Autopsy Rd23 Buddy 10.2.62 defeats Carlton 8.9.57

[jim b]

So, with a different captain today and Armfield not playing we would have won?

Is that what I said?


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[Gethelred]

Yeah so what !!! - Bolton plays a team based defensive structure- which means mids are very important to overall effectiveness no midfield pressure no zone....scoresd against Carlton scream lack of midfield more than poor back six- just go and watch a game.

If you have a midfield which concedes the corridor at a ground like Sydney (where the arc literally meets the square with barely a ten meters gap ) - you are done and dusted - because it is a contested possession /clearance hand-off and an easy 30 meter kick to a leading forward and goal every time.

Kreuzer was the only mid actually trying to win a clearance yesterday - and he was also the ruck. TV gives one view and live at the ground another - Carlton midfield were ragdolled after half time - conceded the game 10 minutes in 3rd quarter - it was a disgusting performance to watch - and the less said about some of the so called 'leaders' the better.

I watched the way Carlton mids conceded front position without care to Sydney mids in every contest - it was a disgraceful performance and underlined to me AGAIN that Carlton will not have truly bottomed until Murphy and Gibbs are irrelevant to the Club - an absolutely putrid performance from both. I watched younger blokes start to take half steps by 4th quarter on purpose because that is what the leaders were doing all day.

Now anyone can sugar coat the result and say well it was a dead rubber- but it was NOT a dead rubber in the second quarter when the young kids took it upon themselves to play football - some genuine leadership and will to win from more experienced players was sadly missing.

Levi Casboult may as well not have been playing for all the good he did providing a so called big body up front all he did was stand around like a brainless clod and allow himself to be bodied under every contest and offered nothing. Want to know about VFL types ? - Carlton had a plethora on display yesterday - Kerrdige/Graham/Thomas - provided nothing in terms of better developed bodies - I'm sick of watching Graham fall over at every contest - literally fall over inexplicable.

So what am I saying? You had Jones trying to plug zone gaps with Weitering and bugger all else providing third man up support to cover Buddy Franklin who was literally allowed to prance around into any space at any time - totally unmarked. Jones was left out to hang like a shag on a rock by no midfield pressure what so ever for half a game and no Plowman as third man in.

Sydney did not allow a loose man defense to Carlton yesterday - the ground makes it almost impossible to achieve that, it is that small - and yet our midfield couldn't run both ways in that small congested space that is SCG.

A really bad ending to the year - but at least SOS and Bolton have more ( as if they needed it anyway) knowledge about the current limitations of Carlton's midfield.

You make it hard to disagree with you, Jab.

 

[El Topo]

Not after an 81 point drubbing!

That said Rowe, ASOS, Plow, White, MarchBank didn't play. But still concerned once Docherty, Byrne and Williamson have moved into full time midfield roles, we still need a balance of quality small/medium defenders.

Not sure Doc will ever be a full time mid, tbh... and that's OK. He was handy filling gaps in the centre this year but was far more valuable down back with his presence and direction.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Yeah so what !!! - Bolton plays a team based defensive structure- which means mids are very important to overall effectiveness no midfield pressure no zone....scoresd against Carlton scream lack of midfield more than poor back six- just go and watch a game.

If you have a midfield which concedes the corridor at a ground like Sydney (where the arc literally meets the square with barely a ten meters gap ) - you are done and dusted - because it is a contested possession /clearance hand-off and an easy 30 meter kick to a leading forward and goal every time.

Kreuzer was the only mid actually trying to win a clearance yesterday - and he was also the ruck. TV gives one view and live at the ground another - Carlton midfield were ragdolled after half time - conceded the game 10 minutes in 3rd quarter - it was a disgusting performance to watch - and the less said about some of the so called 'leaders' the better.

I watched the way Carlton mids conceded front position without care to Sydney mids in every contest - it was a disgraceful performance and underlined to me AGAIN that Carlton will not have truly bottomed until Murphy and Gibbs are irrelevant to the Club - an absolutely putrid performance from both. I watched younger blokes start to take half steps by 4th quarter on purpose because that is what the leaders were doing all day.

Now anyone can sugar coat the result and say well it was a dead rubber- but it was NOT a dead rubber in the second quarter when the young kids took it upon themselves to play football - some genuine leadership and will to win from more experienced players was sadly missing.

Levi Casboult may as well not have been playing for all the good he did providing a so called big body up front all he did was stand around like a brainless clod and allow himself to be bodied under every contest and offered nothing. Want to know about VFL types ? - Carlton had a plethora on display yesterday - Kerrdige/Graham/Thomas - provided nothing in terms of better developed bodies - I'm sick of watching Graham fall over at every contest - literally fall over inexplicable.

So what am I saying? You had Jones trying to plug zone gaps with Weitering and bugger all else providing third man up support to cover Buddy Franklin who was literally allowed to prance around into any space at any time - totally unmarked. Jones was left out to hang like a shag on a rock by no midfield pressure what so ever for half a game and no Plowman as third man in.

Sydney did not allow a loose man defense to Carlton yesterday - the ground makes it almost impossible to achieve that, it is that small - and yet our midfield couldn't run both ways in that small congested space that is SCG.

A really bad ending to the year - but at least SOS and Bolton have more ( as if they needed it anyway) knowledge about the current limitations of Carlton's midfield.

Anyone want brutal honesty that be it well said . I too am sick of the soft underbelly of the Carlton Football Club showing itself in the last round of the season dead rubber or not . Did someone say 2 wins in the last round since 2002 ? .

 

[ODNBlue]

I'm sort of glad we got smashed yesterday. No way can anyone be getting ahead of themselves now...

 

[mediumsizered]

Backline was disorganised yesterday... Not sure I want a backline without Plowman or Marchbank.

We can manage without one of them, but not both.

As soon as I read that Plowman was out, I had a feeling we were going to be in strife. It was a shame Macreadie had a poor game for the Northern Blues last week as it would have been handy having him up our sleeve as an emergency. Then we could have replaced a tall with a tall.

As much as it has been suggested on a number of occasions this season that we have gone too tall in defence, we have played our best football this season with a taller defence.

Having to start Byrne on Reid was not ideal & then to lose him meant we were stuck with only Jones & Weiters to match up the Sydney talls. Tippett's injury helped us somewhat, but with him off the ground & then returning to play in the ruck, Buddy was left with plenty of space in the Swans F50 & no-one had the size to provide a chop out for Jones or fill the space.

Jones will learn a lot from yesterday's game. No doubt Dale Amos will work with him during the pre-season in understanding the leading/running patterns of a mobile forward like Franklin.

 

[mediumsizered]

Anyone want brutal honesty that be it well said . I too am sick of the soft underbelly of the Carlton Football Club showing itself in the last round of the season dead rubber or not . Did someone say 2 wins in the last round since 2002 ? .

An extremely wise/knowledgeable poster did post this.

 

[Iamcarlton]

An extremely wise/knowledgeable poster did post this.

Thanks apologies couldnt be bothered going back to find said wise one

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Buddy was always going to have a day out given Bolton was ok with leaving him one out with Jones.

Next time we meet that won't be the case.

While we wont get to see how Jones react to getting this towelling up from Buddy until next year, its a bit of a reality check for him, to let him know that it wont always be roses playing as a defender, no matter how well he has gone n the second half of the season. For all that he has done, he still very much needs to improve as a defender. Still a ways to go yet for him.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Yesterday was just a full back's lot. If you play for long enough in the toughest position on the ground a champion key forward will get a hold of you. Even SOS was embarrassed by Lockett and Modra.

It will play an important part in Liam's development as a defender. It will demonstrate what not to do against top forwards. After the mandatory debrief this week he can get out the tape at any time and remind himself of his worst day in the AFL. Pretty good motivation for a developing back man.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Which really isn't saying much. Carlton conceded the sixth most points for the year.

Only 34 more points than Essendon who are in the 8.

 

[Azul]

Only 34 more points than Essendon who are in the 8.

They have a forward line at least.

 

[Wickzki]

Thanks to Buddy. Gave a performance of a lifetime that Army will remember and cherish forever.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

They have a forward line at least.

Not sure how that changes the discussion about our back line though.
If anything, our lack of forward line puts our defenders under the pump more often, with failed inside 50 entries and rebounds coming out. Once our forward line retains the ball more inside 50 and converts them into scores, that same back line should concede less.

 

[__Bobcat__]

I'm sort of glad we got smashed yesterday. No way can anyone be getting ahead of themselves now...

Were on a Rhode to nowhere!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

The body
Buddy ten was due to a team effort
He couldn't have done that without their help

Carlton helped him immensely

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Conspiracy theory (not really, just a bit of fun)...

Did we let Buddy kick 10 so that Kennedy couldn't win the Coleman?

 

[Sector 7G]

Conspiracy theory (not really, just a bit of fun)...

Did we let Buddy kick 10 so that Kennedy couldn't win the Coleman?

I like to think that were were intentionally getting him into good form for his first final against *.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I like to think that were were intentionally getting him into good form for his first final against *.

That works too.

 

[Windhover]

Were on a Rhode to nowhere!

Don't agree Bobcat. Unlike others I could not watch beyond 3/4er time and doubt I will ever seek out a viewing of the last quarter.

In the second quarter we started to get into the match AFTER losing Byrne when Sydney itself suffered injuries to Tippett and Sinclair. The goal to Hayward (his first kick) was a brilliant passage of play goal very much against the run of play at the time. Sure AFL is a team game. But individuals matter.

I was interested to watch Liam Jones play Buddy from in front. I can only assume this was done under coach's instructions since it never stopped during the game (whilst I was watching), Jones never appeared to be instructed to play differently and playing in front has NOT been the Beast's usual method of play. When ASOS played on Buddy he played man on man, so the idea must have crossed the minds of our coach's. They wanted to try something and it didn't work. No biggie. So do not expect Buddy to get such an easy ride next time.

We always knew we would be outgunned in the midfield, missing Cripps and Ed, with Fisher and SPS just kids. Sydney are the form side in the competition and their midfield is their strength. That for a significant period in the second quarter we actually controlled the play (we mucked up pretty badly up front) speaks volumes for the team effort in that period.

Next year I am expecting better seasons from Byrne (largely injured this year), Jones (recently discovered), Pickett (getting match fit) Macreadie, Williamson, SPS, Cuningham, Weitering, Charlie, Fisher, SOJ and McKay (all youngsters with much development left in them and who have already shown enough for me to be happy to see them play regularly next year and beyond). That's 12 players who can be expected to have significantly better years than this year.

It may be that we will lose Gibbs and Caz but, if we gain Kelly we will definitely not lose anything for next year in this year's trade period.

Sure, an 81 point defeat is hard to swallow. But Sydney at home are a good team. A very, very good team. Richmond were lucky to lose to St K by 67 points 7 rounds ago when both were hoping to make the finals. If 7 weeks can make a big difference think what a whole preseason might bring?

We are on the road to somewhere. I couldn't be happier with our direction and our leadership onfield and off-field. For the last 2 years I have not cared at all about wins and losses. From 2018 onwards I am going to care. We have had 2 very solid years of development. I don't say I expect us to play finals in 2018 but I will be very disappointed if we are not competing for a finals spot.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Yesterday was just a full back's lot. If you play for long enough in the toughest position on the ground a champion key forward will get a hold of you. Even SOS was embarrassed by Lockett and Modra.

It will play an important part in Liam's development as a defender. It will demonstrate what not to do against top forwards. After the mandatory debrief this week he can get out the tape at any time and remind himself of his worst day in the AFL. Pretty good motivation for a developing back man.

Would be interesting to go back and see the difference in the way ASOS played Buddy, I have only seen the last quarter but it looked like Buddy was closer to goal this week with much more space. Roo's kept mentioning how our loose defender didn't really impact Buddy being a target or influence in the contest when it was obvious The Swans were going to him every time.

He also mentioned about starting positions and felt playing Buddy from behind might of been a better option so he couldn't get out the back which had merit but most teams play in front of because he doesn't take too many contested marks or jumps on or over defenders. There were certainly breakdowns no matter what the strategy was supposed to be.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Late to the party but was at the game and believe Jones was left to deal with a rampant Buddy on his own intentionally by Bolts and his crew. Great lesson for Jones. I'm a bit miffed he consistently tried the same tactics in one on one battles. When the team hasn't given up and we can orchestrate some of our second man up situations a bit more often buddy doesn't get close to 10.

Should go to ASOS and get him to give a 'how to play on buddy' clinic.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Don't agree Bobcat. Unlike others I could not watch beyond 3/4er time and doubt I will ever seek out a viewing of the last quarter.

In the second quarter we started to get into the match AFTER losing Byrne when Sydney itself suffered injuries to Tippett and Sinclair. The goal to Hayward (his first kick) was a brilliant passage of play goal very much against the run of play at the time. Sure AFL is a team game. But individuals matter.

I was interested to watch Liam Jones play Buddy from in front. I can only assume this was done under coach's instructions since it never stopped during the game (whilst I was watching), Jones never appeared to be instructed to play differently and playing in front has NOT been the Beast's usual method of play. When ASOS played on Buddy he played man on man, so the idea must have crossed the minds of our coach's. They wanted to try something and it didn't work. No biggie. So do not expect Buddy to get such an easy ride next time.

We always knew we would be outgunned in the midfield, missing Cripps and Ed, with Fisher and SPS just kids. Sydney are the form side in the competition and their midfield is their strength. That for a significant period in the second quarter we actually controlled the play (we mucked up pretty badly up front) speaks volumes for the team effort in that period.

Next year I am expecting better seasons from Byrne (largely injured this year), Jones (recently discovered), Pickett (getting match fit) Macreadie, Williamson, SPS, Cuningham, Weitering, Charlie, Fisher, SOJ and McKay (all youngsters with much development left in them and who have already shown enough for me to be happy to see them play regularly next year and beyond). That's 12 players who can be expected to have significantly better years than this year.

It may be that we will lose Gibbs and Caz but, if we gain Kelly we will definitely not lose anything for next year in this year's trade period.

Sure, an 81 point defeat is hard to swallow. But Sydney at home are a good team. A very, very good team. Richmond were lucky to lose to St K by 67 points 7 rounds ago when both were hoping to make the finals. If 7 weeks can make a big difference think what a whole preseason might bring?

We are on the road to somewhere. I couldn't be happier with our direction and our leadership onfield and off-field. For the last 2 years I have not cared at all about wins and losses. From 2018 onwards I am going to care. We have had 2 very solid years of development. I don't say I expect us to play finals in 2018 but I will be very disappointed if we are not competing for a finals spot.

Totally agree Windhover,
Was more of a personal joke with ODN.
Should have used one ot those face things!!

 

[Aphrodite]