Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[WalshistheGOAT]

As per my assessment, Daicos was clearly the best player in the game in 2023, and I've shared the rationale for that assessment.

Though I do understand why others would have had Bont ahead of him - the fact he missed fewer games and had a greater leadership role in his team.

And was statistically better in nearly every category that matters...

Just because you 'imagined' Nicki was the best player in the comp doesn't mean he was.

 

[Arr0w]

To Arr0w's question about Sheezel having a better first year than Daicos....

I didn't see enough North Melbourne games to have an informed opinion on this.

What is undisputable is that Sheezel had a great season, awarded his Club Best and Fairest in his first season.

From what I saw, he seemed to play a similar role to Daicos in his first season, and was a very good ball user and decision maker.

But Sheezel does seem 'safer' and 'less creative' than Daicos with ball in hand, though that is what sets Daicos apart from most other players in the competition.

Sheezel also won his B&F in a poor team, whereas Daicos was playing in a team who narrowly missed out on a Grand Final birth in his first season.

However, this thread was started on the back of Daicos' second season, so let's see if Sheezel can reach similar heights in 2024 that were reached by Daicos in 2023.

To Arr0w - feel free to share why you believe Sheezel's first season was clearly superior to that of Daicos, on the assumption you saw enough of both of them play to arrive at an informed opinion.

Clearly unlike yourself, I watch every game

Sheezel had Nicki covered in the majority of metrics, factual metrics, which are unbiased

Next, Selwood won rising star and a flag in his first year and was younger than Nicki

Was Selwood's debut year better than Nicki?

2 players, 1 retired, 1 a year younger

 

[Sector 7G]

Incorrect.

The 'facts' are that he IS rated THE BEST young player in the game, and undisputedly in the best handful of players in the game.

If you're in any doubt, check out the various lists of Top 50 players shared by the various media outlets leading into the 2024 season.

They all had Bont and Daicos in the top 2 (in either order).

This was on the back of him undisputedly performing as one of the best two players in the game (with Bont), in only his second season.

Unless you can share alternate 'facts'?

Who rates him as the best? You state an opinion as if it was a fact.

If you look at ND's season last year 6 votes against teams that made the finals and they were playing of hb early in the season. He had a purple patch of 4 3 vote games against non finalist to then not poll a vote in his last 3 games.

Kind of makes him look like a flat track bully rather than the future GOAT.

You also fail to address his numerous "timid" efforts as something that no other elite player in the AFL does with such regularity.

 

[_Mike_]

Was Selwood's debut year better than Nicki?

Player Statistics Comparison​ Debut yr - 2007------------------------------------------ Debut yr - 2022 Joel Selwood​ Name​ Nick Daicos​ Geelong Cats​ Team​ Collingwood Magpies​ Midfield​ Position​ Defender, Midfield​ 355​ Career Games​ 50​ Bendigo​ Origin​ Oakleigh Chargers​ May 26, 1988​ Date of Birth​ January 3, 2003​ Turned 19 in 2007​ Age​ Turned 19 in 2022​ 183cm​ Height​ 184cm​ 84kg​ Weight​ 79kg​ 2006 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2021 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #7​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Geelong Cats​ Last Drafted By​ Collingwood Magpies​ 2007​ Stats for Season​ 2022​ 21​ Games​ 25​ 10.2​ Kicks​ 14.4​ 9.0​ Handballs​ 11.3​ 19.2​ Disposals​ 25.8​ 5.2​ Marks​ 4.1​ 0.3​ Goals​ 0.3​ 0.4​ Behinds​ 0.3​ 4.5​ Tackles​ 2.2​ 0​ Hitouts​ 0​ ​ Inside 50s​ 2.8​ ​ Goal Assists​ 0.3​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.1​ 0.9​ Frees Against​ 0.7​ ​ Contested Possessions​ 6.4​ ​ Uncontested Possessions​ 17.0​ ​ Effective Disposals​ 19.5​ ​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 75.6%​ ​ Clangers​ 3.5​ ​ Contested Marks​ 0​ ​ Marks Inside 50​ 0.1​ ​ Clearances​ 1.6​ ​ Rebound 50s​ 4.1​ ​ One Percenters​ 0.5​ ​ Bounces​ 0.8​ ​ Time On Ground %​ 82.0​ ​ Centre Clearances​ 0.3​ ​ Stoppage Clearances​ 1.3​ ​ Score Involvements​ 4.5​ ​ Metres Gained​ 406.9​ ​ Turnovers​ 4.2​ ​ Intercepts​ 5.3​ ​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.1​ 83.4​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 87.8​ 77.8​ Supercoach Score​ 90.7​

 

[Juddernaut08]

Clearly unlike yourself, I watch every game

Sheezel had Nicki covered in the majority of metrics, factual metrics, which are unbiased

Next, Selwood won rising star and a flag in his first year and was younger than Nicki

Was Selwood's debut year better than Nicki?

2 players, 1 retired, 1 a year younger

Case closed (at least for now).

Nicki has to worry about being the better Daicos brother (Josh has had a solid start to the year despite being a 3x loser), nevermind the GOAT discussion.

 

[Arr0w]

Player Statistics Comparison​ Debut yr - 2007------------------------------------------ Debut yr - 2022 Joel Selwood​ Name​ Nick Daicos​ Geelong Cats​ Team​ Collingwood Magpies​ Midfield​ Position​ Defender, Midfield​ 355​ Career Games​ 50​ Bendigo​ Origin​ Oakleigh Chargers​ May 26, 1988​ Date of Birth​ January 3, 2003​ Turned 19 in 2007​ Age​ Turned 19 in 2022​ 183cm​ Height​ 184cm​ 84kg​ Weight​ 79kg​ 2006 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2021 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #7​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Geelong Cats​ Last Drafted By​ Collingwood Magpies​ 2007​ Stats for Season​ 2022​ 21​ Games​ 25​ 10.2​ Kicks​ 14.4​ 9.0​ Handballs​ 11.3​ 19.2​ Disposals​ 25.8​ 5.2​ Marks​ 4.1​ 0.3​ Goals​ 0.3​ 0.4​ Behinds​ 0.3​ 4.5​ Tackles​ 2.2​ 0​ Hitouts​ 0​ ​ Inside 50s​ 2.8​ ​ Goal Assists​ 0.3​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.1​ 0.9​ Frees Against​ 0.7​ ​ Contested Possessions​ 6.4​ ​ Uncontested Possessions​ 17.0​ ​ Effective Disposals​ 19.5​ ​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 75.6%​ ​ Clangers​ 3.5​ ​ Contested Marks​ 0​ ​ Marks Inside 50​ 0.1​ ​ Clearances​ 1.6​ ​ Rebound 50s​ 4.1​ ​ One Percenters​ 0.5​ ​ Bounces​ 0.8​ ​ Time On Ground %​ 82.0​ ​ Centre Clearances​ 0.3​ ​ Stoppage Clearances​ 1.3​ ​ Score Involvements​ 4.5​ ​ Metres Gained​ 406.9​ ​ Turnovers​ 4.2​ ​ Intercepts​ 5.3​ ​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.1​ 83.4​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 87.8​ 77.8​ Supercoach Score​ 90.7​

If you are suggesting that stats play are part in determining who had the better year, would you concede that the game has changed dramatically in 15 years?

 

[Fadge]

Who rates him as the best? You state an opinion as if it was a fact.

If you look at ND's season last year 6 votes against teams that made the finals and they were playing of hb early in the season. He had a purple patch of 4 3 vote games against non finalist to then not poll a vote in his last 3 games.

Kind of makes him look like a flat track bully rather than the future GOAT.

You also fail to address his numerous "timid" efforts as something that no other elite player in the AFL does with such regularity.

Do the same assessment for Bont.

And we've also covered this ground earlier in this thread.... Daicos' performances against the likes of Adelaide, Bulldogs, Essendon and Geelong were a key reason as to why those teams didn't qualify for finals.

Should he have performed a fraction worse in those games, so as those teams beat us instead of lost to us, so he could have polled more votes against top 8 teams?

 

[Fadge]

If you are suggesting that stats play are part in determining who had the better year, would you concede that the game has changed dramatically in 15 years?

He shared some statistics to shed some light on a comment, which is more than 'Selwood won a Rising Star in his first year (as did Daicos) and played in a flag'.

So what specifically makes Selwood's first year better than Daicos'?

And what specifically makes Sheezel's first year better than Daicos'?

Finally, why are you so fixated on year 1, when I've continually stated this thread was started on the back of Daicos' first TWO years?

 

[Arr0w]

It's interesting that the author wants to continually take everyone back to 2023, rather than discussing how Nicki is travelling in the GOAT status early in 2024

Players before his time have had better first 2 seasons, a player, a year younger, better debut season, and on track to eclipse Nicki's 2nd season

But, I'm sure the debate will continue to rage

 

[Arr0w]

He shared some statistics to shed some light on a comment, which is more than 'Selwood won a Rising Star in his first year (as did Daicos) and played in a flag'.

So what specifically makes Selwood's first year better than Daicos'?

And what specifically makes Sheezel's first year better than Daicos'?

Finally, why are you so fixated on year 1, when I've continually stated this thread was started on the back of Daicos' first TWO years?

I've shared my reasoning as to why both Sheezel and Selwood had better debut seasons

Sheezel, statically better, in most of the metrics

Selwood, similar with far more influence. Let's remember that only 15 players averaged 25+ touches in 2007, whereas 35 players reached that mark in 2022

Finally, it makes no difference when you started this thread, as the OP isn't asking who is the best player over the first 2 years of their career

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Player Statistics Comparison​ Debut yr - 2007------------------------------------------ Debut yr - 2022 Joel Selwood​ Name​ Nick Daicos​ Geelong Cats​ Team​ Collingwood Magpies​ Midfield​ Position​ Defender, Midfield​ 355​ Career Games​ 50​ Bendigo​ Origin​ Oakleigh Chargers​ May 26, 1988​ Date of Birth​ January 3, 2003​ Turned 19 in 2007​ Age​ Turned 19 in 2022​ 183cm​ Height​ 184cm​ 84kg​ Weight​ 79kg​ 2006 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2021 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #7​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Geelong Cats​ Last Drafted By​ Collingwood Magpies​ 2007​ Stats for Season​ 2022​ 21​ Games​ 25​ 10.2​ Kicks​ 14.4​ 9.0​ Handballs​ 11.3​ 19.2​ Disposals​ 25.8​ 5.2​ Marks​ 4.1​ 0.3​ Goals​ 0.3​ 0.4​ Behinds​ 0.3​ 4.5​ Tackles​ 2.2​ 0​ Hitouts​ 0​ 3.95​ Inside 50s​ 2.8​ 1.05​ Goal Assists​ 0.3​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.1​ 0.9​ Frees Against​ 0.7​ 6.9​ Contested Possessions​ 6.4​ 12.67​ Uncontested Possessions​ 17.0​ ​ Effective Disposals​ 19.5​ ​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 75.6%​ 2.62​ Clangers​ 3.5​ ​ Contested Marks​ 0​ ​ Marks Inside 50​ 0.1​ 3.43​ Clearances​ 1.6​ 1.24​ Rebound 50s​ 4.1​ 2.62​ One Percenters​ 0.5​ ​ Bounces​ 0.8​ ​ Time On Ground %​ 82.0​ ​ Centre Clearances​ 0.3​ ​ Stoppage Clearances​ 1.3​ ​ Score Involvements​ 4.5​ ​ Metres Gained​ 406.9​ ​ Turnovers​ 4.2​ ​ Intercepts​ 5.3​ ​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.1​ 83.4​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 87.8​ 77.8​ Supercoach Score​ 90.7​

Have updated with further data. They were completely different players in their first year.

Selwood was a clearance winner, moving forward, Daicos floated behind the ball, and that's without the stats inflation of the last 15 years.

Daicos is awesome, but you can't compare the two in their first year. They were completely different types of players

 

[Fadge]

It's interesting that the author wants to continually take everyone back to 2023, rather than discussing how Nicki is travelling in the GOAT status early in 2024

Players before his time have had better first 2 seasons, a player, a year younger, better debut season, and on track to eclipse Nicki's 2nd season

But, I'm sure the debate will continue to rage

Yep.

Poor start to Daicos' 2024, being his team's best player in only 2 of his 3 games played so far...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yep.

Poor start to Daicos' 2024, being his team's best player in only 2 of his 3 games played so far...

Best amongst a rabble

 

[Arr0w]

Yep.

Poor start to Daicos' 2024, being his team's best player in only 2 of his 3 games played so far...

Again, nothing to do with your own OP, as GOAT status is measured against all players in the competition, not within one club

It's also a rebuttal to your assumption that Nicki would have won multiple awards if he was on the park

 

[Fadge]

Best amongst a rabble

It kind of puts paid to the argument that he can only play well when his side is up and about, doesn't it?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

It's threads like this, and certain posters in it, that make you start to hate a player you actually really love.

Daicos is awesome, but seriously, pump the breaks a little.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It kind of puts paid to the argument that he can only play well when his side is up and about, doesn't it?

Well given last week he had an all time stinker in terms of shirking contests and running scared, I don't think it disproves anything.

His first 2 games his impact per disposal was minimal and in the 3rd game he was a dead set liability for his team defensively.

 

[Sector 7G]

Do the same assessment for Bont.

And we've also covered this ground earlier in this thread.... Daicos' performances against the likes of Adelaide, Bulldogs, Essendon and Geelong were a key reason as to why those teams didn't qualify for finals.

Should he have performed a fraction worse in those games, so as those teams beat us instead of lost to us, so he could have polled more votes against top 8 teams?

Bont had 9 votes against top 8 teams and polled votes in 2 losses.

Only the dogs missed finals by a game so ND performance was not a key reason why Adelaide ,Essendon and Geelong missed finals

 

[_Mike_]

If you are suggesting that stats play are part in determining who had the better year, would you concede that the game has changed dramatically in 15 years?

Not at all, just providing a basis to compare each player's first year stats in response to your question

 

[_Mike_]

Have updated with further data. They were completely different players in their first year.

Selwood was a clearance winner, moving forward, Daicos floated behind the ball, and that's without the stats inflation of the last 15 years.

Daicos is awesome, but you can't compare the two in their first year. They were completely different types of players

See above

 

[Arr0w]

Not at all, just providing a basis to compare each player's first year stats in response to your question

Would have been great if we had contested and other stats for Selwood in 2007

 

[_Mike_]

Would have been great if we had contested and other stats for Selwood in 2007

They're bound to be somewhere - those stats were taken from Footywire which arent always accurate.

 

[Fadge]

Bont had 9 votes against top 8 teams and polled votes in 2 losses.

Only the dogs missed finals by a game so ND performance was not a key reason why Adelaide ,Essendon and Geelong missed finals

Essendon fell away late to miss the finals by 1.5 games, with their percentage also raking a battering late.

ANZAC Day - Collingwood come from 5 goals behind at 3/4 time to win, with Daicos BOG. Can you imagine an alternate universe if Essendon win that game?

Adelaide missed the finals by 1.5 games, with a better percentage than all but 3 teams on the competition.

Round 15 - Collingwood come from two goals down at 3/4 time to win by two points, with Daicos BOG. Can you imagine an alternate universe if Adelaide win that game?

Geelong missed the finals by 2 games, though had a stronger percentage than the 6th, 7th and 8th placed teams. They put the cue in the rack against the Doggies in the last game as they were out of finals contention.

Round 1 - Collingwood come from nearly 3 goals down early in the last quarter to beat Geelong by 4 goals. Daicos second best on ground, behind De Goey.

Momentum is an important element in football. Daicos was a key factor in all 4 teams missing finals.

 

[Arr0w]

They're bound to be somewhere - those stats were taken from Footywire which arent always accurate.

AFL Tables - 2007 Stats - Player Lists

145 CP in 21 games, 6.9 average

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Essendon fell away late to miss the finals by 1.5 games, with their percentage also raking a battering late.

ANZAC Day - Collingwood come from 5 goals behind at 3/4 time to win, with Daicos BOG. Can you imagine an alternate universe if Essendon win that game?

Adelaide missed the finals by 1.5 games, with a better percentage than all but 3 teams on the competition.

Round 15 - Collingwood come from two goals down at 3/4 time to win by two points, with Daicos BOG. Can you imagine an alternate universe if Adelaide win that game?

Geelong missed the finals by 2 games, though had a stronger percentage than the 6th, 7th and 8th placed teams. They put the cue in the rack against the Doggies in the last game as they were out of finals contention.

Round 1 - Collingwood come from nearly 3 goals down early in the last quarter to beat Geelong by 4 goals. Daicos second best on ground, behind De Goey.

Momentum is an important element in football. Daicos was a key factor in all 4 teams missing finals.

So you're really trying to say Daicos is the sole reason 4 teams missed the finals...