Preview R1: Changes for 2025

[Big Dub]

Don't think Sholl's a lock, if we're playing deep into finals, doubt he's in the team. If you were the opposition coach, would you rather to face Curtin, Nankervis, Milera...or Sholl? Even Dowling will get Sholl's possessions but also be a factor physically. He's a wingman who averages less than 2 inside 50s a game. Uncompetitive in the air (1 contested mark for the entire season) and uncompetitive at stoppage. He just runs all day. But that's pretty much it.

We haven't had any stand out wings for a while, but Sholl was the best we had last year.

While Cumming might take one wing, or push Hinge from half back to wing, who's going to take Sholl's wing?

He's not physical, but he gets the ball. He also got 5 marks a game, nearly 5 score involvements and 368m gained. It's very outside (nearly 75% of his disposals are uncontested), but that's the winger's role.

It would be great if someone took his spot by being more impactful, but I don't see who.

 

[Captain Furious]

We haven't had any stand out wings for a while, but Sholl was the best we had last year.

While Cumming might take one wing, or push Hinge from half back to wing, who's going to take Sholl's wing?

He's not physical, but he gets the ball. He also got 5 marks a game, nearly 5 score involvements and 368m gained. It's very outside (nearly 75% of his disposals are uncontested), but that's the winger's role.

It would be great if someone took his spot by being more impactful, but I don't see who.

His 4.7 score involvements isn't terrible but also not great per league average. ROB has higher for example. Take a look at his goal assists - 3. For the entire season. Ranks 453 in the AFL. There's players ahead of him I've never heard of. For a wingman, that is appalling.

Would love to see Curtin on the wing. Hinge and Cumming for sure, Nank, Milera when fit - wing and half back are pretty similar positions in the modern game. Max if we're trying to get him up the ground. Soligo and Peatling can run through there when midfield rotations require, as can Dawson, who made his name at the Swans as a wing. Dowling's played there before if he's in the side, ditto Cook; if he can find the footy, he's a beautiful kick and has good evasion. We have plenty of options.

 

[AFC979810]

Don't think Sholl's a lock, if we're playing deep into finals, doubt he's in the team. If you were the opposition coach, would you rather to face Curtin, Nankervis, Milera...or Sholl?

Round 1 he is a lock. He quietly put together a very good season in 2024.

And round 1 as an opposition coach I would be more concerned with Sholl in the team than Curtin/Nank/Milera.

Even Dowling will get Sholl's possessions but also be a factor physically. He's a wingman who averages less than 2 inside 50s a game. Uncompetitive in the air (1 contested mark for the entire season) and uncompetitive at stoppage. He just runs all day. But that's pretty much it.

I do not understand the boards obsession with Sholl to become more physically imposing. Its simply not his game. Play him to his strengths.

We don't need or want him to be in contested situations. We have Crouch, Soligo and Laird that we can use as the grunts.

 

[Dangarman]

Well, let's compare our Round 1 lineups for 2023 and 2024:-

2023
View attachment 2164647

2024
View attachment 2164648

I see a total of 8 changes:

Out: Brown, Doedee, Murray, Walker, Sloane, McAdam, Schoenberg, Himmelberg

In: Worrell, Borlase, Scholl, Jones, Burgess, Gollant, Crouch, Murphy

I wonder if there will be another 8 changes when we compare Round 1 lineups from 2024 to 2025? 35% of the lineup seems like a lot of change... but 3 of the 8 outs were due to injury.

cheers

Are Edwards, Toby Murray or Oscar Ryan smokies for R1 with a big pre-season?

I think the only two players I'd rule out for R1 at this stage would be Strachan (unless ROB goes down in pre-season) and Welsh.

 

[Golumless]

Don't think Sholl's a lock, if we're playing deep into finals, doubt he's in the team. If you were the opposition coach, would you rather to face Curtin, Nankervis, Milera...or Sholl? Even Dowling will get Sholl's possessions but also be a factor physically. He's a wingman who averages less than 2 inside 50s a game. Uncompetitive in the air (1 contested mark for the entire season) and uncompetitive at stoppage. He just runs all day. But that's pretty much it.

Arguably, that's the main job of a wingman in this era. To keep wide, keep things ticking over at a nice click and run all day.

I doubt an opposition coach would care at all about any of the options you've listed.

 

[Big Dub]

His 4.7 score involvements isn't terrible but also not great per league average. ROB has higher for example. Take a look at his goal assists - 3. For the entire season. Ranks 453 in the AFL. There's players ahead of him I've never heard of. For a wingman, that is appalling.

Would love to see Curtin on the wing. Hinge and Cumming for sure, Nank, Milera when fit - wing and half back are pretty similar positions in the modern game. Max if we're trying to get him up the ground. Soligo and Peatling can run through there when midfield rotations require, as can Dawson, who made his name at the Swans as a wing. Dowling's played there before if he's in the side, ditto Cook; if he can find the footy, he's a beautiful kick and has good evasion. We have plenty of options.

I'd hate to see Curtin on the wing.

His strengths are his poise and cleanliness inside of contests. He's not an accumulator on the outside, particularly this early in his career. To my knowledge, wing is one of the few positions (plus ruck) that he hasn't played. He won't have the craft.

I think it would destroy his confidence to play him there.

I'd play him half back and half forward, where he can hunt the ball in contests and use his weapons.

 

[Captain Furious]

I'd hate to see Curtin on the wing.

His strengths are his poise and cleanliness inside of contests. He's not an accumulator on the outside, particularly this early in his career. To my knowledge, wing is one of the few positions (plus ruck) that he hasn't played. He won't have the craft.

I think it would destroy his confidence to play him there.

I'd play him half back and half forward, where he can hunt the ball in contests and use his weapons.

I'm not sure he's ever played half forward. That is a challenging role in the modern game and you'd think ANB and Keays have that locked up. We have more half backs than other other position. If he's competing for an inside mid role, he may be spending more time in the SANFL than any of us want. If he can play half back, he can play wing. Probably requires less craft than any other position and still allows him to be present at contests if that is his strength.

Even if it's not Curtin, there's 10 other players I'd have there ahead of Sholl.

 

[Golumless]

His 4.7 score involvements isn't terrible but also not great per league average. ROB has higher for example. Take a look at his goal assists - 3. For the entire season. Ranks 453 in the AFL. There's players ahead of him I've never heard of. For a wingman, that is appalling.

Would love to see Curtin on the wing. Hinge and Cumming for sure, Nank, Milera when fit - wing and half back are pretty similar positions in the modern game. Max if we're trying to get him up the ground. Soligo and Peatling can run through there when midfield rotations require, as can Dawson, who made his name at the Swans as a wing. Dowling's played there before if he's in the side, ditto Cook; if he can find the footy, he's a beautiful kick and has good evasion. We have plenty of options.

Be very wary about "league average" for wings. The midfield tag is a curse there as it means even the standout wings get lost - unless they're getting a lot of inside minutes like Gulden. After all, they're sharing it with the guys on the inside and championship data has yet to introduce a sorting algorithm to filter for inside minutes and even the medicore inside player is going to outperform the best winger offensively.

I would argue Josh Daicos is a prime example of a benchmarkable winger (wouldn't say he's in the top 2 or so, but an every day player who gets in and around the AA conversations) in this era, and he's been batting at ~0.5 goals, 0.3 goal assists, 5 score involvements and 1.3 score launches for the last three years. Sholl is pretty much hovering around those offensive production levels in 2024.

 

[Captain Furious]

Be very wary about "league average" for wings. The midfield tag is a curse there as it means even the standout wings get lost - unless they're getting a lot of inside minutes like Gulden. After all, they're sharing it with the guys on the inside and championship data has yet to introduce a sorting algorithm to filter for inside minutes.

I would argue Josh Daicos is a prime example of a benchmarkable winger (wouldn't say he's in the top 2 or so, but an every day player who gets in and around the AA conversations) in this era, and he's been batting at ~0.5 goals, 0.3 goal assists, 5 score involvements and 1.3 score launches for the last three years. Sholl is pretty much hovering around those offensive production levels in 2024.

You highlighted 2 sentences that were completely separate thoughts.

His score involvements are fine but also, who cares. They can be involvements leading to a rushed behind. It's his goal involvements that's appalling and that matter. 3 in an entire season, 20 games, 2000 minutes of football. We scored 279 goals, he was involved in 3 of them. As a wingman, that is wildly terrible. Ranked in the bottom rung AFL wide, including defenders.

He does no damage, if we want to be better, players like him can't be in the side.

 

[WeeBlake]

You highlighted 2 sentences that were completely separate thoughts.

His score involvements are fine but also, who cares. They can be involvements leading to a rushed behind. It's his goal involvements that's appalling and that matter. 3 in an entire season, 20 games, 2000 minutes of football. We scored 279 goals, he was involved in 3 of them. As a wingman, that is wildly terrible. Ranked in the bottom rung AFL wide, including defenders.

He does no damage, if we want to be better, players like him can't be in the side.

Goal assists are not just score involvements where the score is a goal. It’s a much stricter definition, like last effective possession before a goal is scored. You don’t get a goal assist for a touch in a scoring chain.

Also, Daicos got only 0.4 of them per game. That’s nine across 24 games, as you say, over 2000 minutes of football.

 

[Cromulant]

Round 1 he is a lock. He quietly put together a very good season in 2024.

And round 1 as an opposition coach I would be more concerned with Sholl in the team than Curtin/Nank/Milera.



I do not understand the boards obsession with Sholl to become more physically imposing. Its simply not his game. Play him to his strengths.

We don't need or want him to be in contested situations. We have Crouch, Soligo and Laird that we can use as the grunts.

People are comparing the Sholl of 2022, not the one of last season.

He had a pretty solid year.

 

[Captain Furious]

Goal assists are not just score involvements where the score is a goal. It’s a much stricter definition, like last effective possession before a goal is scored. You don’t get a goal assist for a touch in a scoring chain.

Also, Daicos got only 0.4 of them per game. That’s nine across 24 games, as you say, over 2000 minutes of football.

I love how you keep comparing him to one player, who in a self admitted down year, still got 3 times as many. What about the 450 players that have higher averages than Sholl? Stars like Andy Moniz-Wakefield, Blake Drury, Joseph Fonti, Tom Emmet and Kaleb Smith. There's almost a hundred defenders that have a higher goal assist average last year than our champion wingman.

 

[Cromulant]

Ahh the Sholl bashers are out in force, cant see past the nose on their face... but they still go for it.

 

[Captain Furious]

Ahh the Sholl bashers are out in force, cant see past the nose on their face... but they still go for it.

You're right. While your comment makes literally no sense at all, I shouldn't be so disparaging toward a small child. He deserves a participation award.

 

[Cromulant]

You're right. While your comment makes literally no sense at all, I shouldn't be so disparaging toward a small child. He deserves a participation award.

Thats a poor retort, even for you

 

[Captain Furious]

Thats a poor retort, even for you

Again, you're absolutely correct. I should've gone with 'can't see past the nose on their face' as a quality piece of football analysis. In fact, I should get all my retorts from 1920's vernacular.

 

[Cromulant]

Again, you're absolutely correct. I should've gone with 'can't see past the nose on their face' as a quality piece of football analysis. In fact, I should get all my retorts from 1920's vernacular.

Given quality football analysis doesn't seem to be your thing, I wouldnt bother.

 

[Captain Furious]

Given quality football analysis doesn't seem to be your thing, I wouldnt bother.

Horsefeathers! Get your bohunkus outta here.

 

[Big Dub]

I'm not sure he's ever played half forward. That is a challenging role in the modern game and you'd think ANB and Keays have that locked up. We have more half backs than other other position. If he's competing for an inside mid role, he may be spending more time in the SANFL than any of us want. If he can play half back, he can play wing. Probably requires less craft than any other position and still allows him to be present at contests if that is his strength.

Even if it's not Curtin, there's 10 other players I'd have there ahead of Sholl.

I believe that he did play forward in juniors but not in last year or so, but don't quote me on that. Either way, looks like he could be a handful there. I also think there is a spot there, moreover than maybe half back initially. But think Curtin will own the back half eventually.

There are a heap of players who could play wing and who are objectively better players than Sholl, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should play those players on a wing. Hinge is better at half back, Soligo in the centre.

If we get to the point that we are choosing between dropping Sholl and a player that can play wing better than Sholl, then we can drop Sholl.

We didn't get to that point last year. Maybe we do this year.

 

[AFC979810]

People are comparing the Sholl of 2022, not the one of last season.

He had a pretty solid year.

Can't wait for the nuffies to bring up he isn't a good tackler.

 

[Cromulant]

Can't wait for the nuffies to bring up he isn't a good tackler.

And they'd probably be right, but he does look to have worked on that side of his game.

 

[AFC979810]

And they'd probably be right, but he does look to have worked on that side of his game.

He aint a good tackler.

But it doesn't matter - because you aren't selecting sholl to tackle.

 

[FR0GGY]

He aint a good tackler.

But it doesn't matter - because you aren't selecting sholl to tackle.

He doesn’t get a lot of taps either, could work on his contested marks too.

 

[AFC979810]

He doesn’t get a lot of taps either, could work on his contested marks too.

I haven't been this upset with a player since I found out Nick Murray has only kicked 1 goal in 55 career games. Just don't get why this board rates him so highly.

 

[skam85]

I haven't been this upset with a player since I found out Nick Murray has only kicked 1 goal in 55 career games. Just don't get why this board rates him so highly.

I thought Nank hadn't kicked any yet (He's kicked 1) and stumbled across this on his Wikipedia page



So his nickname is Jedi because he's literally Yoda?