Review R20: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. Hawthorn

[aabp1978]

Is Draper likely to drop to #4? Last I heard, he was potentially going #1? As a Panthers supporter myself, I keep tabs on all the young lads present and emerging. Hopefully Sid can be drafted by you guys. I do not want him drafted by Richmond.

On most of the form guides I have seen he is in the 5-9 range. He is what we need though, and with no go home factor, so I think he needs to be priority 1,2 and 3 this year...

 

[Bazz_27]

We need to thank Hawthorn for utterly exposing us.

We know by now that our coaching is deplorable. Our list management, drafting and recruiting has been poor.

One of the aspects of coaching that drives me mad is how we structure our forwards line. Some weeks we get away with it, but Hawthorn absolutely exposed us this week.

For some reason I simply can't fathom, we simply don't have small forwards of any ability in out forward line. Yes I know Rankine is injured, but we've also had to play him midfield, so can't really consider him a pure small forward anymore.

The other issue is that ever if we did have goal kicking small forwards (think young Rowe), we like to push them all up to the wing. It leaves us with (normally) 2-3 talls standing next to each other. This week we went with 4 of them.

Think about this weeks team.
We had 4 tall forwards. Not one of whom is 'mobile'.
We had Keays, who is a hard running player rather than a small crumber.
We had Rachele who actually gets most of his goals through marking rather than crumbing. He actually plays more as a mid sized forward than a small forward. I won't comment on his chasing or efforts just yet.
We had Cook - another 191 cm player, known for silky skills. Not known for crumbing or pressure.

How did we possibly think this would work? Not one player who is good at ground level. Unless we dominated the midfield and were able to hit up the tall forwards on the lead, we were always going to be in trouble.

The good news is that if it wasn't working, we had a sub option that could change the dynamic - a 197 cm mid/half back. Brilliant!

I question our list management because the small forward options are little to none. Without Rankine, what's next? Looking at the list it's Pedlar (who has been more of a mid growing up) and McHenry. Not one actual small forward.
McHenry might have been a defendable pick - at least he's small. In truth though, he's not a goal kicking small forward. He might get his hand on the ball a bit more, but he's likely to fumble it and turn it over anyway.

Poor team selection, poor coaching, poor drafting and poor list management.

People often blame everyone, whilst we could be below average in lots of different areas or really bad in one (List management for example) if all of these were as bad as you say we would be worse than west coast has been the last 2 years.

There is clear holes in our list and that is where most of our problems are IMO:

• No real back up ruck
• No small forwards
• No real wingers (except Sholl who prior to this year was not a best 22 player)
• A massive lack of experience & leadership to support the young kids coming through
• Way too many list spots taken up by mids
• 2 in and under midfielders with no ability to run who are "experienced"

If you compare us to Hawthorn for example on the above points :

• Got Meek in for nothing when he was not getting a game at freo
• Paid overs for Ginnivan, used an early pick on Watson
• Paid overs for Amon
• Recrutied Amon, Impey, Chol, Scrimshaw, Frost
• Moved on JOM & Micthell

Blame the coach all you want but Reid ain't a list mangers arseh*le

 

[Scorpus]

No benefit not my call

It’s just my hunch , mentioned it the other day that I thought Curtin would play in some capacity ie late out

I don't even know why I'm trying to make sense of Nicks' decisions. It's impossible.

 

[Bazz_27]

The peak Laird moment for me was when Dowling won the ball at a centre clearance coming in off the wing. Under pressure, got tackled, was able to get his hands free. Had Laird in support and fed him the handball in space for him to run onto and be away on the burst.

Instead Laird was hovering back, stationary, hoping that he'd receive a backwards handball so that he could kick a moon ball around the corner off one step. His one wood.

Dowling's handball lands on grass. Turnover. Probably looked bad on TV for Dowling. 100% Laird.

Midfield handover needs to occur as first order of business.

Laird has been declining very badly this season but yesterday was the worst midfield game I've seen from him. Didn't look interested

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

Their tall defence of Weddell, Sicily , Frost and Scrimshaw is very attacking but can all defend also . Yes we went tall but they had the match ups.

Very similar set up to the likes of Richmond and Geelong, they have essentially one tall KPD and almost two 3rd tall athletic defenders who have an ability to play on talls but are mobile enough to support intercepts and aerially at the contest

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I can't remember attending a game I've enjoyed less than yesterday.

Sure, we've had some shockers away from home over the years that have been brutal to sit through but we usually have put something up at home, even in poor years.

To go the best part of three quarters kicking one goal (from a soft free kick) was about as pitiful as I've ever seen us.

Nicks might have been spruiking the 0.6% but the players looked done. Either too young to front up and impact week-in, week-out or simply not good enough except as passengers when better players do the heavy lifting.

I reckon a 6 goal loss was about par without our 2 clear best players and match winners and 3 best key defenders out

But a 13 goal loss was a real disaster , especially since the club is desperate to say that the season went well post the bye , this really puts a dent in their plans to say that …. Which I’m happy about , as they don’t really deserve to talk up anything given where we sit

To me we looked tiny and meek while they looked powerful , fast and strong . They bullied us

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don't even know why I'm trying to make sense of Nicks' decisions. It's impossible.

Yep … don’t bother

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Laird has been declining very badly this season but yesterday was the worst midfield game I've seen from him. Didn't look interested

The obvious thing to do in my mind would have been to play him at half back in easy roles in back half of year boost his trade value and get a top 30 pick in this draft which could help net us a quality local ruck or one of the quality small / medium forwards

Our club will prob think of it when it’s too late or if at all

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

We need to thank Hawthorn for utterly exposing us.

We know by now that our coaching is deplorable. Our list management, drafting and recruiting has been poor.

One of the aspects of coaching that drives me mad is how we structure our forwards line. Some weeks we get away with it, but Hawthorn absolutely exposed us this week.

For some reason I simply can't fathom, we simply don't have small forwards of any ability in out forward line. Yes I know Rankine is injured, but we've also had to play him midfield, so can't really consider him a pure small forward anymore.

The other issue is that ever if we did have goal kicking small forwards (think young Rowe), we like to push them all up to the wing. It leaves us with (normally) 2-3 talls standing next to each other. This week we went with 4 of them.

Think about this weeks team.
We had 4 tall forwards. Not one of whom is 'mobile'.
We had Keays, who is a hard running player rather than a small crumber.
We had Rachele who actually gets most of his goals through marking rather than crumbing. He actually plays more as a mid sized forward than a small forward. I won't comment on his chasing or efforts just yet.
We had Cook - another 191 cm player, known for silky skills. Not known for crumbing or pressure.

How did we possibly think this would work? Not one player who is good at ground level. Unless we dominated the midfield and were able to hit up the tall forwards on the lead, we were always going to be in trouble.

The good news is that if it wasn't working, we had a sub option that could change the dynamic - a 197 cm mid/half back. Brilliant!

I question our list management because the small forward options are little to none. Without Rankine, what's next? Looking at the list it's Pedlar (who has been more of a mid growing up) and McHenry. Not one actual small forward.
McHenry might have been a defendable pick - at least he's small. In truth though, he's not a goal kicking small forward. He might get his hand on the ball a bit more, but he's likely to fumble it and turn it over anyway.

Poor team selection, poor coaching, poor drafting and poor list management.

Yep, we've gone to the draft and selected small midfielders who seem to have OK skills across a lot of areas. We've drafted for versatility instead of players who have 1 or two absolute weapons, and own their position.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

WTF has happened to Keane?

Showed so much promise.

Usually takes the game on, runs off his player, intercepts well, spoils well. Last week virtually saved the game at the death with a fantastic spoil on Caddy.

This week couldn't tell his arse from his elbow.

Keane is best as the least accountable or playing on someone like Charlie Dixon I’m sure he suffered from not having 2 of Butts Murray Worrell out there and the ease of the I50 entries

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yep, we've gone to the draft and selected small midfielders who seem to have OK skills across a lot of areas. We've drafted for versatility instead of players who have 1 or two absolute weapons, and own their position.

Too much emphasis on ‘competitor’ when that should be just the start point , what other AFL weapons do they bring ?

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I haven't had a chance to read through all of this thread yet but I need to get something off my chest.

Am I being too harsh on Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

30

Ht

177cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.0

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

when I say I want him out of the side? He has been a champion of this club, but to me, he is a horrible fir for this young side moving forward.

He seems lazy when opposition have ball in transition, constantly tries to get a cheap handball receive, wouldn't know what a shepard is (to be fair that seems to be a dying thing across the league anyway) Body language doesn't seem great most of the time either.

When you hear him speak in the media the sense of entitlement is overpowering, yes, he will rack up 30 touches a game, but is he really adding much to the side? If we need a veteran in there I would much prefer Crouch who seems to have a much greater ability of getting others involved with his distribution whereas Laird is just a cheap 1-2 followed by a loopy kick.

Moving forward surely he isnt part of the picture, wouldn't it be better for both parties if we could facilitate a trade for him to hopefully play finals again somewhere else.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I haven't had a chance to read through all of this thread yet but I need to get something off my chest.

Am I being too harsh on Rory Laird when I say I want him out of the side? He has been a champion of this club, but to me, he is a horrible fir for this young side moving forward.

He seems lazy when opposition have ball in transition, constantly tries to get a cheap handball receive, wouldn't know what a shepard is (to be fair that seems to be a dying thing across the league anyway) Body language doesn't seem great most of the time either.

When you hear him speak in the media the sense of entitlement is overpowering, yes, he will rack up 30 touches a game, but is he really adding much to the side? If we need a veteran in there I would much prefer Crouch who seems to have a much greater ability of getting others involved with his distribution whereas Laird is just a cheap 1-2 followed by a loopy kick.

Moving forward surely he isnt part of the picture, wouldn't it be better for both parties if we could facilitate a trade for him to hopefully play finals again somewhere else.

Don’t lie. You’ve read all 16 pages?

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Don’t lie. You’ve read all 16 pages?

Give me 30 mins, I feel I need to do this sitting down with a coffee

 

[FR0GGY]

Probably should have been Keays

Was Keays that much better?

 

[Cap]

I think Nicks simply doesn't know what he's doing

Hey Nicksy? You've got our freshest player on the bench and our midfield has been smashed all game.

Oh yeah... I hadn't thought of that.

He's not intuitive at all. Poor plans, unable to see how things might unfold beforehand, not sharp enough to recognise patterns during a game, no feel for when to make a change and when to stick.

Occasionally some individual player talent shines through and we play well but he doesn't have a clue why

Even the comment that he didn't want to activate the sub was just weird.

We were getting belted, his size player was exactly what we needed.

 

[FR0GGY]

Even the comment that he didn't want to activate the sub was just weird.

We were getting belted, his size player was exactly what we needed.

What?

 

[jackster83]

Can anyone explain why, with four key forwards in the team, we've still got ROB flying for marks against them in our forward 50?

I mean it's unlikely he will actually hold a mark and even more unlikely that he'll convert the set shot.

Our coaches are complete morons.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Left half way through the third and watching Olympics highlights at the pub, and I don't care. So disengaged with the club it's scary

Yeah...but hey!!

We still beat the Matildas. They only kicked 6 goals to our 8.

 

[Bazz_27]

Even the comment that he didn't want to activate the sub was just weird.

We were getting belted, his size player was exactly what we needed.

I thought it was reasonable to make sure Nankervis was going to be okay to continue before making the sub. If he was done for the day and we subbed someone else off he would've been ripped to shreds. Can't win

 

[radiojake]

Matthew Nicks

Matthew Nicks

Age

49

Ht

187cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

0.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.4

3star

officially become the 2nd longest serving AFC coach yesterday

 

[Thommo#21]

I haven't had a chance to read through all of this thread yet but I need to get something off my chest.

Am I being too harsh on Rory Laird when I say I want him out of the side? He has been a champion of this club, but to me, he is a horrible fir for this young side moving forward.

He seems lazy when opposition have ball in transition, constantly tries to get a cheap handball receive, wouldn't know what a shepard is (to be fair that seems to be a dying thing across the league anyway) Body language doesn't seem great most of the time either.

When you hear him speak in the media the sense of entitlement is overpowering, yes, he will rack up 30 touches a game, but is he really adding much to the side? If we need a veteran in there I would much prefer Crouch who seems to have a much greater ability of getting others involved with his distribution whereas Laird is just a cheap 1-2 followed by a loopy kick.

Moving forward surely he isnt part of the picture, wouldn't it be better for both parties if we could facilitate a trade for him to hopefully play finals again somewhere else.

100% agree, but we all know it wont happen. We've never been a club to make a ruthless decision. Our coaching panel seem to ignore or arent smart enough to see what the rest of us see.

 

[hippyhippy]

I haven't had a chance to read through all of this thread yet but I need to get something off my chest.

Am I being too harsh on Rory Laird when I say I want him out of the side? He has been a champion of this club, but to me, he is a horrible fir for this young side moving forward.

He seems lazy when opposition have ball in transition, constantly tries to get a cheap handball receive, wouldn't know what a shepard is (to be fair that seems to be a dying thing across the league anyway) Body language doesn't seem great most of the time either.

When you hear him speak in the media the sense of entitlement is overpowering, yes, he will rack up 30 touches a game, but is he really adding much to the side? If we need a veteran in there I would much prefer Crouch who seems to have a much greater ability of getting others involved with his distribution whereas Laird is just a cheap 1-2 followed by a loopy kick.

Moving forward surely he isnt part of the picture, wouldn't it be better for both parties if we could facilitate a trade for him to hopefully play finals again somewhere else.

2024 laird... Calls for the ball.. if he don't get it he has a tantrum ... If he does get it, rush kick for a turnover

 

[Jarman3]

Too much emphasis on ‘competitor’ when that should be just the start point , what other AFL weapons do they bring ?

Good families?

 

[Geoffa32]

And Nicks kept him off at the start of the 4th.

Is this a case of us recruiting a player the coach doesn't want ?

I feel VB and Nicks struggle with Curtin because of how unique he is.


Curtin is a natural midfielder, just a big one.

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