List Mgmt. Operation - Get Dyson Sharp 2025.

[Crow till I die]

It kinda is

My read on it was Port were every keen to get a pick in this years draft and wanted to shop a player who had value to get that pick (or 2). Where they misread things was they saw Houston as that guy and with his links to Victoria thought they could cash in. Houston, still under contract was ok to look at his options - this is where the problems happened. Port would have loved to send him to North and postured that way by saying they would only shop him for the right deal. Houston decided he would rather go to club not rebuilding and with a higher profile (Carlton & Collingwood). Problems for Port as Carlton said no to parting with their pick 11 and when Collingwood's interest came and Houston decided it was there, they had nothing of real value to give and it ended up in a multiclub deal and they got pick 16 on draft night and a couple of fringe players.

Once Houston was allowed to look around, that was it, he wan't coming back regardless show much port postured about holding him to contract - they made a big error as where they are, Houston > Berry, Atkins and Richards...oh well...lol

 

[119others]

Well.... thats not quite right.

I actually think it ended up both

Houston was contracted at way unders from all accounts (assume 650k / year) and unhappy with this at Power, where an acquiring team no doubt is paying at LEAST 850-900k

Power ultimately also wanted him gone for 2024 draft picks but only assuming they got Cumming or Perryman to replace him. They gave permission for him to speak to other clubs and by then the horse had bolted

In the end it’s universally accepted Power got way unders and seriously ****** this whole thing up

 

[119others]

My read on it was Port were every keen to get a pick in this years draft and wanted to shop a player who had value to get that pick (or 2). Where they misread things was they saw Houston as that guy and with his links to Victoria thought they could cash in. Houston, still under contract was ok to look at his options - this is where the problems happened. Port would have loved to send him to North and postured that way by saying they would only shop him for the right deal. Houston decided he would rather go to club not rebuilding and with a higher profile (Carlton & Collingwood). Problems for Port as Carlton said no to parting with their pick 11 and when Collingwood's interest came and Houston decided it was there, they had nothing of real value to give and it ended up in a multiclub deal and they got pick 16 on draft night and a couple of fringe players.

Once Houston was allowed to look around, that was it, he wan't coming back regardless show much port postured about holding him to contract - they made a big error as where they are, Houston > Berry, Atkins and Richards...oh well...lol

Similar read to me. Plus Houston was contracted on way unders at Power

 

[119others]

It was outdated when rendell was saying it but he still said those things the point was we have a long history of being very poor at player attraction and retention so it's not beyond the realm of possibilities

well thankfully things have changed and that 'little club from the suburbs' (Port Power) is now losing A grade talent whilst our high end draft picks cant wait to extend - FOR YEARS

You must be loving this change in dynamic seeing us (ie Crows) improve whilst they (ie Port Power) go backwards with player retention. Pretty good stuff hey things finally reverting to the norm where the impoverished club starts shrinking again

And when it comes to player attraction we have smashed them over the last handful of years. JHF the only exception whilst we have brought in multiple elites

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

well thankfully things have changed and that 'little club from the suburbs' (Port Power) is now losing A grade talent whilst our high end draft picks cant wait to extend - FOR YEARS

You must be loving this change in dynamic seeing us (ie Crows) improve whilst they (ie Port Power) go backwards with player retention. Pretty good stuff hey things finally reverting to the norm where the impoverished club starts shrinking again

And when it comes to player attraction we have smashed them over the last handful of years. JHF the only exception whilst we have brought in multiple elites

Still going with the port thing I see and no if the crows were properly run they should have the pick of the talent eg jhf, Lukosius and Port would have the scraps, that's how it used to be

 

[FR0GGY]

So if you were a VIC club would you prefer A or B?

A - trade for Butters end of 2025, minimum 2 first rounders required including a top 7-10 pick. 1.25m / year contract

B - get Butters as a RFA. 1.4m / year contract. No trade collateral needed


I know which I would prefer as a VIC club and it ain’t A

Or B might be miss out on him entirely because you waited and someone else grabbed him?

 

[Mutineer]

Still going with the port thing I see and no if the crows were properly run they should have the pick of the talent eg jhf, Lukosius and Port would have the scraps, that's how it used to be

So apart from Scott Lycett, Jordan Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Brad Ebert and Ryan Burton etc have they "brought" home in recent times, JHF I'll give you is a top end talent, Scott Lycett a very competitive ruck but Lukosius has a way to go to be considered a top end talent.

Compare that with Jordan Dawson, Izak Rankine, Mitch Hinge, ANB this year, previously Sam Jacobs who I think has Lycett covered?

JHF and Ebert were only ever going to Powa.

 

[119others]

Still going with the port thing I see and no if the crows were properly run they should have the pick of the talent eg jhf, Lukosius and Port would have the scraps, that's how it used to be

I am just asking you to celebrate the little poor club from Alberton off season. That’s reasonable isn’t it? Not asking you to pay out on the supporters or anything like the Herald Sun did that time publishing stats showing Power had (1) fans that had the least teeth, (2) highest % earning less than 10k/year and (3) highest propensity to smoke. We don’t need to go there.

Off-season

• Hinkley contractually gets to go again after scraping into a prelim after the most humiliating home finals performance of all time (now we know the most embarrassing finals performance of all time also don’t we now )
• Completely bugger up Houston trade. Gets unders for him after he demanded out when you thought you’d get Perryman or Cumming to replace. Both FA’s rejected Port Power. Houston only wanted to go to Pies and they offered way UNDERs in the deal. Even you should acknowledge this? So just lost third best player for way unders.
• Got 3 BIG GUNS IN. Rory The Rat Atkins. Seriously, just lol. Some Pies small who is somewhere between second and third rate. Luko “the missing piece”. The only thing missing will be 900k from your salary cap for the next 6/7 years for another player similar to the exisiting Power forwards. They needed a TT. They got another soft, pretty player.
• one of the. Bigger sponsors facing financial viability issues according to Port forum posters I have read.
• pressure on Rozee to perform in a HARD manner on field when he is soft and pretty. He isn’t up to it. He ain’t a Port Adelaide captain and I have seen their many fine leaders for decades - Ebert, Bucky Cunningham, Phillips, Russell Johnson. Without a shadow of doubt, Rozee is the worst (inc Cassisi who at least would put his body over the ball and take a hard hit)
• with a difficult fixture for a change next year, Power miss the 8 and won’t finish above our crows for the next half a decade. Lock it in

Aren’t you HAPPY with all of this like many crows fans?

 

[119others]

Or B might be miss out on him entirely because you waited and someone else grabbed him?

Perhaps but as I asked Cromulant can you provide me any major Pre Agent deals from the last few years? Like top 10-20 players in the league which Butters certainly is (top 10).

I can’t recall teams paying up massively one year from a player becoming a FA but happy to be reminded of the examples

Edit - sorry I think you are actually agreeing with me on second reading?? I am seemingly a little confused haha re what you are actually saying. Teams can clearly miss out on a player under both A and B

 

[FR0GGY]

Perhaps but as I asked Cromulant can you provide me any major Pre Agent deals from the last few years? Like top 10-20 players in the league which Butters certainly is (top 10).

I can’t recall teams paying up massively one year from a player becoming a FA but happy to be reminded of the examples

Edit - sorry I think you are actually agreeing with me on second reading?? I am seemingly a little confused haha re what you are actually saying. Teams can clearly miss out on a player under both A and B

Can’t think of any at the moment but it’s no different to a player being traded under contract.
JHF went home early
Houston went early.
Teams don’t necessarily need to pay up either because if port wait for FA the best they’ll get is a pick after their first pick say around 10, they’ll get more trading him a year early.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

They didn't force out Houston. Houston wanted to go.

They offered him a proposal and he took it

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So apart from Scott Lycett, Jordan Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Brad Ebert and Ryan Burton etc have they "brought" home in recent times, JHF I'll give you is a top end talent, Scott Lycett a very competitive ruck but Lukosius has a way to go to be considered a top end talent.

Compare that with Jordan Dawson, Izak Rankine, Mitch Hinge, ANB this year, previously Sam Jacobs who I think has Lycett covered?

JHF and Ebert were only ever going to Powa.

Definitely think that crows supporters underestimate the trade and FA deals in last 3-4 years and delisted free agent signing keays

Dawson Rankine Cumming Peatling ANB Hinge Keays

If the drafting 2016-2019 wasn’t such a miss we’d have a premiership contending List right now

 

[Mutineer]

Definitely think that crows supporters underestimate the trade and FA deals in last 3-4 years and delisted free agent signing keays

Dawson Rankine Cumming Peatling ANB Hinge Keays

If the drafting 2016-2019 wasn’t such a miss we’d have a premiership contending List right now

Ben Keays a massive get both on and off field.

 

[119others]

Can’t think of any at the moment but it’s no different to a player being traded under contract.
JHF went home early
Houston went early.
Teams don’t necessarily need to pay up either because if port wait for FA the best they’ll get is a pick after their first pick say around 10, they’ll get more trading him a year early.

Yep agree IF Butters is leaving over the next 2 years:

• from Powers perspective it’s definitely best to trade end of 2025 as they will get more than one first rounder which is all they are entitled to under FA compensation
• from Butters perspective I feel it’s best to wait until end of 2026, as clubs PAY MORE when you are a FA as no trading collateral involved and you receive a premium in salary to compensate (Cummings 800k per year….)

Ultimately different incentives for each party and all I was trying to say is that trading premium (top 20 players in the league) pre-FA’s isn’t a very common thing. Why? Because it’s not in the FA’s best interests.

“Show me the incentive and I will show you the behaviour”

 

[119others]

Definitely think that crows supporters underestimate the trade and FA deals in last 3-4 years and delisted free agent signing keays

Dawson Rankine Cumming Peatling ANB Hinge Keays

If the drafting 2016-2019 wasn’t such a miss we’d have a premiership contending List right now

Yep Hinge, Keays, Murray and Keane

Surely our inbound trades over 4 years are at, or near to, leagues best?

Add the Hinges, Keanes, Murray’s and not sure anyone has done better.

Can almost guarantee NOBODY is now wanting to sack Reidy or Hamish after the last 4-5 years. Possibly best in the league (after a poor half decade before that) or as a minimum top quartile

 

[WeeBlake]

Yep Hinge, Keays, Murray and Keane

Surely our inbound trades over 4 years are at, or near to, leagues best?

Add the Hinges, Keanes, Murray’s and not sure anyone has done better.

Can almost guarantee NOBODY is now wanting to sack Reidy or Hamish after the last 4-5 years. Possibly best in the league (after a poor half decade before that) or as a minimum top quartile

I’m not sold on Hamish

 

[119others]

I’m not sold on Hamish

2020 TT, Cook, Pedlar (potential..)
2021 Rachele, Soligo, Taylor, Nank, Dawson (trade)
2022 Rankine (trade), Dowling. Edit- Max!
2023 Curtin, Edwards, Ryan
2024 Draper, Welsh - 3 x trades

Add no cost Hinge, Keays, Keane, Murray x 2

All of this in the last 5 years - how can we not be happy? It’s the vast majority of our team and multiple elite players (proven or probable)

The 5 years before this though were crap and he needed to get drastically better - and he has

 

[George Kramer]

2020 TT, Cook, Pedlar (potential..)
2021 Rachele, Soligo, Taylor, Nank, Dawson (trade)
2022 Rankine (trade), Dowling. Edit- Max!
2023 Curtin, Edwards, Ryan
2024 Draper, Welsh - 3 x trades

Add no cost Hinge, Keays, Keane, Murray x 2

All of this in the last 5 years - how can we not be happy? It’s the vast majority of our team and multiple elite players (proven or probable)

The 5 years before this though were crap and he needed to get drastically better - and he has

You are including a lot of players who despite being in the system for a few years haven’t made it yet and some recent draftees which is too soon to say. Plus some were trades, not drafted.

To claim best in the business is one case of premature Hamishadulation.

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

So apart from Scott Lycett, Jordan Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Brad Ebert and Ryan Burton etc have they "brought" home in recent times, JHF I'll give you is a top end talent, Scott Lycett a very competitive ruck but Lukosius has a way to go to be considered a top end talent.

Compare that with Jordan Dawson, Izak Rankine, Mitch Hinge, ANB this year, previously Sam Jacobs who I think has Lycett covered?

JHF and Ebert were only ever going to Powa.

I wasn't comparing port and the crows that was 119others continuing with his creepy attempt to label crows supporters as port supporters...

I only said that we've been poor traditionally at it, so maybe cleric's story had some merit, even this year we missed the best talent we wanted, but at least we had a plan B

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yep Hinge, Keays, Murray and Keane

Surely our inbound trades over 4 years are at, or near to, leagues best?

Add the Hinges, Keanes, Murray’s and not sure anyone has done better.

Can almost guarantee NOBODY is now wanting to sack Reidy or Hamish after the last 4-5 years. Possibly best in the league (after a poor half decade before that) or as a minimum top quartile

Bit OTT re Hamo

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I actually think it ended up both

Houston was contracted at way unders from all accounts (assume 650k / year) and unhappy with this at Power, where an acquiring team no doubt is paying at LEAST 850-900k

Power ultimately also wanted him gone for 2024 draft picks but only assuming they got Cumming or Perryman to replace him. They gave permission for him to speak to other clubs and by then the horse had bolted

In the end it’s universally accepted Power got way unders and seriously ****** this whole thing up

Not sure they’re that unhappy about turning Houston into Berry and J Whitlock

Think they did what they wanted to do in the end

 

[119others]

Not sure they’re that unhappy about turning Houston into Berry and J Whitlock

Think they did what they wanted to do in the end

Whitlock definitely dropped from 'phantoms'. Often there is ultimately a reason players drop but only time will tell

Unders on Houston. Paid over for Luko. They are the knowns. Good luck to them for the newbie prospects that slipped which are the unknowns

 

[Danger in Texas]

Not sure they’re that unhappy about turning Houston into Berry and J Whitlock

Think they did what they wanted to do in the end

Definitely got good value out of their picks, but it'll still hurt their chances of contending next year (and before Butters potentially looks at moving to Vic)

 

[Crow till I die]

Definitely got good value out of their picks, but it'll still hurt their chances of contending next year (and before Butters potentially looks at moving to Vic)

As long as they don't end up luring Phillipou back in the years to come and miss Sharpe - then getting that top end replacement mid becomes much harder for them

 

[Danger in Texas]

As long as they don't end up luring Phillipou back in the years to come and miss Sharpe - then getting that top end replacement mid becomes much harder for them

Definitely think Phillipou is the one we have competition from Port for (if he looks to move) - not so much NWM, given Port don't have their own 2025 1st now