire players over the period that Tassie come in and compromise the draft and, I'm of the opinion, they already have an idea of the players they want to bring in over the next few years and are positioning us to be able to get them.
Your comparisons to other clubs (Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong) are much too narrow by year, rather than acknowledging that list management is a multi-year long-term process.
Geelong can afford Smith because their gun players have retired or are retiring soon. Stewart and Cameron are both 2 years older than Cripps. Dangerfield 5 years older.
Collingwood, except for Daicos, are similar. Their stars are old and they have no gun KPPs, so they can afford to pay a fortune for flankers.
Hawthorn had saved cash for years by going to the draft. Then they missed on McKay and Ratugolea, so they had money to pay up huge for a Battle and Barrass.
The 2 big differences with our list is that we drafted 6 guns (4 of them talls), and that we went on our big acquisition phase in 2020 & 21 (Williams, Saad, Cerra, Hewett), which was sensible given they were COVID drafts.
And since the we’ve made targeted acquisitions while hitting the draft for balance and long term success.
As for our cap specifically, we’re top-heavy no doubt.
Because we were able to draft 6 guns. Other clubs would kill for that. You don’t reckon Mitchell would have preferred to draft Weitering and Charlie rather than having to trade for Barrass and take Battle as a FA?
Then there's Williams’ contract which no doubt is a killer. What can you do? 1 more year after this.
That’s not to say that there’s not a lot of room for improvement for our List Management team. But we should be fair when making those sorts of comparisons.
