List Mgmt. Official 2016 trade period discussion

[Biggy_Boy]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You still think Geelong aren't soft at the trade table, then? Or are you still in the covering your ears and screaming "lalaala can't hear you" camp?

 

[MacStradbroke]

The most surprising element for me in this particular trade period is the surprise that many supposedly feel at the way the Cats have conducted themselves.

Cannot think of a single trade period in recent times where we have played hardball and forced our players into corners to compel them to meet the club's agenda.

For me, it's a key reason why players like Lids and Tuohy this time around both asked to make their way down to the Cattery. We are definitely seen as a club that treats its players with respect around trade time and not simply as commodities to be brokered.

I can understand that quite a number here don't like that this is the case. But surely we've all been following our trade dealings for long enough to know that's how we roll at this time of year.

Seems like the whole trade period went pear-shaped for us when interest in Mots went nowhere. He was seemingly the only collateral that we were prepared to release that could have unlocked a deal for Deledio with the Tigers. Once it was clear that he wasn't going to garner much interest from them (or anyone else, for that matter), we had nothing meaningful left to take to the table with any other clubs. And our subsequent planning for meaningful deals just fell apart.

Caddy clearly had his head turned by a lucrative offer from the Tigers (four year deal for him now, I believe) and Geelong was simply not prepared to live with having a disgruntled player on the list who was frustrated by the lack of support from the club to help him pick up the long-term deal he was looking for.

Again, you don't have to like it but that's how we clearly work at moments like these. The deals for Kersten and Vardy are more of the same, to a lesser degree. Rather than insisting that the player be treated like a chattel, we work with other clubs to see our (past) players benefit. Which means that we 'lose' every single one of these deals, when taken at face value. Whilst retaining a reputation as a club where players know they will not be simply coerced into unsatisfactory arrangements for them in order to advance the club's cause.

I do find it ironic that posters here like to wax on about the need for the club to treat our veteran players with respect while also seemingly being quite happy to trample on the future AFL dreams of younger and lesser quality players in the mighty name of the GFC. I think the club shows integrity most of the time in treating all our players with some dignity and respect while also seeking to further the cause of the GFC at the same time. With competing agendas like those, it's no surprise that the club loses out sometimes in seeking to do the right thing by its players.

And if the alternative is to end up with the debacle that is now the Brycelet's future with the Tankers, I would prefer the current approach of the GFC every time.

In summary, our trade period has clearly been nothing like the outstanding success of last year. However, I think there's still some cause for optimism with how it's worked out.

Tuohy will be a clear win for us, I believe, as he prospectively goes a long way to dealing with a glaring issue in our back half for quite a few seasons to come.

I'm on the record as never being sure whether Billie was going to amount to much at all for us, so I can live with his departure and the (hopefully) minimal pick downgrade that ensues.

Black is neither here nor there for me, as I think he's long odds to make a big difference for us. Have to deal with his salary for next year. I know, but after that he should be on relatively limited coin. Does provide at least one other option for us up forward to ease the torrent of pressure on Toma.

Kersto out is not my preference but clearly he's not rated that highly by decision-makers at the club. Not being picked for that prelim was damning (considering how the cupboard was pretty much bare for that game) so I'm not at all surprised that a decent offer of money and gametime at Freo (as well as the 'go home' factor) has seen him out the door. Given that, club was always going to facilitate a deal and Shane and the Shockers both knew it.

Vardy, on recent exposed 'form' and injury history, cannot be considered a significant loss at all. Any late pick was going to be enough for us to pull the trigger and send him where he wanted to go.

Cadds is the one that really hurts for mine. Although I think we do seriously overrate our players sometimes, and have to acknowledge that his mixed form over the journey does probably put him in the late first-early second window as a draft pick. Which is pretty much where we ended up with him. Get the impression the option of going to Punt Road appealed more and more to him as the days went by, and we therefore decided not to stand in his way.

While they're different players to a degree, I think full pre-seasons into Mena and Scoot (and the potential rise of Nakia and Lang) might have us not missing 'the Bull' quite as much as some might think. In fact, I'm dreading his absence as a forward option more than anything. Hopefully the younger players available for those positions can step up and make a place down there their own.

In the end, you clearly can't call our 2016 trade period a massive win. However, I'm not sure it will end up as disastrously for us as some now think.

And some further Wells wisdom applied to our second and early third-round picks in 2016 might just leave us a little better placed than we all think right now.

In any case, while our approach to this specific trade period might have many scratching their heads, I don't think anyone can suggest that it doesn't fit with our overarching trade philosophy of recent times.

More than any other club in the comp, we seek to treat our players with dignity and further their prospects for continued AFL footy, wherever that might be.

Many will suggest that they don't like that appoach at all. And that's all fine. But I think you do have to acknowledge and respect it.

While I generally don't like this year's trade outcomes for us either, I'm pleased that the club can stay classy in the midst of some pretty ordinary behaviour by clubs as they back players into very awkward positions to suit their own ends.

Anyway, grateful it's over for another 12 months so that posters can go the club over a whole host of other matters for a while.

fantastic post! Good to see a positive outlook, agree with everything.

 

[Tristan34]

As some guy said on Winners and Losers-'Geelong, battered and bloody, but ok.'
That's about how I feel too.
Forward unto the breach. Go Cats. Bring on 2017-can't wait.

I think we will be OK for next year as well, but we probably had the worst draft of all the teams except GWS and they don't need talent...

 

[year of the cat]

Just looked at the drafting numbers last 10 years. Disgraceful, haven't developed an A grader since Selwood. Time for a change. Anyone who thinks we are near a flag is kidding themselves. Danger and Selwood put on brilliant years. Hawkins delivered, Enright was AA. The rest give me a spell. We've achieved nothing last 5 years yet carry on as if we are winning flags

Sent from my SM-A300Y using Tapatalk

Exactly. Wells has lived largely off two draft in '99 and '01 that he nailed. You have to give him kudos for them. He was though gifted Hawkins, Scarlett and G.Ablett which did contribute a bit to our premiership success. But the drafts prior and since have been largely mediocre.

 

[catswhiskers]

Really liked your thinking. Its great to read a level headed response ( rather than a knee jerk). Not that I agree with all. Most.

* Losing Josh Caddy for #24 (and upgrading *Richmond's* late-draft pick!) is ponderous and seemingly self-defeating.
Caddy didn't set the world on fire during his time at Geelong, but he is 24, has played 95 games and if he is ever going to step things up, the next 2-3 year period will be his most productive. For a team who loaded up on 26 year olds with 100+ games last year, it makes little sense to have traded a best 22 player for a draft selection in 2016.

All I can read into that trade is they felt Caddy had little left to offer us. Maybe they thought Danger and Menegola had made him less useful. Maybe
he was on too much money for the role they saw him playing. How things go at the tiges will be interesting. He could be just what they need.

* Lastly, the Deledio fiasco was poorly handled, the club should have known we didn't have the currency to trade him in ahead of time, but instead allowed itself to be flattered by it's new-found status as a so-called 'destination club' and in doing so precipitated the Caddy trade.

Didn't GFC signal to Lids that this would be hard to do because of cap requirements? Early on ? Motlop not moving / attracting interest definitely impacted this one. We can't complain about kids not getting games now.

In summary, we traded away blokes like Caddy, Kersten and Smedts for Tuohy, who is a good player, and Black, who will be lucky to play much football with us. And parted with another first round draft selection.

The loss of the first round pick is a worry but if (just repeat - IF ) things go well its an OK trade BUT how we get back into the trade game is beyond me. AFL rules are so rubbery.

I am one of the few who thought Black was worth picking up. I just liked what I saw a couple of times a couple of years ago. Something has happened since - hope we can iron things out.

I still love footy even tho this has been a tough couple of weeks!!

 

[calder_daddy]

I didn't want to get rid of Caddy but what has worried me more than anything is what if Hawkins go's down.
I really hope we can get one of the 2 mentioned KPF at pick 24
One was Kerr and forget the other ones name, if we get a forward for our future I'll be ok.
If we don't, well I'll still back the club in but will be more worried.

 

[Mr Meow]

Sure. And they both might make it. My point is neither are there yet, and we can't just assume they will.

I don't assume too much with the GFC, ruins the fun. Now I know we didn't get these boys as fresh faced 18 year olds, but I'm still excited to see them progress and thought they showed some good signs. They added a bit of intent and grunt which we'd been lacking. Sadly, along with the rest of the team, that disappeared in parts of September for both of them. Maybe not a lack of intent, but deer in the headlight lack of composure. However I'd be marking guys who failed their fifth audition harder than those who stumbled during their first.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Well, it's been a hilariously embarrassing trade period where the Cats have again been bent over and violated dry.

Can't say I'm all that surprised, however.

How do you see it, Doctor Gero?

Not a great trade period. No need to melt though.
So good day.

 

[CharacterFirst]

You are clearly one of the best going around these parts, Parts.

But the fact you don't respect the club for taking an attitude that puts the lives and livelihoods of its players into the mix when considering its decisions on list management doesn't worry (or surprise) me in the slightest.

It's also clear that you don't respect my viewpoint on these matters either. And that's all good too.

In the end, I don't just follow the club to see us win flags. As beautiful as that experience has turned out to be. I'm also proud to support a footy club that seeks to combine a desire to 'play the game as it should be played' with an ethos that we 'treat people as they should be treated'. Rather than treating them as pawns in a mercenary quest for fleeting glory.

And while this is all no doubt both anathema and 'blue sky and rainbows' to you, it is definitely part of the attraction of the GFC for me.

Each to their own, of course.

Because I do respect your opinion that my viewpoint on this subject is entirely unworthy of respect.

Me too.

 

[The rabbi]

Doctor Gero , I was right after all.
My failing memory served me well.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Not a great trade period. No need to melt though.
So good day.

If you had any sense of the kinds of traders Geelong are (i.e. soft), you'd know this strategy of an increased presence at the trade table wasn't going to work out. I told you it wouldn't, and you didn't want to hear it.

Maybe quell the unbridled optimism and try looking at things critically once in a while. Better yet, why don't you just try to apply the same standards you use to judge Hawthorn to Geelong for a minute.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

You are clearly one of the best going around these parts, Parts.

But the fact you don't respect the club for taking an attitude that puts the lives and livelihoods of its players into the mix when considering its decisions on list management doesn't worry (or surprise) me in the slightest.

From what I understand, Caddy didn't come to the club at the beginning of the trade period, emotionally distraught, and request a trade to Richmond. Geelong got tangled up in the Deledio talks, Richmond looked into Caddy and Caddy decided he was open to the move. Geelong then went about shipping him off for well unders because they were so inept at managing their cap space.

And it's a competition. You get nowhere playing the nice guy. If Caddy was seriously disgruntled, to such an extent that his performance at Geelong and that of his teammates might be affected, then I could understand it, but that was clearly not the case here.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

If you had any sense of the kinds of traders Geelong are (i.e. soft), you'd know this strategy of an increased presence at the trade table wasn't going to work out. I told you it wouldn't, and you didn't want to hear it.

Maybe quell the unbridled optimism and try looking at things critically once in a while. Better yet, why don't you just try to apply the same standards you use to judge Hawthorn to Geelong for a minute.

Ok. Nice chat.

 

[MaybeItsGreg]

So Deledio has taken a pay cut to join GWS. This makes our inability to work out a deal for him even more perplexing. There is definitely something fishy going on.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Ok. Nice chat.

But surely the only reason we got just 21 for Christensen was because he was uncontracted, not because of Geelong being poor negotiators.

But wait a minute, Caddy was contracted...

 

[Art Vandelay_]

But surely the only reason we got just 21 for Christensen was because he was uncontracted, not because of Geelong being poor negotiators.

But wait a minute, Caddy was contracted...

Ok. Nice chat.

 

[Boxhead_31]

So there are a lot of complaints about Caddy being pick 7 a few years ago, and us getting only pick 24 for him now after developing him for a few years.

Maybe those people should have a look at what GWS traded late today ...

IN: Picks 45, 58, 135, 2017 1st rounder
OUT: Marchbank (pick 6, 2014), Pickett (pick 4, 2014), Palmer (pick 7, 2007 & Rising Star Winner 2008), 2017 2nd rounder

That's three players who were all top 10 picks and have plenty of football left, for a couple of late picks and an upgrade of a 2017 pick.

Seriously, if our Caddy trade was bad, what do you make of that??

GWS are in a forced trade position as they are currently roughly $600k over the cap due to COLA end being brought forward

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

If you had any sense of the kinds of traders Geelong are (i.e. soft), you'd know this strategy of an increased presence at the trade table wasn't going to work out. I told you it wouldn't, and you didn't want to hear it.

Maybe quell the unbridled optimism and try looking at things critically once in a while. Better yet, why don't you just try to apply the same standards you use to judge Hawthorn to Geelong for a minute.

Seriously mate , why would anyone heed your advice when all you do is peddle unbridled pessimism.
We haven't had the best trade period in 2016 but it's not as if the sky is falling in.
Look at the massive gamble the Hawks have taken and the picks they don't have over the next two years - that's desperation and we aren't anywhere near that.

 

[Boxhead_31]

So Deledio has taken a pay cut to join GWS. This makes our inability to work out a deal for him even more perplexing. There is definitely something fishy going on.

Saw Tuohy as the priority perhaps?

 

[goyoucatters]

From what I understand, Caddy didn't come to the club at the beginning of the trade period, emotionally distraught, and request a trade to Richmond. Geelong got tangled up in the Deledio talks, Richmond looked into Caddy and Caddy decided he was open to the move. Geelong then went about shipping him off for well unders because they were so inept at managing their cap space.

And it's a competition. You get nowhere playing the nice guy. If Caddy was seriously disgruntled, to such an extent that his performance at Geelong and that of his teammates might be affected, then I could understand it, but that was clearly not the case here.

From the tenor of my post, clearly I don't agree with this assertion. I believe the Cats primarily moved him because he had been beguiled by the offer of money and extended tenure at Richmond, and they sensed he would struggle to buy in at the GFC for the seasons ahead as a result.

As for it being a competition, that's undoubtedly true. And the Cats walk a very delicate line in seeking to include the interests of the club and their players in all their deliberations.

As I said earlier, you don't have to like it. You don't even have to respect it. I know plenty around here that don't.

But we'd all be better off if people started acknowledging that's how things are at the Cattery right now and stopped with the outrage every trade period when we demonstrably factor in the interests of our players when dealing at the trade table.

Because surely nobody can suggest any longer that they're utterly shocked to see things play out this way time after time.

 

[Desslok]

It looks like we sunk all our planning into how much we can get for Steve Motlop.. Once we came to the realization that noone wanted him we struggled to find direction and were left floundering for relevance.

Not disappointed to see Caddy go but he defiantly went for unders to Richmond.

3/10 for us this trade period.

 

[Boxhead_31]

GEELONG

Who Left: Shane Kersten (Fremantle), Billie Smedts (Carlton), Nathan Vardy (West Coast), Josh Caddy (Richmond)

Who Arrived: Zach Tuohy (Carlton), Aaron Black (North Melbourne)

Draft Picks: 24, 38, 42, 64, 72, 74, 91

Champion Data says: “They shouldn’t have lost Caddy, he was elite for his position. He averages 1.2 goals and he can go into the midfield. It’s a very rare player that can do that. It feels like they got a little bit worse this off-season.”

Chris Pelchen says: “It’s not quite the headlines of last year. They’ve lost a little bit. Tuohy will be important for them with Corey Enright going out. I think they’ll be around the mark. I think they’ll be in the top four of five clubs competing for a premiership next year.”

Grade: 6.5/10
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...d/news-story/e2f5153498350c7b15dce95b94da22b3

 

[Boxhead_31]

 

[Jemaine]

So there are a lot of complaints about Caddy being pick 7 a few years ago, and us getting only pick 24 for him now after developing him for a few years.

Maybe those people should have a look at what GWS traded late today ...

IN: Picks 45, 58, 135, 2017 1st rounder
OUT: Marchbank (pick 6, 2014), Pickett (pick 4, 2014), Palmer (pick 7, 2007 & Rising Star Winner 2008), 2017 2nd rounder

That's three players who were all top 10 picks and have plenty of football left, for a couple of late picks and an upgrade of a 2017 pick.

Seriously, if our Caddy trade was bad, what do you make of that??

They have a STACK more cap space to free up than we do over the next 12-24 months. Was always going to happen to them given the concessions they have been handed. To compare situations is nonsensical.

 

[Jemaine]

Maybe he was on too much money for the role they saw him playing.

This has to be the only reasonable answer here. Otherwise we've simply shit the bed.