Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Fadge]

Your picking and choosing. Daicos doesn't need to be as "aesthetically strong" to have similar or greater impact on football games. Why don't you go watch a deadlifting competition if you want to rank everyone on strength? Nevertheless, Daicos at 21 could still yet fill out physically.

Daicos does things with the football that we have never seen before.

Case in point, changing his mind mid-air from punching the ball forward to collecting it and handballing to De Goey in one action to result in the deciding goal in the 2023 Grand Final.

That's his point of difference.

I also don't think GAJ was the athletic freak at 20 that he was once he started to dominate the competition after 5 years in the system.

 

[Fadge]

Errol is only 6 months older than Daicos, and metrics wise there is not much between them

View attachment 1912336
View attachment 1912337

So Daicos ahead, despite being 6 months younger and a year less in the system?

And Errol is a gun - if not in the top 5 in the comp, could very well be after 2024.

 

[adammania9]

Ah yes the major awards. What better way to adjudicate the goat than desperately appealing to other peoples opinions?

Daicos will never be the goat because he is a seagull. Nothing wrong with that, but there will always be a gap between players like Nick Daicos, and the serious "GOAT" candidates like Ablett, Voss and Martin, who have similar levels of football skill, but are further backed by beast-like power.

But alas, the armchair footywire checker will never be capable of grasping the concept of power.

Nevertheless, whilst it's an interesting topic of discussion, Collingwood supporters don't really care what Bigfooty pessimists think. They'll just continue to watch their superstar romp the league and win individual and team awards.

 

[adammania9]

This is actually wrong
Output on a football field involves many factors, including physical ability.
Sam Mitchell is an example of first rate skill and third rate physical attributes. He was every bit as good as Daicos was in terms of footballing skills, but because he's short, slow and lacking in power, he was never able to single-handedly influence a game to the same degree a player like Judd or Ablett could.

That's nice about Sam Mitchell and all, what does that have to do with Daicos though? 20 years old and 47 games played, he has single-handedly influenced a number of wins already.

 

[Fadge]

Ah yes the major awards. What better way to adjudicate the goat than desperately appealing to other peoples opinions?

How else do we 'adjudicate the GOAT' other than considering 'other people's opinions'?

 

[Fadge]

Another one

English is not my first language, so I say Me first, then Fadge who agreed with me

Who are you?

 

[RUNVS]

So Daicos ahead, despite being 6 months younger and a year less in the system?

And Errol is a gun - if not in the top 5 in the comp, could very well be after 2024.

What makes you think he is ahead based on those stats?

Also Gulden and Daicos are unique in the sense both of them have been in professional programs to fast track their development. Gulden the academy and Daicos because he is a F/S.

Gulden is more of a risk taker when it comes to his kicking, which is why he averages quite a bit more in metres gained, but also has a lower disposal efficiency. Gulden almost always goes for the risky kick that if it pays off really sets the Swans up, but there is more risk to it. Fortunately he is an excellent decision maker and an amazing kick.

 

[Fadge]

That's nice about Sam Mitchell and all, what does that have to do with Daicos though? 20 years old and 47 games played, he has single-handedly influenced a number of wins already.

Safe to say Daicos has single-handedly influenced more wins in his first two seasons than Judd, Mitchell and GAJ did combined in their first two seasons.

 

[RUNVS]

Just following on

Diacos averages 15 metres gained per disposal while Gulden averages a little over 20 metres gained per disposal.

 

[Fadge]

What makes you think he is ahead based on those stats?

Also Gulden and Daicos are unique in the sense both of them have been in professional programs to fast track their development. Gulden the academy and Daicos because he is a F/S.

Gulden is more of a risk taker when it comes to his kicking, which is why he averages quite a bit more in metres gained, but also has a lower disposal efficiency. Gulden almost always goes for the risky kick that if it pays off really sets the Swans up, but there is more risk to it. Fortunately he is an excellent decision maker and an amazing kick.

So how did Daicos finish ahead of Gulden in EVERY individual home and away award, despite playing four fewer games?

There is your answer. Daicos was better, and I suggest also had more work put into him by opposition coaches, despite only his second year in the system compared to Gulden's third.

 

[SC_Power]

Yes, ND can be the king of the GOAT (Greatly Overrated Athlete Threads)

 

[Fadge]

Just following on

Diacos averages 15 metres gained per disposal while Gulden averages a little over 20 metres gained per disposal.

Are you suggesting Daicos is safe and not creative with his disposals?

That is Daicos' point of difference - he makes decisions that many other players wouldn't even be aware existed.

 

[RUNVS]

So how did Daicos finish ahead of Gulden in EVERY individual home and away award, despite playing four fewer games?

There is your answer. Daicos was better, and I suggest also had more work put into him by opposition coaches, despite only his second year in the system compared to Gulden's third.

Please don't go full Richmond.

Awards don't mean much when debating between players, especially since because he plays for Sydney and not Collingwood, and because he doesn't have a famous name it took Gulden a lot longer to be noticed by commentators and umpires alike. Had his last name been Daniher and he played for Essendon I think Gulden would have polled higher in the Brownlow.

 

[Fadge]

The person you agreed with about it being easier for Daicos to receive many hanballs from a player taking a mark across half back because the man on the mark can't move laterally to put on any pressure, making it easier for a little highly skilled player like Daicos to thrive in this era.

What was your user name at the time?

 

[RUNVS]

Are you suggesting Daicos is safe and not creative with his disposals?

That is Daicos' point of difference - he makes decisions that many other players wouldn't even be aware existed.

I am suggesting he plays it safer than Gulden, which is not a criticism, but Gulden's dare and attack is his point of difference. Few players are willing to take the risks Gulden is willing to take.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Who are you?

Think we know who he is!!

Two new accounts in one day, impressive

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RUNVS]

Enter the Meteoric Stats Sheet Analyst with his stats sheet, where Gulden is ahead of Daicos in a handful of statistical measures. Which would be expected, given they play different roles.

I'm actually surprised Daicos kicked ad many goals as Gulden, given Daicos spent more time in the backline.

But I notice you neglected to mention total disposals, disposal efficiency, and the other statistical measures that had Daicos ahead of Gulden.

And again, we're comparing a player in his third year in the system against a player in his second year, with the second year player clearly the better player in 2023 as voted by the coaches, umpires and players, despite playing four fewer home and away games.

But, but, but.... Player Ratings...

Yes Daicos is ahead in disposal efficiency. He does a lot more handballs than Gulden and those are safer than kicks. Also Gulden goes for a lot of risky kicks with big pay offs if they work. If he went with the safe kicks most players go with his disposal efficiency would be a lot higher.

Gulden is the best kick in the Swans team and I will standby that.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Please don't go full Richmond.

Awards don't mean much when debating between players, especially since because he plays for Sydney and not Collingwood, and because he doesn't have a famous name it took Gulden a lot longer to be noticed by commentators and umpires alike. Had his last name been Daniher and he played for Essendon I think Gulden would have polled higher in the Brownlow.

Lol, this is a classic.

RUNBS goes full Swans while accusing someone who is going full Collingwood fantasy of going "full Richmond."

 

[Fadge]

Of course I only mentioned the statistical measures where Gulden was ahead.

Because that is all it took to prove your claim in the post I was responding to wrong. Just in case anyone missed this classic Fadge sequence...

1. Fadge posts this easily disprovable claim:



2. I respond pointing out Gulden is only 5 months older than Afraidcos, and listing some of the many measurable metrics where Gulden was ahead of Fadge's man in 2023. All there in black and white in my post #163 on this thread.

3. Fadge hilariously responds by saying he noticed I neglected to mention all the areas Daicos was ahead. Ah, yes dumbass Fadge, of course I didn't need to list the areas Daicos was ahead to prove how astray your wild claim was, which was the point of my post.

We get it Fadge, this is your strategy. You post utter rubbish that anyone could prove incorrect and when they do, you try to make it look as though the other poster has been somehow deceitful.

Own your errors peanut.

Who would have expected the Meteoric Stats Sheet Analyst to interpret a comment about a player being ahead in 'every measurable metric' to mean 'every single statistical measure recorded'?

Oh my.

I love that we're getting challenged with Gulden, who is an absolute jet, but clearly inferior to Daicos despite having been in the system for a year longer.

 

[RUNVS]

I love that we're getting challenged with Gulden, who is an absolute jet, but clearly inferior to Daicos despite having been in the system for a year longer.

You still have not explained how he is "clearly inferior"?

I am not arguing Gulden will be the greatest of all time. I am just arguing that he is level with Diacos in output.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Who would have expected the Meteoric Stats Sheet Analyst to interpret a comment about a player being ahead in 'every measurable metric' to mean 'every single statistical measure recorded'?

Oh my.

I love that we're getting challenged with Gulden, who is an absolute jet, but clearly inferior to Daicos despite having been in the system for a year longer.

Ok, give us your precise definition of what "every measurable metric" includes and doesn't include then Fadge...

This will be good.

 

[Fadge]

That's all these things are at the end of the day, opinions. You Collingwood supporters believe it's inevitable he will go down as one of the greatest, 99% of non-Collingwood fans would beg to differ.

I don't know why you're so keen to argue about this. You're clearly not going to change anybody's mind, and you don't seem to realize how silly it is to ardently emphasize early-career form so much when it means so little in the context of "goat".

Appealing to the judgement of Gerard Healy isn't going to convince anybody either.

Let's see how it plays out over the next dozen years.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if we stopped the clock at year 2 after the minimum draft age, Daicos has been the best performed player I have seen in over four decades of watching football.

And that's a pretty good start.

 

[Fadge]

I am suggesting he plays it safer than Gulden, which is not a criticism, but Gulden's dare and attack is his point of difference. Few players are willing to take the risks Gulden is willing to take.

Suggest you watch more of Daicos...

 

[RUNVS]

Let's see how it plays out over the next dozen years.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if we stopped the clock at year 2 after the minimum draft age, Daicos has been the best performed player I have seen in over four decades of watching football.

And that's a pretty good start.

Daicos does have an advantage over most players though as I bet he got professional coaching in a way most players don't since he was tied to Collingwood so Collingwood would put resources into him that they wouldn't if it was a normal player in the draft. Gulden had the same advantage too, but it is an advantage that needs to be acknowledged when discussing both.

 

[RUNVS]

Suggest you watch more of Daicos...

I did, but Gulden averaged 25% more metres gained from each disposal than Daicos, which suggests a certain amount of extra dare.