Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[Damp Squarie]

Their president must be burnt at the stake!!! Preferably before 2pm Saturday

Im sure this media whore is itching to hit the airwaves.

 

[Bearded Clam]

What if they had provided the exact same advice to non-indigenous players in the same circumstances? People need to consider the context in terms of how a conversation even begins about a young player's partner with senior coaches. I'd be cooling jets until a proper investigation is conducted.

What if they had provided the exact same advise to non indigenous players?..

What?.. Really?.. are you serious?

If the Hawks told ANY of their players (no matter their skin colour, black, white, yellow, green, purple with pink fxxkn polkerdots) that they need to leave their missus, demand she has an abortion, hand over their phones and start living with a coach so they can be seperated from their family and friends…

Then they would rightfully be dragged through the ringer on that too!.. and should never be employed in the AFL ever again.

This is a National sporting club, league and organisation… not a secretive fxxkn occult!.

But this isnt what has occured here according to all the information provided here so far.. the information provided says this is focused solely on the Indigenous players and their families at Hawthorn…

 

[Scorpus]

In the media. It's reasonable to take the approach of no comment to the media, and hold it for the inquiry.

"No comment" may not help with trial by media, but engaging with it doesn't help either.

But it's also false to say they haven't been given a chance to respond. They have been given a chance, and chose not to.

It's reasonable to request the story from both sides and I understand people wanting that, however if one side had a chance to speak and is deliberately keeping quiet that's very different to not being given the opportunity at all.

 

[1970crow]

They were given a chance to reply, and declined to do so

where did you get that from?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

The footy star who was told to 'sit down!' by McLachlan​

REVEALED: The footy star who was told to 'sit down!' by McLachlan

Gillon McLachlan lost his cool with an Adelaide Crows star as Sunday's booze-fuelled Brownlow Medal crowd became raucous during the dramatic ceremony in Melbourne.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[1970crow]

Really? Fagan has said he’d cooperate with the investigation and Clarkson refuted the claims…

the outrage gang need to outrage, so they make up what is required to continue unabated.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Given this investigation centred around only indigenous players , I don't think it's particularly meaningful that we've not yet found out about similar advice involving non-indigenous players. So no, it's not. Arriving at any conclusion at this point is purely for infants. Yes, it sounds terrible and it's worthy of the initial self stand downs whilst these claims are investigated further. If it turns out these events were effectively as described, out of the blue and unsolicited advice, then we can all go our hardest. But until this becomes the case, common sense requires a questioning mind.

So if it turns out that this advise was given to all the players.. no matter their background..

Is that gonna make it all better for you is it?

It will imstantly become a “move along, nothing to see here moment” for you?..

 

[1970crow]

What if they had provided the exact same advise to non indigenous players?..

What?.. Really?.. are you serious?

If the Hawks told ANY of their players (no matter their skin colour, black, white, yellow, green, purple with pink fxxkn polkerdots) that they need to leave their missus, demand she has an abortion, hand over their phones and start living with a coach so they can be seperated from their family and friends…

Then they would rightfully be dragged through the ringer on that too!.. and should never be employed in the AFL ever again.

This is a National sporting club, league and organisation… not a secretive fxxkn occult!.

But this isnt what has occured here according to all the information provided here so far.. the information provided says this is focused solely on the Indigenous players and their families at Hawthorn…

come on, how could they demand an abortion? You need to pause for a moment and think. And are you suggesting that you wouldn't offer advice about leaving an abusive/toxic partner to a friend or family member? What advice do you reckon Tyson Stengle should have gotten in term of the context around having a successful footy career? What do you think player welfare officers do?

 

[Scorpus]

where did you get that from?

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

"ABC Sport put detailed questions about the allegations in this story to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt but at time of publication none had responded."

 

[pjcrows]

The footy star who was told to 'sit down!' by McLachlan​

REVEALED: The footy star who was told to 'sit down!' by McLachlan

Gillon McLachlan lost his cool with an Adelaide Crows star as Sunday's booze-fuelled Brownlow Medal crowd became raucous during the dramatic ceremony in Melbourne.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Draft sanctions incoming.

 

[1970crow]

But it's also false to say they haven't been given a chance to respond. They have been given a chance, and chose not to.

It's reasonable to request the story from both sides and I understand people wanting that, however if one side had a chance to speak and is deliberately keeping quiet that's very different to not being given the opportunity at all.

You need to consider what their defence would logically be. First it will be around context and then it'll be about why the conversations were happening in the first place which would risk disclosing private information which they wouldn't make public deliberately. We know that one of the indigenous ex-hawk players is estranged from his own family due to their relationship with his missus. I'd imagine uncle Michael's advice to that player mightn't have been too different to what was provided at the footy club. Of course you throw in the word abortion and headline it all with racism and cue the outrage, people lose their ability to think rationally. We've got posters basically saying that they wouldn't encourage a loved one to exit an abusive relationship or pry themselves away from toxic elements in their lives. I suppose you're one of them too.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Will that be their defence?

We told heaps of players to get abortions

Astounding take from a few here isnt it..

Like somehow this will all be “nothing to see” if all the players had been told the same thing!..

Just fxxkin wierd..

Guess if their daughter had been told by their daughters boyfriends footy club that she has to abort her pregnancy.. they’d be fine with that.. as long as its a blanket rule at the club that applies to everyone!..

Are they actually reading what they are writing back to themselves before they post it?..

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

where did you get that from?

 

[1970crow]

What if they had provided the exact same advise to non indigenous players?..

What?.. Really?.. are you serious?

If the Hawks told ANY of their players (no matter their skin colour, black, white, yellow, green, purple with pink fxxkn polkerdots) that they need to leave their missus, demand she has an abortion, hand over their phones and start living with a coach so they can be seperated from their family and friends…

Then they would rightfully be dragged through the ringer on that too!.. and should never be employed in the AFL ever again.

This is a National sporting club, league and organisation… not a secretive fxxkn occult!.

But this isnt what has occured here according to all the information provided here so far.. the information provided says this is focused solely on the Indigenous players and their families at Hawthorn…

But you agree the that the racism component can be removed from the discussion to concentrate on the issue you identified above? I bet you can't, I bet that even if you found out that they've done that to white kids as well, you'll still not be able to let the racism bit go because you need it.

 

[1970crow]

So if it turns out that this advise was given to all the players.. no matter their background..

Is that gonna make it all better for you is it?

It will imstantly become a “move along, nothing to see here moment” for you?..

It means it's not racism. Agreed? Then we can concentrate on the other issues that have been raised. I presume you're another that hasn't ever advised a friend that they shoukd consider exiting an abusive relationship. Good for you, it's actually pretty difficult and not actually enjoyable.

 

[Bearded Clam]

But you agree the that the racism component can be removed from the discussion to concentrate on the issue you identified above? I bet you can't, I bet that even if you found out that they've done that to white kids as well, you'll still not be able to let the racism bit go because you need it.

What?..

I am saying regardless of the race of any of the people involved this would be fxxkn wrong.. white, black, yellow, purple with pink polker dots.. if whats being alledged in this report is true then the people that said these things and made these demands need to go.

I just said that in response to your comments above.

Your the one making it about race.

 

[1970crow]

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

"ABC Sport put detailed questions about the allegations in this story to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt but at time of publication none had responded."

Why should they respond any different to what they have? Is the ABC sone form of arbiter here? It would be entirely inappropriate for them to divulge private conversations with players in a public forum. You want a few screenshots posted where a player is distressed over events with their partner and begging the player welfare officer for help? You want the HR file noting hundreds of events handed to the ABC? Engage your brain son, providing any context or defence exhibits to the ABC would be a massive breach of trust.

 

[Scorpus]

You need to consider what their defence would logically be. First it will be around context and then it'll be about why the conversations were happening in the first place which would risk disclosing private information which they wouldn't make public deliberately. We know that one of the indigenous ex-hawk players is estranged from his own family due to their relationship with his missus. I'd imagine uncle Michael's advice to that player mightn't have been too different to what was provided at the footy club. Of course you throw in the word abortion and headline it all with racism and cue the outrage, people lose their ability to think rationally. We've got posters basically saying that they wouldn't encourage a loved one to exit an abusive relationship or pry themselves away from toxic elements in their lives. I suppose you're one of them too.

So you're saying the people involved either wouldn't defend themselves publicly, or if they did they would provide limited details.

In that case, why the fuss around "the other side of the story" and "not being given a chance to respond"?

Are we supposed to wait an indefinite amount of time to hear details that will never be revealed before forming an opinion?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Remember Clarkson's rules around the four Ps?

Punt
Piss
Pills
Pussy

 

[Scorpus]

Why should they respond any different to what they have? Is the ABC sone form of arbiter here? It would be entirely inappropriate for them to divulge private conversations with players in a public forum. You want a few screenshots posted where a player is distressed over events with their partner and begging the player welfare officer for help? You want the HR file noting hundreds of events handed to the ABC? Engage your brain son, providing any context or defence exhibits to the ABC would be a massive breach of trust.

You can't on one hand say I need to hear the other side of the story while simultaneously admitting that side won't be told or detailed to the public

 

[Mego Red]

Even here on BF we were all getting stuck into Jenkins for being a trouble maker and going to the media.

Eventually our club cut him out. And I don't think he has much good to say about our club.

In reality he was being a whistle blower.



Eddie is still a respected member of our club, a club he still loves.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sure - though I'm not sure what your point is?

Personally I think "whistle blower" is a very generous description of what Jenkins did, which was leak to the media about an incident that upset him. But I'm not going to argue with you over it - I guess that's his right if he feels he can't reach satisfaction by speaking to his employer directly.

 

[Mego Red]

I think they're all related, which is my point. I think "ranking" them is weird. But that's just my view.

The media has been comparing the incidents, which is the only reasons they're being mentioned together here. I don't believe they're comparable.

 

[Jars458]

It means it's not racism. Agreed? Then we can concentrate on the other issues that have been raised. I presume you're another that hasn't ever advised a friend that they shoukd consider exiting an abusive relationship. Good for you, it's actually pretty difficult and not actually enjoyable.

How can you remove the racism component it’s in bedded intergenerational racism that existed in this country for as long as white people have been here. This is just another heinous example.
A proper investigation needs to happen but who would trust the AFL to do that properly.

 

[cleanhands]

Remember Clarkson's rules around the four Ps?

Punt
Piss
Pills
Pussy

 

[1970crow]

Will that be their defence?

We told heaps of players to get abortions

Players and even ordinary humans like us that are having ongoing partner problems would routinely be advised to consider an abortion as one of the 2 options if they were seeking counsel. So we can make it legal and support people's individual right to make that decision but we can't ever discuss it as an option? What kind of privileged existence are you all living. Can't advise to separate from toxic life elements either apparently. It's kind of the opposite to what we are told these days. Sure he/she is mentally and physically abusive, but I reckon you should just grin and bear it. I'm definitely not advising you to consider leaving that person.