Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
You tell meTell me, did the remnants of any trades of their priority picks play in their premierships?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
LIVE: Sydney v Port Adelaide - 7:40 / 7:10 Fri
Squiggle tips Swans at 57% chance -- What's your tip? -- Teams on Thurs »
LIVE: Geelong v Brisbane Lions - 7:30PM Sat
Squiggle tips Cats at 54% chance -- What's your tip? -- Teams on Thurs »
Weekly Prize - Join Any Time - Tip Prelim Finals
The Golden Ticket - MCG and Marvel Medallion Club tickets and Corporate Box tickets at the Gabba, MCG and Marvel.
AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
You tell meTell me, did the remnants of any trades of their priority picks play in their premierships?
A couple of additional top end 18 year olds literally turned the GC culture around.
As a club that hasn't pillaged the system like Melbourne, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond and the GC in recent years. It's a rich argument to say we can't get the same concessions that propelled 2 of those 5 into major success.
You tell me
An additional top end 18 year old is not going to turn around a team in North’s position to be more competitive in the short term.
I think the ability to recruit a couple of out of contract players as if they are free agents even if they aren’t qualified as free agents, with free agent compensation to the losing club, makes far more sense to me.
Similar to some of the Gold Coast and GWS startup concessions.
If North could add a couple of seasoned AFL players at the end of this year AND not give up their natural draft picks doing so - so they could choose to trade those picks for additional seasoned players or invest the picks into top end youth - that’s far more likely to get them competitive.
Melbourne getting Tyson (yes, he was damn good for a couple of years there!), Vince, Melksham, Garlett and Hibberd in through trades did far more for immediate competitiveness and morale than the multiple top end 18 year olds, including priority picks, ever did.
You stated Hawthorn and Richmond’s major success, not West Coast and the Bulldogs, I’m responding to you.Yes they did, given you asked.
Tom Boyd (Ryan Griffen) - 2016
Noah Balta (Brett Deledio) - 2020
Josh Kennedy (Chris Judd) - 2018
Chris Masten (Chris Judd) - 2018
You also missed Dale Thomas, who played in the 2010 Collingwood Premiership, Xavier Ellis who played in Hawthorn's 2008 Premiership and Chris Judd who played in West Coasts 2006 Premiership. All priority picks.
Richmond won without Noah Balta in 2017 and 19, hardly the reason behind Richmonds major success as you put it.As a club that hasn't pillaged the system like Melbourne, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond and the GC in recent years. It's a rich argument to say we can't get the same concessions that propelled 2 of those 5 into major success.
Yes they did, given you asked.
Tom Boyd (Ryan Griffen) - 2016
Noah Balta (Brett Deledio) - 2020
Josh Kennedy (Chris Judd) - 2018
Chris Masten (Chris Judd) - 2018
You also missed Dale Thomas, who played in the 2010 Collingwood Premiership, Xavier Ellis who played in Hawthorn's 2008 Premiership and Chris Judd who played in West Coasts 2006 Premiership. All priority picks. this is ontop of Jarryd Roughead.
In terms of PP's that continued to live on:
Collingwood turned Dale Thomas into another top 6 pick in Matthew Scharenberg.
Melbourne turned Colin Sylvia into another top 25 pick and in term took Bernie Vince.
Melbourne turned Tom Scully into Jesse Hogan and Chris Dawes, they then turned Jesse Hogan into Steven May and Kade Kolo (This PP is still live)
Richmond turned Brett Deledio into Noah Balta and Coleman-Jones (this PP is still live)
West Coast turned Chris Judd into Chris Masten, Josh Kennedy and Tony Notte (this PP is still live)
Marc Murphy is still playing (this PP is still live)
So sorry, PP's can have lasting residual affects on clubs for over a decade if utlised right.
You’re not thinking about priority picks correctly.
To illustrate, Deledio, Roughead and Griffen were technically priority picks, but in reality it was Tambling, Franklin and Tom Williams who were the additional players drafted. These were the actual benefit players even though technically they were the “natural” picks.
If you rerun your analysis on the effective player gained, not the technical priority pick, you will find a much less rosy picture. And even your current analysis shows in many cases all that happened was an asset was used and recycled and didn’t provide direct or immediate competitiveness or success. Colin Sylvia turned into Bernie Vince, and Melbourne won how many finals with Colin and Bernie?
Being allowed to sign OOC players with no trade even if those players aren’t free agency qualified would have the same effect of creating an asset for the struggling club, and will create more immediate competitiveness.
I understand your point, but they were still the priority picks.
You seem to be glossing over the fact, it's as much an asset to help clubs build into the future as it is the players impact.
who's to say North wouldn't trade their second pick in the event they received a PP?
Gold Coast traded some of their PP's.
I agree there is some value that can be extracted from additional draft selections, but it’s such a small part of what increases competitiveness unless the value is extracted in very specific ways (e.g. traded for a ready to go player).
The AFL is all about a quality product to be able to get better broadcast and media deals, and keep their betting sponsors happy. So they will assist in ways that create competitiveness ASAP.
Having North or Adelaide based on last year add an additional 18 year old doesn’t meet that brief.
The AFL has changed their thinking so significantly than from the times your are quoting and they won’t go back.
Even their more sophisticated mechanisms like tradable only 17 yo mini draft picks, and mature age preselections engineered to bring more immediate competitiveness have been manipulated by the clubs receiving them and not used for their intended purpose.
Ok, so whats your solution?
Have your medicine and stay sh*t?
I’ve already provided it. Grant North the ability to sign a couple of OOC players without the need for a trade - minimum age of those players being 20 or maybe 22. I’d also give them a couple of mature age pre-draft selections that they cannot trade.
That should assist them to bring in four AFL ready bodies to increase competitiveness and stops them from trying load up on 18 year olds.
Obviously they should still get their natural draft picks which they can either trade or invest into 18 yo talent.
Brisbane went 10, 7, 4, 3 wins from 2013-2016 and got an end of first round priority pick (19).
Carlton went 4, 7, 6, 2 wins from 2015-2018 and got the rights to Shane McAdam.
GC went 6, 6, 4, 3 from 2016-2019 and got a mature age selection + four first round picks and an extended rookie list.
There is no special formula. Is it in the AFL’s best interest for North to be playing finals and winning flags in a few years time? I’m not sure they really care, and I’m not convinced priority picks work anyway.
Players have to agree to go to the wooden spooner though.
Effectively paying through the nose for journeyman types?
Where has this worked, ever?
How are Clark, Vince, Lumumba, Dawes, Frost and Pederson going?
It's the likes of Gawn, Oliver and Petracca that turned you around. Good drafting.
If you had of drafted better, earlier, with the mountain of picks you had, it would have turned around quicker. The problem wasn't the system, it was Melbourne at the time.
I think Melbourne’s early picks through the mid to late 2000s were fine. They were consensus picks. It was the lack of leadership, on field and off field, plus lack of development, some injuries, and an attitude of “If we get enough talent in, and give them games, success will come” which was the problem.
GWS’ first couple of seasons is proof of volume of young talent alone isn’t the answer.
Most of those experienced players you quoted played significant roles by giving consistency and structure as Melbourne went from horrific, to boring but competitive, and eventually into the finals in 2018.
I would argue that stability and on field support was part of what allowed Melbourne’s draft picks since the mid 2010s to develop better.
Clark was the one where overs were paid to lure someone who really didn’t want to be there, and despite being an immense talent he was a bad egg.
Not a huge amount was paid for the others, maybe Dawes a bit too much but he also provided lots of leadership that outstripped his on-field capabilities.
It took GWS five seasons, and their first couple of seasons were putrid.
Five seasons is not quick.
They also didn’t have one additional top talent like a priority pick per year, they had many, many top picks gifted to them at the same time to start up.
Round 13 last season and Adelaide looked like some sort of a candidate with how poorly they were running, and then the AFL double downed on not helping them out with Brad Crouch not netting a first round compo (bet you if they finished, say, 8th, and compo pick was pick 11, it would have triggered it, anyway i digress)
12 months later and they've turned it around rather quickly
PP shouldn't exist
yes you’ve nailed it. the problem was Melbourne, no extra draft picks was going to change that.How are Clark, Vince, Lumumba, Dawes, Frost and Pederson going?
It's the likes of Gawn, Oliver and Petracca that turned you around. Good drafting.
If you had of drafted better, earlier, with the mountain of picks you had, it would have turned around quicker. The problem wasn't the system, it was Melbourne at the time.
Wow, I had no idea. So if I have this right, Richmond did this:Richmond turned Brett Deledio into Noah Balta and Coleman-Jones (this PP is still live)
Wow, I had no idea. So if I have this right, Richmond did this:
Pretty good work!
- 2004: Draft Deledio at #1 with priority pick
- 2016: Trade Deledio for 2017 1st rounder (Geelong) and 2017 3rd rounder (GWS)
- 2017: Swap the above two picks with Brisbane for picks 20 & 25
- 2017: Draft CCJ at 20 and Balta at 25