Autopsy Rd23 Buddy 10.2.62 defeats Carlton 8.9.57

[btdg]

All fair points. Our back line is our strongest part of the ground, so my question would be 'did our back line get worse when Jones came in?'
If no, he's younger and more athletic than Rowe and probably a younger version of ASOS but maybe not as level headed. Bigger question is probably can he coexist with Weiters, Marchy and Plow?

I'd argue Jones and Rowe were about the same in terms of impact. Jones is faster, more athletic, and did more 'Wow' things while also getting caught out of position more and giving more the other direction, while Rowe played the system better, but contributed little other than rugged defence. Our backline was probably at its best with ASOS in that role, but he can't stay healthy.

Next year, we might end up just going with Weiters, Marchy and Plow. Macraedie could also offer a real advantage - he's the biggest and most athletic of them, and has ridiculous upside with another pre-season or two. A backline of Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macraedie, Docherty, Williamson has an insane level of talent, and a lot of attacking potential too. Just a matter of whether the young guys are ready, and whether the midfield can provide enough support while they keep learning.

On a Jones-related tangent, earlier in the year I spent a lot of time arguing that he made a huge impact as a forward. Last year we went 6-3 when he was playing, a 1-11 when he wasn't; that was with him as a forward. As a defender he probably 'won' us two games we wouldn't have won otherwise (GWS just fort he surprise factor, Hawthorn with those spectacular saves). For the last two years along I reckon he's worth the pick we gave up for him!

 

[Azul]

Our back line is our strongest part of the ground

Which really isn't saying much. Carlton conceded the sixth most points for the year.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Well,it's been a pretty good season and have enjoyed myself immensely.
Ed and Patty really are the grunt we miss against teams like sydnee.
I look forward to pushing for the 8 next year and beyond.
Anyhoo,another preseason into the kids and hopefully the recruiting staff have a good time at the table!
What time does that stupid fight start?

 

[Aphrodite]

Nothing to do with result. It's the mindset.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Was not the point I was making.

Did you actually read the original post I replied to.

We lost by 81pts, let's not forget that.
Had nothing to do with Army being selected.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Bluella]

Awwww.... Love army.

 

[Arr0w]

Which really isn't saying much. Carlton conceded the sixth most points for the year.

Come on mate, you are more glass half full than that

 

[LanceRomance]

Backline was disorganised yesterday... Not sure I want a backline without Plowman or Marchbank.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Backline was let down by a poor Midfeild. Yet again..

Roll on 2018.

 

[The Great Ian]

Buddy was always going to have a day out given Bolton was ok with leaving him one out with Jones.

Next time we meet that won't be the case.

 

[Azul]

Come on mate, you are more glass half full than that

Not after an 81 point drubbing!

That said Rowe, ASOS, Plow, White, MarchBank didn't play. But still concerned once Docherty, Byrne and Williamson have moved into full time midfield roles, we still need a balance of quality small/medium defenders.

 

[blue healer]

Backline was disorganised yesterday... Not sure I want a backline without Plowman or Marchbank.

Have to say that Byrne going down didn't help.

 

[Wily trout]

Paul Roos was terrible, but this was a Foxtel game.

I always thought he was generally pretty good, but last night he was a Carlton hating flog. How can you describe Buddy as the best and most exciting player in the comp and then almost in the same breath describe Jones as terrible, when playing on him. Surely anyone playing on him last night when in that sort of form would lower their colours. Given he has only been playing this position in the seniors for half a season I thought a little more respect was warranted. Yes we were flogged but the anti Blues sentiment was always there from Roos and Derwayne. Dunstall was pretty good I thought, I feel he keeps his bias in check and usually calls a pretty fair game. Lost a lot of respect for Roos though.

 

[JustaBattler]

Which really isn't saying much. Carlton conceded the sixth most points for the year.

Yeah so what !!! - Bolton plays a team based defensive structure- which means mids are very important to overall effectiveness no midfield pressure no zone....scoresd against Carlton scream lack of midfield more than poor back six- just go and watch a game.

If you have a midfield which concedes the corridor at a ground like Sydney (where the arc literally meets the square with barely a ten meters gap ) - you are done and dusted - because it is a contested possession /clearance hand-off and an easy 30 meter kick to a leading forward and goal every time.

Kreuzer was the only mid actually trying to win a clearance yesterday - and he was also the ruck. TV gives one view and live at the ground another - Carlton midfield were ragdolled after half time - conceded the game 10 minutes in 3rd quarter - it was a disgusting performance to watch - and the less said about some of the so called 'leaders' the better.

I watched the way Carlton mids conceded front position without care to Sydney mids in every contest - it was a disgraceful performance and underlined to me AGAIN that Carlton will not have truly bottomed until Murphy and Gibbs are irrelevant to the Club - an absolutely putrid performance from both. I watched younger blokes start to take half steps by 4th quarter on purpose because that is what the leaders were doing all day.

Now anyone can sugar coat the result and say well it was a dead rubber- but it was NOT a dead rubber in the second quarter when the young kids took it upon themselves to play football - some genuine leadership and will to win from more experienced players was sadly missing.

Levi Casboult may as well not have been playing for all the good he did providing a so called big body up front all he did was stand around like a brainless clod and allow himself to be bodied under every contest and offered nothing. Want to know about VFL types ? - Carlton had a plethora on display yesterday - Kerrdige/Graham/Thomas - provided nothing in terms of better developed bodies - I'm sick of watching Graham fall over at every contest - literally fall over inexplicable.

So what am I saying? You had Jones trying to plug zone gaps with Weitering and bugger all else providing third man up support to cover Buddy Franklin who was literally allowed to prance around into any space at any time - totally unmarked. Jones was left out to hang like a shag on a rock by no midfield pressure what so ever for half a game and no Plowman as third man in.

Sydney did not allow a loose man defense to Carlton yesterday - the ground makes it almost impossible to achieve that, it is that small - and yet our midfield couldn't run both ways in that small congested space that is SCG.

A really bad ending to the year - but at least SOS and Bolton have more ( as if they needed it anyway) knowledge about the current limitations of Carlton's midfield.

 

[Wily trout]

Geez, does everything have to be black and white? This is the Carlton forum, not Collingwood. I think Jones is fine, but he is what he is - athletic, hard at the contest, but a poor reader of the game. When he has support as a defender he can play a role.

When Jones played as a forward, everyone hated him. Now, as a defender, he can't do a thing wrong. My observation is that he's the same player he always was, just in a better role for him, and until last night, with a bit more confidence

Note though, there's very little evidence that our backline got better after Jones came into the team. He's done some incredible things - arguably saved us the game vs Hawthorn With individual efforts, but he's still a very limited player in some ways.

But isn't that the thing with a cohesive and hard working backline group. Some games, like the Hawthorn game, Jones stood tall, other games Ploughman covers, protects and runs off, other games Marchbank intercepting and marking everything and Doc just gets his gazillion possessions sweeping up every attack. So point is in any given game one, two or three or all of our defenders will dominate. Some games they will struggle
I am pretty confident in our defensive line, Jones included, which I have not been able to say for a long time.

 

[Wilson14]

As painful as it was to watch, there were still positives, which has been the case for pretty much every game this year. Yesterday showed how important Plowman is to our structures though, there were many contests you'd usually see him float in and win or at least impact, the bloke gets a lot of shit for some reason but does so much for the team, not that he would have won us the game yesterday but time for a big preseason and another positive year next year.

 

[prisoner777]

Which really isn't saying much. Carlton conceded the sixth most points for the year.

You're right. There has been too much emphasis put on our back line which has been OK but not outstanding relative to the broader competition. While our forward line is developing, recruiting a key forward who can make an early impact in season 2018 would have a number of positive effects including acting as a mentor for Curnow et al. Achieving a higher average front line score per game would also improve morale and belief across the group. After two years of development (and it is definitely there) the team must move up the ladder in 2018.

 

[prisoner777]

As painful as it was to watch, there were still positives, which has been the case for pretty much every game this year. Yesterday showed how important Plowman is to our structures though, there were many contests you'd usually see him float in and win or at least impact, the bloke gets a lot of shit for some reason but does so much for the team, not that he would have won us the game yesterday but time for a big preseason and another positive year next year.

The real positives over the past two seasons cannot be denied. However, a bitterly disappointing end though to season 2017 which will hurt for a long time but hopefully will serve as a driver for further growth as a team.

 

[prisoner777]

Buddy was always going to have a day out given Bolton was ok with leaving him one out with Jones.

Next time we meet that won't be the case.

I hope you're right.

 

[prisoner777]

Was not the point I was making.

Did you actually read the original post I replied to.

We lost by 81pts, let's not forget that.
Had nothing to do with Army being selected.

Some questions do need to be asked about our structure and one on one's yesterday. However, we are certainly not the only team where those sort of questions have to be asked. The "huge" momentum shifts in many games (Blues and non-Blues related) this season begs a material question.

 

[Soapy V]

Backline was disorganised yesterday... Not sure I want a backline without Plowman or Marchbank.

Wouldn't have made much of a difference the way the ball was coming in so easily

 

[prisoner777]

Paul Roos showed his true colours tonight. As one-eyed as you can possibly be. Where are the Carlton identities when we play home games? I want someone on the Seven team telling us how our opponents are embarrassing themselves and playing at VFL level. I know we're a shithouse club right now, but fair dinkum -- should we really be subjected to lowlifes like Roosy telling us how our players are embarrassing? The Seven coverage has really revelled in our pain for the last few years. I'm sick of it.

My view is that Carlton for a long time was seen as a privileged club which had great success over several decades. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in the AFL and we are experiencing the downside of that success - remember only a handful of clubs have experienced great success over a prolonged period. Most fans only dream of the premierships we have won.

 

[prisoner777]

Nothing to do with result. It's the mindset.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree with you.

 

[prisoner777]

While yesterday's second half stings, we were down on key players before the first bounce and game day injuries made things worse, upsetting our game plan and ability to rejig throughout the game.

 

[Mr.X]

Poor way to end the season.

roll on 2018,can only get better I guess