Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Gethelred]

The Voice flamed out when the Albanese government willfully abandoned the majority of the population via allowing energy prices to run rampant, by allowing unchecked mass immigration during a housing crisis, and by recruiting big business and elites to patronize us with silly cliches and selfies.

There are other threads in which to discuss the housing crisis and immigration. This is not the first time you have attempted to deflect discussion in here in this way.

Do it again, and you will see yourself threadbanned.

 

[winty]

Love it.

 

[swingdog]

Thought this was a good summary of where we are:

Why is the campaign for an Indigenous voice struggling? It’s not just the media | Margaret Simons

Speaking to voters I have not found hostility but a lack of engagement. In this laidback nation, many Australians resent the toxicity of the referendum debate

www.theguardian.com

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Thought this was a good summary of where we are:

Why is the campaign for an Indigenous voice struggling? It’s not just the media | Margaret Simons

Speaking to voters I have not found hostility but a lack of engagement. In this laidback nation, many Australians resent the toxicity of the referendum debate

www.theguardian.com

I have my 18yo with me this weekend. He doesn't pay any attention to politics at all except for laughing at stupid things the American's do.
I asked him about the referendum, and he was a bit reluctant to talk , seemed to be worried i might get stuck into him and he's a bit non-confrontational.
Finally he just said, " i can't see that it would do any harm".
I agreed with him, i said that i couldn't see a reason to block it.
Apparently his Grandmother ( my ex mother in law ) had told him " they just want it so they can get more seats in parliment ".

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I don't know why people like him who are obsessed with US politics and Trump in particular just don't pull
the pin on Australia and move there.

They can't meet the requirements for a Green Card. Plus they'd have to actually do something rather than just be outraged.

 

[Power Raid]

A question for all the No voters - do you agree with this sentiment, and if not, do you want to be aligned with it? From today's No rally in Melbourne:

This reminds me of the embarrassment of Sam Newman's street talk, where one would focus on the saddest elements of society to try and make themselves look smart by targeting the pathetic (such as this case) or the vulnerable

There are far better reasons to vote "yes" or "no" and these should be debated.

Lowering the referendum to celebrities, jingles (farnham) and looking towards extremists doesn't do justice for indigenous people's journey in closing the gap

 

[winty]

Well, this is awkward...

 

[Roby]

Hitler was an animal rights activist.

Do all animal rights activists want to be associated with that?

Even though Hitler was vegeterian, I find this extremely hard to believe; how could he be for animal rights, when he referred to Jews as vermin or rodents in Mein Kampf, as something that needed to be eradicated.

Also, there were lots of scientific experiments using animals under Nazi regime, despite laws they introduced regarding protection of animals.

Love it.

Jacinta and Dutton, how did they manage finish high school?

 

[Roby]

Thought this was a good summary of where we are:

Why is the campaign for an Indigenous voice struggling? It’s not just the media | Margaret Simons

Speaking to voters I have not found hostility but a lack of engagement. In this laidback nation, many Australians resent the toxicity of the referendum debate

www.theguardian.com

So the article says that the problem with yes campaign is it's holier than art thou stance, that it argues it stands on the path of righteousness.

So what do you actually do on the No campaign?

 

[Gough]

This reminds me of the embarrassment of Sam Newman's street talk, where one would focus on the saddest elements of society to try and make themselves look smart by targeting the pathetic (such as this case) or the vulnerable

There are far better reasons to vote "yes" or "no" and these should be debated.

Lowering the referendum to celebrities, jingles (farnham) and looking towards extremists doesn't do justice for indigenous people's journey in closing the gap

They're Nazis mate, there's no both sidesing there.

 

[HaroLad]

how could he be for animal rights, when he referred to Jews as vermin or rodents in Mein Kampf, as something that needed to be eradicated.

Because he didn't like Jews but he liked animals

 

[Roby]

Because he didn't like Jews but he liked animals

What an idiotic response to what I said.

 

[HollowNight]

Excellent video on this topic. It’s based on a speech by Jason Clare.

 

[tandino]

Kamahl is now voting no.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Guy has an uninformed opinion, that’s ok.

Guy does some research and changes opinion based on new information, must be a moron.

“Yeah, because No is an informed decision. The first No was an uninformed decision. And the Yes was a semi-informed decision. And now 100 percent, I am well and truly committed to saying No.”

“If you do the Voice this way, it becomes a racist issue, you’re putting a whole race of people separate to the rest of the country.”

still a moron?

12ft

 

[Blue Arrow]

I have changed my mind, I of course make all my political decisions based on MC Hammers opinion.
Was Shaq busy? What does Vanilla Ice think?
The Yes side is bordering on pathetic.

'Australia it's time': MC Hammer weighs in on the Voice to Parliament

The US rapper has weighed in on Australia's upcoming Voice to Parliament referendum, saying it is time for the country to "repair the breach".

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I have changed my mind, I of course make all my political decisions based on MC Hammers opinion.
Was Shaq busy? What does Vanilla Ice think?
The Yes side is bordering on pathetic.

'Australia it's time': MC Hammer weighs in on the Voice to Parliament

The US rapper has weighed in on Australia's upcoming Voice to Parliament referendum, saying it is time for the country to "repair the breach".

www.sbs.com.au

Yet you turn a blind eye to the Nazis on your side?

 

[campbell]

Kamahl is now voting no.

He needs a capacity ssessment, flipping like a trout outta water.

 

[Roby]

Kamahl is now voting no.

Just watched him. He sounds like you and the person that liked your post.

Made no sense. He sounded like he was 5 years old.

 

[Rob]

Kamahl is now voting no.

Maybe a good idea to stop using people with no connection to the issue as promotion for whatever side you want to win?

 

[tandino]

He sounds like you.

If only.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Kamahl is now voting no.

Oh FFS!

 

[nobbyiscool]

It's becoming increasingly wild to me how many people either don't know any Indigenous people, or don't respect them enough to listen to them/ask their opinion.

For me? The Voice doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect any non-Indigenous people. Reducing inequality/Closing the Gap is about elevating Indigenous people, not sabotaging the rest of us.

I really feel that if people asked the Indigenous people in their lives why this is important, it wouldn't be in doubt. That's all I want potential no-voters to do, is speak to some Indigenous people.

But as I say, I'm starting to realise how many people don't know or don't respect Indigenous people.

I had some concerns from the "progressive no" perspective - the answer is that voting against Indigenous rights in the hope of better is a really stupid example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Especially in Australia when the debate is likely to take 20 years + to come back around again.

 

[the_interloper]

This happened in my suburb, looking forward the comment shitfight on our community page!

 

[HirdsTheWord]

It's becoming increasingly wild to me how many people either don't know any Indigenous people, or don't respect them enough to listen to them/ask their opinion.

For me? The Voice doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect any non-Indigenous people. Reducing inequality/Closing the Gap is about elevating Indigenous people, not sabotaging the rest of us.

I really feel that if people asked the Indigenous people in their lives why this is important, it wouldn't be in doubt. That's all I want potential no-voters to do, is speak to some Indigenous people.

But as I say, I'm starting to realise how many people don't know or don't respect Indigenous people.

I had some concerns from the "progressive no" perspective - the answer is that voting against Indigenous rights in the hope of better is a really stupid example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Especially in Australia when the debate is likely to take 20 years + to come back around again.

I largely agree but it seems people need a serious reality check of what the general community care about. They dont sit there and unpack it with nuances like you are. A huge portion of Australia are actually quite stupid.

I dont agree with it but the reality is that most people vote selfishly and when they dont gain from it they vote with spite.

There will be an utterly huge amount of people, like you said who dont care about this vote, who are suffering a cost-of-living crisis, rates keep going up and they are hurting in their own pockets, all they see is their Prime Minister pushing a "yes" vote, instead of addressing cost of living.

Which way do you think they are going to vote?

I really think the timing of this referendum is terrible for the yes campaign.