Autopsy Rd 2 Blues suffer bitterly disappointing loss to arch rival

[LanceRomance]

Game on the line a chance for a comeback still on the cards somehow and we put up 2 tackles in the first 15 minutes of the last quarter.

How's that for fight and desperation.

I just dont get how the players let that happen.

 

[Brackets]

Just rewatched the first half with this for reference, and although the work put into it is commendable, there is a lot of personal opinion swaying some of the centre square analysis.

It's clear that Dow and Ed don't favour much sway with you, which is fine if you're offering an opinion on a platform that is all about opinions.

It is not personal opinion that is swaying my comments - it is the cumulation of watching all our centre bounces and seeing a consistent pattern.

My comments are of course nothing more than my own interpretetation though. You're correct to challenge or disagree.

But when Walsh fires a handball half a metre in front of Ed and the only comment is that Ed fumbled the ball, the analysis is clearly reported with a sense of bias.

My comments start much more detailed, which I condense for the purpose of conciseness when posting.

I also review the following plays until the ball is won because I'm more interested in the overall contribution, not who simply who gets it out of the centre square

Here is the passage of play and my rationale:

First contest:


None of our other mids came close to matching Walsh, so when he wins it but doesn't deliver it on a platter in this instance, my initial opinion is swayed against being overly critical.

I maintain that Ed should have done better. Despite this, the passage of play isn't over so far as my review is concerned as it is still in dispute.

Second contest:


Ed is pushed out of the contest, and Walsh backs up to cause a dispute otherwise the Pies may have been away.

Third contest:


Walsh backs up again, and gets it going forward. Dow enters the contest, is pushed out of it by his opponent who then wins the ball.

End result:
Walsh excellent with multiple efforts so I'm inclined to be complimentary rather than critical. Ed and Dow poor imo, Ed twice though so I delete criticism of Dow, and keep one comment on Ed.

Same goes with Dow. If I only based my opinion of the game and your analysis, I could clearly deduce that Dow was the worst player on the pitch. Calling him "very poor" with absolutely no context is pretty strong language considering his man just beat him to the ball.

Not sure how they avoided being tarred with the same brush.

There are plenty of other examples where particular players have been, in my mind, unfairly judged as opposed to others. All I would say is to base your opinions on what you actually see, and not on what others with potential personal agendas might be reporting.

Dow was close to our worst player imo but my comments are in the context of our centre bounces, and he was the worst next to Setterfield.

Regarding that comment though, I said very poor because that passage was the exact reason he shouldn't be getting games. Like above I could go into detail why, but don't have the time.

If you can watch that passage and not see how bad his contribution was though, as kindly as I could suggest it, you would do better to review your own ability to assess before than mine.

 

[Broadside]

He's a great player, no doubt. Just running possible scenarios in my head, and wondering whether he remains a feared midfielder as far as opposition are concerned. Or, thinking about worst-case-scenario, if Cripps were to surprise us all and ask for a trade, whether it would be quite the performance hit we would have thought it would have been 2-3 years ago.

we looked more dangerous last match when Cripps wasn't in the centre square. I can't see a WA team making us a Godfather offer though. He and the coaching staff need to find a way to turn things around and use his attributes better. eg rather than taking on 3 opponents single handedly, dish off to someone better placed who can kick better. That's how he became great in the first place. Doesn't happen so much now.

 

[Chookaradley]

Im not seeing a real desire to tackle and defend. Who really wants to lay a tackle apart from Fogarty? Our team defence is poor. Teague is trying to develop a very offensive game style and its really hurting us going the other way.

Remember Essendon under Knights??. How did that turn out.

 

[windows1]

I am a little dumbfounded. Plowman, well, he had EIGHT kicked on him in the first half and it could have been nine.

In a half. The first half wasn’t what I thought. It was simply the L Plowman show. Gee it was disappointing. The worst being knocked off the ball by Daicos.

he played with zero intensity. Truly bad.

 

[TheVapors]

Here is the passage of play and my rationale:

First contest:
View attachment 1087137

None of our other mids came close to matching Walsh, so when he wins it but doesn't deliver it on a platter in this instance, my initial opinion is swayed against being overly critical.

I maintain that Ed should have done better. Despite this, the passage of play isn't over so far as my review is concerned as it is still in dispute.

Second contest:
View attachment 1087162

Ed is pushed out of the contest, and Walsh backs up to cause a dispute otherwise the Pies may have been away.

Third contest:
View attachment 1087164

Walsh backs up again, and gets it going forward. Dow enters the contest, is pushed out of it by his opponent who then wins the ball.

End result:
Walsh excellent with multiple efforts so I'm inclined to be complimentary rather than critical. Ed and Dow poor imo, Ed twice though so I delete criticism of Dow, and keep one comment on Ed.

If you can watch that passage and not see how bad his contribution was though, as kindly as I could suggest it, you would do better to review your own ability to assess before than mine.

I'm not judging your ability to assess, I'm just making comment on being aware of passing personal comment on as unbiased analysis. Picking and choosing the information you put forward to support certain ideals is a good way to affect the validity of your analysis. The work you've put in is great, I just think it needs to come with some caveats.

In terms of the outlined play, I'll agree that Walsh did well getting to the ball first. He got a favourable bounce to pick-up the ball and then fired off a very mediocre handball under no pressure to put one of our players under pressure.

Although your initial analysis mentioned nothing of following the play after the centre clearance, it now appears that this is relevant. Ed did poorly, no doubt, and Walsh's back-up play was very good to make a contest. Whether a punch forward is good play is debatable. Looking at Dow getting pushed out, it could easily be noted that Gibbons put in a poor effort to sheppard and allow Dow time to pick up the ball. But again this fact doesn't speak to the desired result.

You might believe that my ability to analyse the play is poor. Fair enough. I've never played AFL or even football at any level above primary school. I just don't base analysis on my personal opinion of a player, I just base it off the evidence in front of me.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Blame the recruiting, we haven’t recruited a small defender since Stephen Browne.

Historically, we recruit midfielders and blood them in a back pocket.

Brett Ratten, Tony Lynn, Liam Stocker come to mind right off the bat.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Maybe 'fringe as in break glass in emergency...Setters could be a great player for us in a coule of years - maybe- but I dont htink we have the development or coaching nouce of teh better teams.

I watch every game of GWS and Sydney cos I live up here - and have a soft spot for both - Sydney are a magnificent outfit coached by a very good coach - they bring in kids who play better thn our 4/5 year 'developing' kids. GWS unfortunately got stuck with a bad coach - wasted 2-3 prime years- but their midfield is stacked. They just dont play with the same 100% passion and hardness as they could or should - otherwise they woudl have won 3-4 flags by now.

We carltonified setters too damn fast. He was one Gws didn't want to lose.

 

[Blue Warrior]

I think we have a player in fogarty that could play as that lockdown defender he has the energy,hardness,doesn't give up and speed which is required of a good defender.
A back six of
Fogarty Jones Docherty
Saad Weitering Newman
would be a decent back six. It gets Plowman and SPS out of there who are not great defenders.
We have too many who want to zone off and look good running with the ball rather than just locking down their man (coaching?) and being aggressive.

I think Saad/Newman will be that run carry we need off half back line with Docherty to be the aggressive throw his body in at the contest type filling the hole Fogarty lock down their best small and Weitering/Jones to do what they do every week and that's give their all. We need to get conditional footballers out of the back line and have blokes in their with a bit of campaigner in them.

 

[BAZZMAN]

why can't mathew kennedy get a game
i would have him in the side ahead of murphy

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I thought there are 6 or 7 changes we need to make after Thursday but there seems to be a reluctance to make many changes so we might see 1 or 2 for the next match.

Probably. This puzzles me though. Teague likes to have faith in the same players to rectify the situation, but does this mean he doesn't have faith in the players outside the team to come in and have an influence?

Why does be look at the deficiencies of Stocker, Kennedy etc when it comes to selecting them, but he looks at the upside of incumbents when it comes to dropping them?

I feel like we need to be more dispassionate at these times.

Are we selecting those that back the coach in 100% ahead of those who are starting to become disgruntled?

 

[__Bobcat__]

Plow doesn't have all those goals kicked on him, if the softcocks up the ground do their job and chase, harass, tackle.

The New "STAND".on the Mark rule docent help either.

****ing sick of the umps yelling "STAND" all the time.

 

[Lace_Out]

He's a great player, no doubt. Just running possible scenarios in my head, and wondering whether he remains a feared midfielder as far as opposition are concerned. Or, thinking about worst-case-scenario, if Cripps were to surprise us all and ask for a trade, whether it would be quite the performance hit we would have thought it would have been 2-3 years ago.

Fair question, on current face value you say no. However, his loss is more than just an on field one. He's part of the very fabric of this rebuild.

Not sure if it would be a surprise if he did ask for a trade either.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Lace_Out]

I am a little dumbfounded. Plowman, well, he had EIGHT kicked on him in the first half and it could have been nine.

In a half. The first half wasn’t what I thought. It was simply the L Plowman show. Gee it was disappointing. The worst being knocked off the ball by Daicos.

he played with zero intensity. Truly bad.

Had eight kicked on him and ended up the eighth ranked player on the field.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[AndyLucimitis]

The New "STAND".on the Mark rule docent help either.

****ing sick of the umps yelling "STAND" all the time.

Sorry but I think it’s a great rule. Has opened the game up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[__Bobcat__]

Sorry but I think it’s a great rule. Has opened the game up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its a Great rule don't get me wrong.
Not a great rule when your a backman, defending one on one.

 

[Metalcrusher]

why can't mathew kennedy get a game
i would have him in the side ahead of murphy

Teague does not rate Kennedy ... obviously.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Dow was close to our worst player imo but my comments are in the context of our centre bounces, and he was the worst next to Setterfield.

Regarding that comment though, I said very poor because that passage was the exact reason he shouldn't be getting games. Like above I could go into detail why, but don't have the time.

If you can watch that passage and not see how bad his contribution was though, as kindly as I could suggest it, you would do better to review your own ability to assess before than mine.

He was nowhere near our worst player...

I'm not saying he was great, I thought he played just ok had some nice passages and had some that were no good like the one you pointed out.

I've never been really critical of Plowman, not once have I jumped on board the Plow hate train in the past, but fmd despite how shit the defensive pressure from the midfield was, Plow was shocking, particularly in that first half.

Before having a go at others ability to judge, how about looking at the expected output when you judge the worst player on ground? Dow is entering his 4th season. He had an injury interrupted season last year and is trying to overcome expectations and public criticism. As a young kid still, he has scope to improve.

It's fine if you want to point out areas where he wasn't good enough, however, guys like Cripps who we expect to be putting in more as the club captain and delivering that? Sorry, but being flat against Collingwood at the 'G when you're supposed to be leading your side to finals is unacceptable.

Docherty had only 3 clangers, yet they stand out like a sore thumb because they were all caused by pressure. As a captain, sorry but the expectation is you stand up under pressure, not kick OOF.

Did you watch Casboult? Seriously did you watch him? He was PATHETIC. Sorry, but he just did not deserve to get a game ahead of OMac I don't care what anyone says.

Our captains and more senior players were the ones who really let us down. The torch should be pointed squarely on them. Cripps wants to come out in the media and say he's 100% behind the club and the direction we're going, won't leave etc. then why hasn't he re-signed yet? What's he waiting for? To see whether we make finals this year first? I sincerely hope that's not the case. His job is to LEAD this group... not wait and see what they're capable of. It just sends the wrong message to the fans and the playing group.

Regardless of his reasons, whether it's what I said or something else, in order to lead a playing group... you've got to believe in them and commit.

 

[Metalcrusher]

He was nowhere near our worst player...

I'm not saying he was great, I thought he played just ok had some nice passages and had some that were no good like the one you pointed out.

I've never been really critical of Plowman, not once have I jumped on board the Plow hate train in the past, but fmd despite how sh*t the defensive pressure from the midfield was, Plow was shocking, particularly in that first half.

Before having a go at others ability to judge, how about looking at the expected output when you judge the worst player on ground? Dow is entering his 4th season. He had an injury interrupted season last year and is trying to overcome expectations and public criticism. As a young kid still, he has scope to improve.

It's fine if you want to point out areas where he wasn't good enough, however, guys like Cripps who we expect to be putting in more as the club captain and delivering that? Sorry, but being flat against Collingwood at the 'G when you're supposed to be leading your side to finals is unacceptable.

Docherty had only 3 clangers, yet they stand out like a sore thumb because they were all caused by pressure. As a captain, sorry but the expectation is you stand up under pressure, not kick OOF.

Did you watch Casboult? Seriously did you watch him? He was PATHETIC. Sorry, but he just did not deserve to get a game ahead of OMac I don't care what anyone says.

Our captains and more senior players were the ones who really let us down. The torch should be pointed squarely on them. Cripps wants to come out in the media and say he's 100% behind the club and the direction we're going, won't leave etc. then why hasn't he re-signed yet? What's he waiting for? To see whether we make finals this year first? I sincerely hope that's not the case. His job is to LEAD this group... not wait and see what they're capable of. It just sends the wrong message to the fans and the playing group.

Regardless of his reasons, whether it's what I said or something else, in order to lead a playing group... you've got to believe in them and commit.

Question has to be asked, if a team directly target ONE defender for countless entries, you would think the coaching panel would react by either ..

a) Getting someone to drop into the hole in front or ..
b) shuffle the deck chairs ...

I put it to you some of the leads that were targeted at plows man ... no one would have stopped "one V one"

Neither happened. Makes you wonder doesn't it ..

Right up there with letting Adams of the chain and taking until HALF TIME for someone (Teague/Line Coach etc) to tag him (Ed Curnow) .......

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It is not personal opinion that is swaying my comments - it is the cumulation of watching all our centre bounces and seeing a consistent pattern.

My comments are of course nothing more than my own interpretetation though. You're correct to challenge or disagree.

My comments start much more detailed, which I condense for the purpose of conciseness when posting.

I also review the following plays until the ball is won because I'm more interested in the overall contribution, not who simply who gets it out of the centre square

Here is the passage of play and my rationale:

First contest:
View attachment 1087137

None of our other mids came close to matching Walsh, so when he wins it but doesn't deliver it on a platter in this instance, my initial opinion is swayed against being overly critical.

I maintain that Ed should have done better. Despite this, the passage of play isn't over so far as my review is concerned as it is still in dispute.

Second contest:
View attachment 1087162

Ed is pushed out of the contest, and Walsh backs up to cause a dispute otherwise the Pies may have been away.

Third contest:
View attachment 1087164

Walsh backs up again, and gets it going forward. Dow enters the contest, is pushed out of it by his opponent who then wins the ball.

End result:
Walsh excellent with multiple efforts so I'm inclined to be complimentary rather than critical. Ed and Dow poor imo, Ed twice though so I delete criticism of Dow, and keep one comment on Ed.


Dow was close to our worst player imo but my comments are in the context of our centre bounces, and he was the worst next to Setterfield.

Regarding that comment though, I said very poor because that passage was the exact reason he shouldn't be getting games. Like above I could go into detail why, but don't have the time.

If you can watch that passage and not see how bad his contribution was though, as kindly as I could suggest it, you would do better to review your own ability to assess before than mine.

Those plays can be viewed a thousand ways. It started with Walsh doing the most basic of skill errors (the biggest killer in the whole play) then also didn’t show the part where Curnow got up tackled/pressured the Collingwood player freeing the ball for Walsh to smash it forward.

 

[rp84]

Probably. This puzzles me though. Teague likes to have faith in the same players to rectify the situation, but does this mean he doesn't have faith in the players outside the team to come in and have an influence?

Why does be look at the deficiencies of Stocker, Kennedy etc when it comes to selecting them, but he looks at the upside of incumbents when it comes to dropping them?

I feel like we need to be more dispassionate at these times.

Are we selecting those that back the coach in 100% ahead of those who are starting to become disgruntled?

After last year's diabolical team management, which ultimately cost us a shot at finishing 8th, I am really down on our MC.

After seemingly no ability to create a balanced game plan and a coherent midfield set up, I really am starting to cool on DT.

Needs to show an inkling of tactical nous, and soon.

Freo looked pretty dangerous last week so I am really worried about being 0 and 3.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Question has to be asked, if a team directly target ONE defender for countless entries, you would think the coaching panel would react by either ..

a) Getting someone to drop into the hole in front or ..
b) shuffle the deck chairs ...

I put it to you some of the leads that were targeted at plows man ... no one would have stopped "one V one"

Neither happened. Makes you wonder doesn't it ..

Right up there with letting Adams of the chain and taking until HALF TIME for someone (Teague/Line Coach etc) to tag him (Ed Curnow) .......

We might to change the way we play Crush.
More of a defensive mindset, then run and gun from the backline. Thats if we don't win the centre contest, at the bounce.

 

[Brackets]

Picking and choosing the information you put forward to support certain ideals is a good way to affect the validity of your analysis.The work you've put in is great, I just think it needs to come with some caveats.

Out of all the comments made regarding our centre clearances, I daresay I've included more reasoning, and pinpointed the exact examples, for the basis of my opinion than most.

If you want detailed play by play description of each bounce, you can watch the game. A summary is just that.

So far as it needing to come with caveats, posting it on a discussion forum rather than sending it to the club with my resume should be all the caveat needed.

Whether a punch forward is good play is debatable. Looking at Dow getting pushed out, it could easily be noted that Gibbons put in a poor effort to sheppard and allow Dow time to pick up the ball. But again this fact doesn't speak to the desired result.

If I was going to write a paragraph on each play, then yes these points may have been noted.

Given I chose not to highlight that Dow was poor in the contest however, I didn't see the need to highlight potential allowances for it either.

In terms of the outlined play, I'll agree that Walsh did well getting to the ball first. He got a favourable bounce to pick-up the ball and then fired off a very mediocre handball under no pressure to put one of our players under pressure.

So what is your actual opinion of the whole play, and how would you choose to summarise it concisely?

You might believe that my ability to analyse the play is poor. Fair enough. I've never played AFL or even football at any level above primary school. I just don't base analysis on my personal opinion of a player, I just base it off the evidence in front of me.

But you're not analysing the play, you're analysing my interpretation of it. You're nitpicking the odd description which has been made through the lens of seeing every contest in detail, and attempting to keep the summary to a digestible length.

Ultimately if my comments paint the picture that Walsh was excellent and Ed and Dow poor, then they have correctly represented the impact that each had in the centre (imo).

If you disagree and want to challenge that view, I'd be keen to hear the reasoning and respond.

If you just want to tell me I'm biased while offering up nothing of substance in retort, what is your end goal exactly.

 

[Metalcrusher]

We might to change the way we play Crush.
More of a defensive mindset, then run and gun from the backline. Thats if we don't win the centre contest, at the bounce.

This week .... the stats told us we won the centre clearances ... however it failed the eye test to me, which means our centre clearances were rushed/hurried/ineffectual ...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Question has to be asked, if a team directly target ONE defender for countless entries, you would think the coaching panel would react by either ..

a) Getting someone to drop into the hole in front or ..
b) shuffle the deck chairs ...

I put it to you some of the leads that were targeted at plows man ... no one would have stopped "one V one"

Neither happened. Makes you wonder doesn't it ..

Right up there with letting Adams of the chain and taking until HALF TIME for someone (Teague/Line Coach etc) to tag him (Ed Curnow) .......

Yeah it's true some of those entries couldn't be stopped, hence the reason I pointed out the shit defensive pressure from the midfield.

Definitely coaching staff to blame too, but at the same time Plow has to take some accountability too. He needs to use his voice and direct, he needs to keep his feet in the goal square instead of getting pushed over so easily and he needs to be better at marking his opponent so he can't create space and easy leads to run into.