Preview RD 16 Geelong v Essendon Sat Jun 29 730pm @ MCG

[dazbroncos]

His brother mauled him, and his instant reaction was, as you said, to drop his head. He was bullied and intimidated.

He came back a bit in the second half, and I wouldn't mind betting that was the result of being told to 'stop being insipid and get back out there and show some bloody fight'.

He's going to get monstered by Goldie and Draper.

I don't get it either.

Hes a good defender. Let him defend. He's not playing great for sure but Domsy and HT had shit months too and he's revered now.
Bloke is 23. LEt him be a defender.

GO Catters

 

[Cataholic]

I think recency bias from the Carlton game has clouded people’s view of just how bad Stanley has been this year. He was absolutely putrid against the Swans. How many times has he been subbed for performance in the last 18 months? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Stanley shouldn’t go anywhere near the seniors for the rest of his career.
Yes Sam got a hiding, but he was also one of the highest rated players on the ground. Against his brother, who is older, more experienced and one of the form players of the comp.
I thought there was plenty of cause for optimism.
The current mix isn’t working, Stanley is cooked, Blicavs has been horrible, Conway is still too young to shoulder lead ruck role. I’d be happy to Sam in there for the rest of year.

I'm not mocking him for it because it's understandable, but SDK is scared atm, and he needs to sort it out asap.

He was overwhelmed by his brother's ferocity, physicality and determination, and cowered in the face of it. He was utterly unprepared for it.

His brother saw / knew it, and bullied him with ease because of it.

He came back out with a little fight in him in the second half, which was encouraging, but he needs to continue that trajectory.

Trouble is, Goldie and Draper would've seen that, and will work him over hard.

 

[catswhiskers]

Well. I watched SDK get beaten up early in the game v Blues as well.

I had hoped for better too.

Then, while flicking through player stats for the game, I got a surprise.

SDK had 8th highest rating ( both teams) 3rd best Geelong.

That suggests to me that his second half was pretty good AND that his around the ground work was more than handy.

I like that GFC doesn't give after one try. SDK needs to be freed from Full back.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[cats_09]

I wouldn't say I'd be happy, I'd be resigned to it

Happy isn't necessarily the word I'd use, but I'm curious to see how it goes

I wonder if it's also bit of a short term move to try and spark something in SDK and potentially a bit more freedom in his role

 

[Cataholic]

Hes a good defender. Let him defend. He's not playing great for sure but Domsy and HT had shit months too and he's revered now.
Bloke is 23. LEt him be a defender.

GO Catters

Agreed. He's not a ruckman.

Let him defend as you say. He knows that role, and doing what he knows will help him regain his confidence, because the kid is gun-shy atm.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Happy isn't necessarily the word I'd use, but I'm curious to see how it goes

I wonder if it's also bit of a short term move to try and spark something in SDK and potentially a bit more freedom in his role

Yeah I thought sending him in and getting him knocked around a bit helped him work into the game. He was a lot more physical by the end. Last week I think was good for an expectations reset.

I'm OK with it so long as the expectation put on him this week is that we don't care so much of he's beaten, you just have to make gold earn it.

 

[Cataholic]

Well. I watched SDK get beaten up early in the game v Blues as well.

I had hoped for better too.

Then, while flicking through player stats for the game, I got a surprise.

SDK had 8th highest rating ( both teams) 3rd best Geelong.

That suggests to me that his second half was pretty good AND that his around the ground work was more than handy.

I like that GFC doesn't give after one try. SDK needs to be freed from Full back.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I must've watched a different game.

He was rubbish in the first half, and redeemed himself a little in the second imo.

 

[year of the cat]

Conway is a far better option playing ruck than SDK. Is there any legitimate reason he’s not in the team? If it’s lack of fitness sorry I’m not buying it. Blicavs can take over when he needs a spell. At the moment we have this ridiculous situation playing SDK in the ruck which he’s 1. no good at and 2. it throws the team balance out.

Unless we are tanking.

 

[bulletproof]

I actually don’t mind SDK in the ruck. I think he could be very good there.

I would have preferred to play Conway as well. Move Blicavs back, and SDK ruck/forward.

No Neale. I am not a Neale fan, sorry.

Conway is a far more talented player than him.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Happy isn't necessarily the word I'd use, but I'm curious to see how it goes

I wonder if it's also bit of a short term move to try and spark something in SDK and potentially a bit more freedom in his role

I think you are on the money. Two main objectives I reckon…

Firstly i can see them coming to the view that we aren’t really losing much in terms of impact short game win/loss. Stanley has been killed whoever he has played….and Conway (whilst I love him) has also been ragdolled a lot and I can see them thinking it is a material difference between SDK and the alternatives… in short term.

So then it comes down I think to getting SDK mojo back. No doubt it gets him involved in the game more and he can just see ball get ball…. Long term frankly I think it is great to have him capable of playing ruck (can’t see why TDK should be fundamentally better?) and I don’t mind the thought of SDK potentially being a forward option over time (back up to Neale not working?).

I like the thought of not pigeon holing SDK so early in his career.

 

[Cataholic]

Conway is a far better option playing ruck than SDK. Is there any legitimate reason he’s not in the team? If it’s lack of fitness sorry I’m not buying it. Blicavs can take over when he needs a spell. At the moment we have this ridiculous situation playing SDK in the ruck which he’s 1. no good at and 2. it throws the team balance out.

Unless we are tanking.

Injured I think.

 

[dazbroncos]

I'm not mocking him for it because it's understandable, but SDK is scared atm, and he needs to sort it out asap.

He was overwhelmed by his brother's ferocity, physicality and determination, and cowered in the face of it. He was utterly unprepared for it.

His brother saw / knew it, and bullied him with ease because of it.

He came back out with a little fight in him in the second half, which was encouraging, but he needs to continue that trajectory.

Trouble is, Goldie and Draper would've seen that, and will work him over hard.

I would agree. He was totally unprepared for it - given he's never played ruck and has not been coached to do it.
Im sure there is a mindset for all athletes but that can also differ by their roles and positions.

And he got better in the second half.... but im still amazed at the depth of vitriol headed in his direction

GO Catters

 

[Zouz Kitty]

It is like taking a Golden Retriever to Belgian Malinois training

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

I see fantastic opportunities for the Belgian Malinois to learn so much from the intelligent + adaptable Golden Retriever. Golden Retrievers are hunting dogs. Belgian Malinois sheep herding dogs. Plus Golden Retrievers are better with cats, which obviously is a vital necessity. In fact, let's breed them.

On second thoughts, let's just stick with cats

 

[Cataholic]

I think you are on the money. Two main objectives I reckon…

Firstly i can see them coming to the view that we aren’t really losing much in terms of impact short game win/loss. Stanley has been killed whoever he has played….and Conway (whilst I love him) has also been ragdolled a lot and I can see them thinking it is a material difference between SDK and the alternatives… in short term.

So then it comes down I think to getting SDK mojo back. No doubt it gets him involved in the game more and he can just see ball get ball…. Long term frankly I think it is great to have him capable of playing ruck (can’t see why TDK should be fundamentally better?) and I don’t mind the thought of SDK potentially being a forward option over time (back up to Neale not working?).

I like the thought of not pigeon holing SDK so early in his career.

I get the idea of not pigeon holing, but the trouble for SDK is that 'see ball get ball' is just not his instinct atm.

Physical contact worries him. It's playing with his mind. He needs to overcome that asap.

Playing him in the ruck might be Scott's way of forcing him into physical contact in an attempt to overcome his demons, and it may work. It also carries a risk that it could feed his fear.

In comparison to his brother, SDK is a twig. TDK has obviously spent time in the gym. Yes, he's (18mths?) older, but his muscle and conditioning is much better too.

For mine TDK knows of the voices in Sam's head, and he took advantage. Goldie and Draper will try and do the same.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I think it's due to us not selecting him in the seniors - the belief that he's therefore unhappy

I can only guess if Mannagh is happy or not.

I'll assume he isn't super happy.

The guy would be taking a pay cut to sit in the same comp he was dominating last year, but this year we aren't playing him in a position that gives him the chance to play like he did last year.

If he went to another club, he'd probably be playing most weeks and make at least double, if not triple what he'd be making this year.

The guy's partner just had a kid... not sure if she worked prior and is now down her wage (possibly).

Now Mannagh turns pro footballer and they'd be doing worse financially because he would have quit his full-time job in Altona and also won't be getting Werribee VFL payments (I do assume he got something for that).

We as a club selected him and have given him a chance... and whilst yes, we don't owe him anything (we got him contracted)... I look at it from afar and think "I don't love how we have gone about this from a human perspective".

I'm not even sure if he lives in Geelong... I wouldn't be surprised if he came from Werribee/Altona area each day.

He worked his ass off to finally be good enough in recruiter's eyes to be drafted... Then draft him and plonk him at full forward in the magoos.

I just don't love it and there's no way he'd be not at least thinking that he would have been better off playing elsewhere.

On the flip side... There is the possibility that got drafted by Freo (who were keen) and he'd be sitting in the WAFL also not playing and have his partner and baby interstate with him (away from support) whilst being basically on minimum wage... I think he'd be playing more if at another club that rated him. If he isn't good enough to be playing half-forward at a different club that is less stacked than us in that position then why would we draft him in the first place.

I also think it's about 5k per match payment... If he is not getting some games in the 1's, I reckon things would be tight.

So for me, I'm not as focused on him playing seniors as Pure_Ownage is, because the position we have him in the VFL deny's him any chance to progress (so I'm not shocked at all he isn't playing).

I'm more looking at it from how we might be doing this guy's career dirty by drafting him and I expect more from us as a club.

There's every chance the shine of his 2023 VFL season could be rubbed off and he being an extra year older means that other clubs may no longer want him.

From an outsider looking in... It's disappointing, although maybe Manngh is chuffed as can be and has no issues.

Why the heck would we use that draft pick on a 175cm 26-year-old and have him playing as an undersized FF in the VFL when he is a dynamic half-forward.

Someone has miscalculated here.

 

[Cataholic]

I would agree. He was totally unprepared for it - given he's never played ruck and has not been coached to do it.
Im sure there is a mindset for all athletes but that can also differ by their roles and positions.

And he got better in the second half.... but im still amazed at the depth of vitriol headed in his direction

GO Catters

Yeah, he had a tough gig playing a different role, but for mine the bigger issue was that he was totally unprepared for how his opponent came at him physically.

I reckon TDK knows better than anyone about Sam's reluctance to engage with physicality, and took full advantage of that knowledge. He went at Sam hard, and Sam wilted.

To his credit he bounced back a bit in the second half. Hopefully that was the result of a rising self determination to not accept the bullying anymore, and to become more physical himself.

It'll be an interesting watch. We need the vintage 2022 Sam back.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Nah surely it's not that bad? Where is the idea coming from that he is unhappy?

I think it's assumed Stengle misses Eddy Betts + family. He stays with them when playing at MCG.

 

[Finknottle]

Hes a good defender. Let him defend. He's not playing great for sure but Domsy and HT had shit months too and he's revered now.
Bloke is 23. LEt him be a defender.

GO Catters

I must have watched a different game last week. I thought TomDK had his best game for the year. He was not monstered in the ruck and he contributed well in general play. He has been insipid in defence all year. I would love to see this experiment continue. Sure Carlton's midfield monstered our midfield but that's because they have A-graders going through there compared to our B and C graders. Patrick Cripps, Sam Walsh and Co were the most influential players on the ground. The top 5 rated players included Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Acers. That has been the recurring theme since Geelong went on it's losing streak - opposition midfields getting off the chain. Guys like Atkins and Bruhn are battling on but are hopelessly outgunned.

 

[moond0g]

Injured I think.

he played VFL on the weekend?

 

[FootyLad0]

I think it's assumed Stengle misses Eddy Betts + family. He stays with them when playing at MCG.

We are talking about Mannagh not Stengle

 

[moond0g]

I don't hate the SDK ruck experiment.

I think the ruck role can be overrated at times, and it allows them to play SDK, Neale and Blicavs (assuming they rate those 3 higher than Conway/Stanley) and have an extra midfielder, half back etc. But it is interesting that Conway was hyped so much earlier in the year and is now playing VFL while we parachute in someone who has never really played the role.

I also think you have to consider who you're playing. I wouldn't want to do it against Gawn, Grundy etc. And while Goldstein is a bit older now, they've selected both Goldy and Draper and we've gone with no recognised ruck which is interesting. It could turn out great, or it could blow up in our face.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not mocking him for it because it's understandable, but SDK is scared atm, and he needs to sort it out asap.

He was overwhelmed by his brother's ferocity, physicality and determination, and cowered in the face of it. He was utterly unprepared for it.

His brother saw / knew it, and bullied him with ease because of it.

He came back out with a little fight in him in the second half, which was encouraging, but he needs to continue that trajectory.

Trouble is, Goldie and Draper would've seen that, and will work him over hard.

It wasn't fear.

It was just a fish out of water. TDK is an in-form, stronger built ruckman while SDK is a down-on-form, more gangly player who is definitely not a ruckman. Those first few contests were always going to be brutal and I knew it was going to play out the way it did.

I'd be blaming the coaches more than SDK for that one, although I can understand they wanted to see if a radical move could spark the kid.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I can only guess if Mannagh is happy or not.

I'll assume he isn't super happy.

The guy would be taking a pay cut to sit in the same comp he was dominating last year, but this year we aren't playing him in a position that gives him the chance to play like he did last year.

If he went to another club, he'd probably be playing most weeks and make at least double, if not triple what he'd be making this year.

The guy's partner just had a kid... not sure if she worked prior and is now down her wage (possibly).

Now Mannagh turns pro footballer and they'd be doing worse financially because he would have quit his full-time job in Altona and also won't be getting Werribee VFL payments (I do assume he got something for that).

We as a club selected him and have given him a chance... and whilst yes, we don't owe him anything (we got him contracted)... I look at it from afar and think "I don't love how we have gone about this from a human perspective".

I'm not even sure if he lives in Geelong... I wouldn't be surprised if he came from Werribee/Altona area each day.

He worked his ass off to finally be good enough in recruiter's eyes to be drafted... Then draft him and plonk him at full forward in the magoos.

I just don't love it and there's no way he'd be not at least thinking that he would have been better off playing elsewhere.

On the flip side... There is the possibility that got drafted by Freo (who were keen) and he'd be sitting in the WAFL also not playing and have his partner and baby interstate with him (away from support) whilst being basically on minimum wage... I think he'd be playing more if at another club that rated him. If he isn't good enough to be playing half-forward at a different club that is less stacked than us in that position then why would we draft him in the first place.

I also think it's about 5k per match payment... If he is not getting some games in the 1's, I reckon things would be tight.

So for me, I'm not as focused on him playing seniors as Pure_Ownage is, because the position we have him in the VFL deny's him any chance to progress (so I'm not shocked at all he isn't playing).

I'm more looking at it from how we might be doing this guy's career dirty by drafting him and I expect more from us as a club.

There's every chance the shine of his 2023 VFL season could be rubbed off and he being an extra year older means that other clubs may no longer want him.

From an outsider looking in... It's disappointing, although maybe Manngh is chuffed as can be and has no issues.

Why the heck would we use that draft pick on a 175cm 26-year-old and have him playing as an undersized FF in the VFL when he is a dynamic half-forward.

Someone has miscalculated here.

It takes two to tango though, how many clubs are going out of their way to chase him?

 

[year of the cat]

Injured I think.

Didn’t notice anything in the VFL.

 

[D BRIDGE]

It takes two to tango though, how many clubs are going out of their way to chase him?

Other clubs were keen and going to take him for sure.

That's why we took him as early as we did and didn't wait until last picks.

Freo was keen and just lost Shultz... Can only assume they wanted Mannagh to step in for Shultz.

Someone on here even made an outrageous claim that Mannagh would have a better season than Shultz.