Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Osho]

Fell swoop?

 

[Off The Couch]

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Now, let's work on a real solution.

These communities need infrastructure and education for starters, but the education needs to be fun, useful and interesting.

The government needs to go out to these remote communities and get to the bottom of the issues, rather than just virtue signal and pander for votes.

At the end of the day though, you can lead a horse to water..

That's been done before, what part of that are your not getting? Getting out to the communities hasn't worked. Hence the path towards a voice to find out exactly what can be done and should be done. This issue won't be resolved because there coming at it from the wrong angle.

 

[Off The Couch]

 

[Cap]

Found that interesting

So people could be confused by NT saying no, but it appears the indigenous vote was high

 

[Gough]

Which would explain this.

AEC responds after Jacinta Nampijinpa Price questions ‘conduct’ in Indigenous communities that voted yes

Price claimed there was ‘manipulation’ in remote communities but electoral commission says ‘ability to campaign at any polling place … was the same for everyone’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Footy Is The Win]

That's been done before, what part of that are your not getting? Getting out to the communities hasn't worked. Hence the path towards a voice to find out exactly what can be done and should be done. This issue won't be resolved because there coming at it from the wrong angle.

What's your solution?

 

[Gibbke]

It’s not really up to No to provide evidence though. Quite simply, the Yes campaign fundamentally failed to convince voters that this was likely to accomplish anything.

As time goes by and the temperature cools I’ve no doubt this will be the prevailing analysis.

I'll argue against that. As time goes by and the temperature cools, the analysis will lose the current Sky News arrogance and the emotionally cringy left appeals to humanity, and they will see a tactical battle where a simple question was buried amongst a campaign of deflection and disinformation. I'm trying to sound detached when I write that, and yes, I'm ****ing annoyed with my country today, but once the smoke clears, there will be many who will do a bit more reading, research and general listening and come to the conclusion that the Voice was not the impeding doom it was made out to be - I'll even predict one of those people will be you...!

It was absolutely up to both sides to provide strong cases, because they were compulsorily telling Australians to decide on other people's futures. This is where your statement, respectfully, will go in a different direction to what you're saying...

 

[LewisHall]

I'm on the Cassowary Coast, also FNQ, and that isn't the impression I had at all. I'm a high school teacher, and the community I see, long term local indigenous, are quite strongly in favour of reform.

Not trying to diss...I'd be very interested to know which town you're in and why you say there's hostility from local aboriginals...?

I heard in the Cairns area there was mixed thoughts among the aboriginal groups

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

What's your solution?

Not doing the same thing over and over and expecting the same result for a start. Mundine advocated for a cashless debit card which has failed dismally. Why wasn't he interrogated about any of that? He seems to think he has the answers but he really doesn't but is happy to feed his own agenda as a voice for the oppressed. If he had a decent alternative solution I would be happy to jump onboard.

 

[Roobs321]

Yesterday was the most ashamed I've been in my lived experience to be Australian. It was the most straightforward vote I'll ever live through, should've only taken the average voter a few seconds to see that 'yes' (or abstain/donkey) was the only credible option, 'no' was nakedly groundless and bankrupt, and to vote 'no' makes an unflattering portrait to say the least, individually and collectively. We're now officially susceptible towards any conceivable rot in this post-truth age, no better than anywhere really, we've truly lost our way and the future doesn't bode well. We've yet again let down our First Nations people most profoundly. We're a pathetic country, and will have to own it. I doubt we'll see a referendum again anytime soon after this dismaying campaign and dire result, in that sense it feels like a win for the Monarchy as well.

 

[Chief]

So the people casting doubt on polling of indigenous support were just playing on ignorance.

Any real analysis before the vote said that at worst it was about 70% in favour. But we can't trust people who know what they are talking about. That would not do.

 

[Gibbke]

I heard in the Cairns area there was mixed thoughts among the aboriginal groups.

Treaty v Voice. The notion of division is a very overrated part of the breakdown into Yes and No aboriginal thought. Price and Mundine are a tiny minority, and they're echoing their party line like good little LNP employees - the majority of aborigines want a treaty, and the means to get it puts the community into two camps. If they saw the Voice as a worthwhile method it was a yes, and if they saw it as toothless they said no.

 

[davywap]

I'd be floored if anyone who voted No had a tertiary degree

Some would. Not all racists are stupid, some are just campaigners.

 

[mcnulty]

They made plenty of claims. No evidence. AKA flooding the zone with s**t. People discussing in good faith were run ragged with the need to debunk the bullshit.

That's the LNP way these days.

Lies. Misinformation. Disinformation.

It's an inescapable conclusion that this works. We see the type of people taking advantage of this human fallibility and credulity. We see them.

Nah. The zone was flooded with shit in the SSM plebiscite too. People ignored it.

 

[Cmarsh]

How do you quote a approximate 70% yes vote from Aboriginal voters in remote NT and Katters seat and then conclude that the Aboriginal yes vote was 80% across the nation?

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I heard in the Cairns area there was mixed thoughts among the aboriginal groups

So the Cairns area which is much more urbanised than what Gibke is referring to. I visited Cairns recently and there's a sprinkling of indigenous people amongst the population but they were all working. Least the ones that I saw. Highly doubt the population further north are in that position. That's why the NT vote was the way it was I believe.

 

[MrKK]

Something something Canberra bubble

 

[Footy Is The Win]

Half the problem seems lefties telling indigenous folk that white people hate them, leading indigenous folk to resent white people.

These communities need so much help but they have lost trust.

 

[LewisHall]

So the Cairns area which is much more urbanised than what Gibke is referring to. I visited Cairns recently and there's a sprinkling of indigenous people amongst the population but they were all working. Least the ones that I saw. Highly doubt the population further north are in that position. That's why the NT vote was the way it was I believe.

Heaps of aboriginals, more than a sprinkling

and not all working

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Half the problem seems lefties telling indigenous folk that white people hate them, leading indigenous folk to resent white people.

These communities need so much help but they have lost trust.

So the other half of the problem is right wingers?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

That kind of thing has already been going on for a very long time.

Then they fix it up, the infrastructure is mostly in place.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Which would explain this.

AEC responds after Jacinta Nampijinpa Price questions ‘conduct’ in Indigenous communities that voted yes

Price claimed there was ‘manipulation’ in remote communities but electoral commission says ‘ability to campaign at any polling place … was the same for everyone’

www.theguardian.com

Yep she was the one doing the manipulating.

 

[Footy Is The Win]

Not doing the same thing over and over and expecting the same result for a start. Mundine advocated for a cashless debit card which has failed dismally. Why wasn't he interrogated about any of that? He seems to think he has the answers but he really doesn't but is happy to feed his own agenda as a voice for the oppressed. If he had a decent alternative solution I would be happy to jump onboard.

So, you have nothing other than Mundine (an indigenous folk) said this and that so

 

[dumb]

Garbage on both counts.

Firstly there was plenty of information available, they sent a pamphlet explaining it to every household in the country from what I can gather.

Secondly it is absolutely the responsibility of each person to make sure they are informed on a subject when voting. If you think it's not your job to inform yourself no wonder this country is as stuffed as it is.

there's been some interesting discussion in this thread about the responsibility of voters.

a voter's foremost responsibility is to appear at the booth to vote, over and above educating themselves on the topic. the education bit is a 'nice to have', not a legislated necessity.
if we're distrustful of the general public and think of them as idiots, then starting from the position of placing the responsibility of informing themselves in voters hands is clearly a misstep. perhaps it's better to engage them on whatever their dung-heap is with very short words.

i share your distrust of people and their motivations for not searching this stuff out (and am guilty of it, too). i've been wondering what the public might do if all the pamphlet mother****ers, how to voters, tv ads etc were banished from the political landscape. and individuals instead had to seek out (were directed to) a more central source, like a political party website, to inform themselves.
would we be more educated? maybe. we'd certainly be happier. we'd be less prone to misinformation, less money spent, less trees exctincted. and anyone with even the slightest motivation would seek out that central source instead of being subject to whatever infiltration marketing dollars bought. it's probably more a fantasy of mine rather than a realistic idea.
to qualify, i'm not saying this because of the landscape being flooded with opinions i don't like, i still wish the sides i voted for got their shit out of my way.