Autopsy Practice Match, 2022: Carlton v St.Kilda

[Mowman]

Probably a target while we had Richo at the helm but didn't suit the game plan Ratts was trying to implement. Once you've committed a long way out it's hard to pull the pin. If you had your time again he wouldn't be a Saint but he's much better than he was.

It was Ratts that wanted Hill and pushed hard for him
Had a connection from Hawks day

 

[Joffaboy]

It was Ratts that wanted Hill and pushed hard for him
Had a connection from Hawks day

Problem is that the 2019/2020 Saints team is not the 2013/15 Hawks team. Hill was also five years older.

Look I am being Harry hindsight because, as I said, I was pretty excited we were getting Hill (and the others) during trade period.

Not disappointed with Hill, but certainly not over the moon. Hopefully we improve as a team enough for the likes of Hill and Billings to be that cream that a good team needs.

 

[gringo2011]

Well seeing the NWM footage, that is exactly what I think I expected from Hill. A couple of things, AFL pressure is much different to VFL pressure. Hill cops blocks and shepards etc that you don't get as much in VFL. Hill also runs both ways all day and doesn't stop. The footage was a 20 second grab of NWM and his tank is nothing like Hill's.

I agree his move to HB has made him a better contributor and I suppose if glass is half full with Hill and NWM in the team we will have some pace and hopefully once NWM has a tank two running machines.


We were in talk with Hill early on. Basically had committed to him in June of 2019 (so I read here so maybe, maybe not) so yeah probably committed to him.
Regardless a player we spent so much on and has such a reputation should fit into any game plan, and Ratts has been known for a run and shoot type style as a coach so should have fit in.

I am not devastated we have Hill, but never really saw the attraction. Was awesome in the Hawthorn 3 peat but was always cream to their plans, we weren't in that position so he would struggle like he did in a middling team like he seemed to at Freo.

I naively put my faith in the recruiters. On the whole they have exceeded expectations, with Hill, not so much.

I had a feeling his soft outside game would make him an unpopular player with the fans. Old timers hate the guys who seagull off the back of others hard work and Hill's best was very much as a hard running but soft in the contest type. He made Fiora look like he liked the brutal side of footy.

 

[gringo2011]

Problem is that the 2019/2020 Saints team is not the 2013/15 Hawks team. Hill was also five years older.

Look I am being Harry hindsight because, as I said, I was pretty excited we were getting Hill (and the others) during trade period.

Not disappointed with Hill, but certainly not over the moon. Hopefully we improve as a team enough for the likes of Hill and Billings to be that cream that a good team needs.

Cherry not the cake.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Didn’t see the game, but reading through this thread, the equivalent Carlton thread and the media write-ups, it seems pretty clear that they were taking it a lot more seriously than we were, at least in the first quarter (“clearly playing at a higher intensity than St Kilda early on, with a clear intent to tackle and play at game speed”, according to Fox Sports), which reminded me of our game against them there a few preseasons ago, when they burst out of the blocks like it was a game for 4 points, and their crowd was going nuts like it was a final, while we were just blowing off the cobwebs and wondering what all the fuss was about. It seems like yesterday was pretty much identical.

No surprise really, with it being on their home dung patch, and it being their first opportunity to impress Voss. They also had more guys who aren’t guaranteed a spot in the 22 playing than we did, and you know they aren’t going to be holding back, as they try to push their case for a spot.

From reading the Carlton thread (and to a lesser extent that Fox quote), they were applying a ton of pressure from the jump, so it is understandable that our skills were sloppy in that first quarter in particular, as that’s what generally happens when you put a team under serious heat, they feel a lot more rushed, and skill errors tend to be the result.

We wouldn’t have faced pressure like that for 6 months, so the likelihood of our skills holding up under it was pretty much zero.

Was good that we got back into the game after that though and that Battle did a good job on Curnow and that Campbell looks like being an upgrade on Phunter.

Aside from no injuries, they’re definitely two of the two things we would have been looking for most out of the game, as CHB and backup ruck were arguably our two biggest structural weaknesses last year.

We’ll be a lot better off if we have two solid options for those two roles.

We’ll know a lot more about where we’re at next week.

Ultimately all that really matters is how we go from R1 onwards though.

 

[BrutThough]

“On Marcus Windhager:​

He finished out the game strongly. He played high-forward, but mainly inside the midfield. It's really important for us to really focus in on his forward craft and his ability to get up the ground.

He can run all day so we’ve got to utilise that strength of his. When we can get him to pinch in the midfield, it’ll round him out. His work-rate, understanding of where and when he needs to run and his contest work was definitely a highlight.”

Seems they really hope to make Windy that inside mid who can kick goals

Sounds like they have Windy playing a role that could see him in the seniors early on.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sounds like they have Windy playing a role that could see him in the seniors early on.

How good is it to see them say that he can “run all day” already and that he knows “where and when to run” and to give him a wrap for his contest work as well.

For a guy with a powerful build and explosive speed like he has to have serious endurance and good skills and an inside game to with it is bloody exciting.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Problem is that the 2019/2020 Saints team is not the 2013/15 Hawks team. Hill was also five years older.

Look I am being Harry hindsight because, as I said, I was pretty excited we were getting Hill (and the others) during trade period.

Not disappointed with Hill, but certainly not over the moon. Hopefully we improve as a team enough for the likes of Hill and Billings to be that cream that a good team needs.

That about sums it up

 

[gringo2011]

Didn’t see the game, but reading through this thread, the equivalent Carlton thread and the media write-ups, it seems pretty clear that they were taking it a lot more seriously than we were, at least in the first quarter (“clearly playing at a higher intensity than St Kilda early on, with a clear intent to tackle and play at game speed”, according to Fox Sports), which reminded me of our game against them there a few preseasons ago, when they burst out of the blocks like it was a game for 4 points, and their crowd was going nuts like it was a final, while we were just blowing off the cobwebs and wondering what all the fuss was about. It seems like yesterday was pretty much identical.

No surprise really, with it being on their home dung patch, and it being their first opportunity to impress Voss. They also had more guys who aren’t guaranteed a spot in the 22 playing than we did, and you know they aren’t going to be holding back, as they try to push their case for a spot.

From reading the Carlton thread (and to a lesser extent that Fox quote), they were applying a ton of pressure from the jump, so it is understandable that our skills were sloppy in that first quarter in particular, as that’s what generally happens when you put a team under serious heat, they feel a lot more rushed, and skill errors tend to be the result.

We wouldn’t have faced pressure like that for 6 months, so the likelihood of our skills holding up under it was pretty much zero.

Was good that we got back into the game after that though and that Battle did a good job on Curnow and that Campbell looks like being an upgrade on Phunter.

Aside from no injuries, they’re definitely two of the two things we would have been looking for most out of the game, as CHB and backup ruck were arguably our two biggest structural weaknesses last year.

We’ll be a lot better off if we have two solid options for those two roles.

We’ll know a lot more about where we’re at next week.

Ultimately all that really matters is how we go from R1 onwards though.

Mick McGuane did a good summary on SEN this morning, he watched the match and was not too fussed either way. He praised Carlton's improvement from a structural point of view but he was fairly confident that we had some good passages of play that should translate as well. I thought they showed more improvement than us but with a new coach you probably expect more changes.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Mick McGuane did a good summary on SEN this morning, he watched the match and was not too fussed either way. He praised Carlton's improvement from a structural point of view but he was fairly confident that we had some good passages of play that should translate as well. I thought they showed more improvement than us but with a new coach you probably expect more changes.

If we play anywhere near like that again we will hammered by the Bombers

 

[aussierulesrules]

View attachment 1333826

This makes for very interesting reading. You’d love to know their TOG numbers though, because the stats (including CBA’s) would suggest that a number of our “prime movers” may have spent significant chunks of the game on the bench (eg. Gresh (10 touches, 2 CBA’s), Jones (17 and 11) Crouch (19 & 10), Billings (15), D-Mac (10), Webster (11), whereas all their “prime mids” got 27/28 touches (Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt, Kennedy), with O’Brien also getting 27 and Fisher 25, which suggests they most likely played more minutes as a collective.

So their midfield numbers are much much closer to what you would expect to see in a game for 4 points, while our numbers across the board for most of our best players are what you would only see in basically our worst game for the year. (Steele 22, Gresh 10, Jones 17, Sincs 17, Crouch 19, Hill 19, JB 15, D-Mac 10- how often are we going to see numbers like that? Plus only two goals between King, Membrey, Sharman, Gresham and Billings!)

Yet we only lost by a goal. To a team that many are tipping to play finals this year, who seemed to be taking it more seriously. On their home training ground.

 

[sammm]

Batch's Review: VFL Practice Match against Carlton

St Kilda Development Coach and Sandringham Senior Coach Jake Batchelor goes through the key discussion points following yesterday’s VFL practice match win.

www.saints.com.au

 

[XhazzafootyX]

get windhager in the firsts

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Cherry not the cake.

Where we want to be.....
( delicately place cherry on top of one of the spires ).

Reality.

 

[luca77]

get windhager in the firsts

Byrnes, Bytel, Connelly, Windy, Hayes, Highmore, Sharman.
Maybe a few more. While we're in the running, there are probably only so many we can put in the team who are a fair way off hitting the peak of their powers. Can only have so many guys picking up 10-15 touches each, not getting to the right spots and making rookie blues. Would be nice to play them all, but if we're doing that it probably means we got off to a start like last year.
Bytel's the one I'd stick in anyway. Does that mean Byrnes misses? And we have to find a spot for Sharman - I guess that means Wood and Hayes miss? Highmore not getting picked despite Coff not being there was interesting.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Byrnes, Bytel, Connelly, Windy, Hayes, Highmore, Sharman.
Maybe a few more. While we're in the running, there are probably only so many we can put in the team who are a fair way off hitting the peak of their powers. Can only have so many guys picking up 10-15 touches each, not getting to the right spots and making rookie blues. Would be nice to play them all, but if we're doing that it probably means we got off to a start like last year.
Bytel's the one I'd stick in anyway. Does that mean Byrnes misses? And we have to find a spot for Sharman - I guess that means Wood and Hayes miss? Highmore not getting picked despite Coff not being there was interesting.

I'm really not concerned at all about the performance of the regulars.
I guess i'd have liked to see some of the younger players, Byrnes, Bytel, even Clark as a mid, the ones who have something to achieve , really stamp their mark on that game.
Instead they were ok.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Disappointing to see that Byrnes didn’t attend a single centre bounce, and Clark only 6, despite Gresh, Jones and Crouch only seeing 23 between them.

Also intriguing that Byrnes played a big chunk of the VFL game afterwards, despite playing enough of the AFL game to notch 18 touches.

Seb being in there for the 2nd-most centre bounces is also interesting.

Maybe they figure he played by far the best footy of his career while playing almost exclusively in there, and as such they’re going to see if he can recapture that form.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Disappointing to see that Byrnes didn’t attend a single centre bounce, and Clark only 6, despite Gresh, Jones and Crouch only seeing 23 between them.

Seb being in there for the 2nd-most is also interesting.

Maybe they figure he played by far the best footy of his career while playing almost exclusively in there, and as such they’re going to see if he can recapture that form.

Agreed Seb is a shocking clearance player for a mid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Something we haven't discussed is training loads.
Its always a matter of timing.
Most teams back off a bit before round 1 so the squad isn't too heavy footed, but they probably don't back off for a practice game.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Agreed Seb is a shocking clearance player for a mid.

He's a good clearance player.










In 2018.

 

[aussierulesrules]

 

[D2D3]

Disappointing to see that Byrnes didn’t attend a single centre bounce, and Clark only 6, despite Gresh, Jones and Crouch only seeing 23 between them.

Also intriguing that Byrnes played a big chunk of the VFL game afterwards, despite playing enough of the AFL game to notch 18 touches.

Seb being in there for the 2nd-most centre bounces is also interesting.

Maybe they figure he played by far the best footy of his career while playing almost exclusively in there, and as such they’re going to see if he can recapture that form.

The thing that raised my eyebrows about Seb attending so many centre bounces is the fact that it is in a practice game. Would have thought it would be a good opportunity to give Byrnes or Clark a more significant run in there to see how they go. Nope back to the known quantity.

Looks like out main set up will be Steele, Seb, Crouch and Jones with Clark, Higgo and Gresh occasionally running through. Which isn't a bad thing and is pretty much what you'd expect but it would have been nice to see something new.

 

[gringo2011]

This makes for very interesting reading. You’d love to know their TOG numbers though, because the stats (including CBA’s) would suggest that a number of our “prime movers” may have spent significant chunks of the game on the bench (eg. Gresh (10 touches, 2 CBA’s), Jones (17 and 11) Crouch (19 & 10), Billings (15), D-Mac (10), Webster (11), whereas all their “prime mids” got 27/28 touches (Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt, Kennedy), with O’Brien also getting 27 and Fisher 25, which suggests they most likely played more minutes as a collective.

So their midfield numbers are much much closer to what you would expect to see in a game for 4 points, while our numbers across the board for most of our best players are what you would only see in basically our worst game for the year. (Steele 22, Gresh 10, Jones 17, Sincs 17, Crouch 19, Hill 19, JB 15, D-Mac 10- how often are we going to see numbers like that?)

Yet we only lost by a goal. To a team that many are tipping to play finals this year, who seemed to be taking it more seriously. On their home training ground.

They seemed to play most of the game, just not with much intensity. I commented that we were in it despite playing badly. We looked like we were playing without much system or energy. Steele looked like he was cruising rather than going flat out. Cerra and Cripps looked fantastic together, they look like a real synergy set up. I think adding Walsh to that trio Carlton might finally have made a big step up in the mids. Cripps was back to his old self and Cerra read him like a book.

 

[PlayerNumber9]

Didn’t see the game, but reading through this thread, the equivalent Carlton thread and the media write-ups, it seems pretty clear that they were taking it a lot more seriously than we were, at least in the first quarter (“clearly playing at a higher intensity than St Kilda early on, with a clear intent to tackle and play at game speed”, according to Fox Sports), which reminded me of our game against them there a few preseasons ago, when they burst out of the blocks like it was a game for 4 points, and their crowd was going nuts like it was a final, while we were just blowing off the cobwebs and wondering what all the fuss was about. It seems like yesterday was pretty much identical.

No surprise really, with it being on their home dung patch, and it being their first opportunity to impress Voss. They also had more guys who aren’t guaranteed a spot in the 22 playing than we did, and you know they aren’t going to be holding back, as they try to push their case for a spot.

From reading the Carlton thread (and to a lesser extent that Fox quote), they were applying a ton of pressure from the jump, so it is understandable that our skills were sloppy in that first quarter in particular, as that’s what generally happens when you put a team under serious heat, they feel a lot more rushed, and skill errors tend to be the result.

We wouldn’t have faced pressure like that for 6 months, so the likelihood of our skills holding up under it was pretty much zero.

Was good that we got back into the game after that though and that Battle did a good job on Curnow and that Campbell looks like being an upgrade on Phunter.

Aside from no injuries, they’re definitely two of the two things we would have been looking for most out of the game, as CHB and backup ruck were arguably our two biggest structural weaknesses last year.

We’ll be a lot better off if we have two solid options for those two roles.

We’ll know a lot more about where we’re at next week.

Ultimately all that really matters is how we go from R1 onwards though.

Absolutely they were taking it more seriously than us. The clearest indicator of this was the difference between Steele and Cripps, where Cripps was committed while Steele was going through the motions. With our effort not really there, they were able to break through us with ease and thus score freely.

Now the fact that our effort wasn’t there does set the alarm bells ringing after last year.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Byrnes, Bytel, Connelly, Windy, Hayes, Highmore, Sharman.
Maybe a few more. While we're in the running, there are probably only so many we can put in the team who are a fair way off hitting the peak of their powers. Can only have so many guys picking up 10-15 touches each, not getting to the right spots and making rookie blues. Would be nice to play them all, but if we're doing that it probably means we got off to a start like last year.
Bytel's the one I'd stick in anyway. Does that mean Byrnes misses? And we have to find a spot for Sharman - I guess that means Wood and Hayes miss? Highmore not getting picked despite Coff not being there was interesting.

Byrnes numbers looked pretty solid and so far he's been given a more consistent run. I'd think that puts him in front.