AFL Autopsy Rnd 1: Done by the Hawkes

[ant555]

I thought Trucks presser was good. He of course emphasised the positives (which are easy to forget after the second half) but still had honest constructive things to say. I was impressed by how he kept his cool. It didnt reek of bs and he seems on top of his sh*t.
But im still watchng the rest of this season as if it were practice games to stay sane.

Agree. He did not have to slam the players as he had already identified the players where dirty on themselves for going away from what they wanted to do in the third quarter.

 

[BrunoV]

I didn't watch the game live and hadn't really formed any expectations going into the game so there's no real emotion in it for me.

There were a lot of disappointing things, including the loss, from some individuals. Jones' goal kicking (he deserved some goals to hang his hat on what was otherwise a sensational debut), some mental lapses from the likes of Laverde and Redman (which detracted from games that were otherwise good and maybe laying the foundation for really good seasons - which is not to say they wont have good seasons), Caldwell's kicking got really sloppy and Wright tired and couldn't keep going late in the game.

The were also some concerning things, primarily a complete lack of run (or speed or whatever it is that Richmond smalls deliver in spades) from Snelling, Tippa and Smith (Smith is shot). I have real concerns about trying to implement the system without the players who have the running ability to pull it off. This is almost certainly why Ham is playing and seems to spend a lot of his time at half forward despite not really delivering anything in the position. The cupboard is pretty bear in term of realistic options in defence though I think we have the opportunity to get creative with the use of Reid in the next few weeks (once he has some match conditioning under his belt).

But, at the end of the day, sloppy ball use killed us. Turnovers which exposed a very inexperienced defensive combination, butchering delivery into the forward line and then some pretty bad goal kicking (you'd think an 11 point turn around would be just as likely to happen if the game was played in the same way next week).

I can't get any of the numbers for the 3rd quarter but that 4 very quick goals in a row aside, the rest of the quarter was played at a very similar pace to quarters 1 and 4. We kicked 1.5 (possibly an OOF) to 8.0. There's your result.

I think the game was otherwise reasonably good quality. Much better, for example, than Joe's return last year. I can't put my finger on it, except to say that it has nothing to do with ball movement, but something seems more sustainable about the way we are setting up.

Zach Package has said it somewhere, if you're not expecting a bit of a rough ride this year (particularly early) you're in for a world of hurt. Focus on what the individuals are doing, look at the way segments of the game come together, etc, and don't work yourself into the hope that Hawthorn, of all sides, is going to be terrible.

The performances of Cox and Jones were really solid. Laverde looks like defence is the spot from which he can build a career. Redman looks to have his groove back (minus some gas which will return over the next few weeks). Wright was solid. Caldwell showed some signs (for a 20 yo). Hind was really good. Draper got better again, etc...

 

[sameolds33]

Then he must have out coached Clarkson in the second quarter then. I would not say out coached in the second half. The last quarter was an arm wrestle and the fact is we missed some easy shots. The third quarter was the issue. They got on top in the middle and we did not respond well.

If you look at the lead up to a couple of the Hawks goals in the last quarter they had given up on the play and pretty much stood around the middle and got gifted a lucky rebound that left them in the clear. We clearly chocked under pressure but they did get some dead set luck when things where going their way.

Rutten did out coach Clarkson in the second Q!

 

[sameolds33]

Not saying Rutten didn't get outcoached, more that the players wouldn't have implemented the plan correctly so theres things to work on and improve. Basically that what we saw is not the finished product.

Which is what Rutten said in his presser - which fits with our observations.

 

[Bjchan13]

Which is what Rutten said in his presser - which fits with our observations.

Whos observations? I was originally replying to fin ice smuggler who was questioning the gameplan/tactics. Im more questioning the players implementation of game plan/tactics.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

Has anyone mentioned the effect the rotation cap had on the game last night? I reckon it's a reason we looked cooked in the end. With all the talk of subs and man on the mark, it seems the interchange hasn't been discussed much.

 

[sameolds33]

Whos observations? I was originally replying to fin ice smuggler who was questioning the gameplan/tactics. Im more questioning the players implementation of game plan/tactics.

the observations on the game that many - inlcuding you and me - have made in this thread that includes player performance, on field leadership, coaching and luck. All the elements that make up a game. In the second Q we saw how our game plan can work, best Q of footy we've played for over a season. In the second half we saw what happens when those other elements don't go our way.

 

[Bjchan13]

the observations on the game that many - inlcuding you and me - have made in this thread that includes player performance, on field leadership, coaching and luck. All the elements that make up a game. In the second Q we saw how our game plan can work, best Q of footy we've played for over a season. In the second half we saw what happens when those other elements don't go our way.

Yep i agree, there was some confusion in why you quoted my post that was in reply to fin ice smuggler but all good, we are on the same page.

 

[Bombermania]

When you are up by 40 points and you lose it then it isn't the coach that is the problem but the on-field leadership. We should have expected that third quarter comeback but the senior guys needed to make sure the comeback was halted but again the senior guys didn't seem to react.

As others have said who was on Mitchell in the third quarter because he had far too much space and there didn't seem to be any effect to slow the game down by closing down space.

 

[ant555]

I didn't watch the game live and hadn't really formed any expectations going into the game so there's no real emotion in it for me.

There were a lot of disappointing things, including the loss, from some individuals. Jones' goal kicking (he deserved some goals to hang his hat on what was otherwise a sensational debut), some mental lapses from the likes of Laverde and Redman (which detracted from games that were otherwise good and maybe laying the foundation for really good seasons - which is not to say they wont have good seasons), Caldwell's kicking got really sloppy and Wright tired and couldn't keep going late in the game.

The were also some concerning things, primarily a complete lack of run (or speed or whatever it is that Richmond smalls deliver in spades) from Snelling, Tippa and Smith (Smith is shot). I have real concerns about trying to implement the system without the players who have the running ability to pull it off. This is almost certainly why Ham is playing and seems to spend a lot of his time at half forward despite not really delivering anything in the position. The cupboard is pretty bear in term of realistic options in defence though I think we have the opportunity to get creative with the use of Reid in the next few weeks (once he has some match conditioning under his belt).

But, at the end of the day, sloppy ball use killed us. Turnovers which exposed a very inexperienced defensive combination, butchering delivery into the forward line and then some pretty bad goal kicking (you'd think an 11 point turn around would be just as likely to happen if the game was played in the same way next week).

I can't get any of the numbers for the 3rd quarter but that 4 very quick goals in a row aside, the rest of the quarter was played at a very similar pace to quarters 1 and 4. We kicked 1.5 (possibly an OOF) to 8.0. There's your result.

I think the game was otherwise reasonably good quality. Much better, for example, than Joe's return last year. I can't put my finger on it, except to say that it has nothing to do with ball movement, but something seems more sustainable about the way we are setting up.

Zach Package has said it somewhere, if you're not expecting a bit of a rough ride this year (particularly early) you're in for a world of hurt. Focus on what the individuals are doing, look at the way segments of the game come together, etc, and don't work yourself into the hope that Hawthorn, of all sides, is going to be terrible.

The performances of Cox and Jones were really solid. Laverde looks like defence is the spot from which he can build a career. Redman looks to have his groove back (minus some gas which will return over the next few weeks). Wright was solid. Caldwell showed some signs (for a 20 yo). Hind was really good. Draper got better again, etc...

Bold sums it up.

Just on Cox and Jones. Both played well but both get exposed through their inexperience which you would expect. Both had their struggles with defending and getting caught out of position through their lack of experience. The Hawks exploited Cox on the wing a bit. Not a knock on them as they need the game time and experience but it did cause us some issues.
Jones really has to sort out his kicking as his set shots against Geelong where just as bad so that is two in a row. But that is really a captain obvious comment from me.

 

[yodellinhank]

Fitzroy have struggled to post a win since 1996...

Saints took a couple of seasons to get a win, and when they did it was an appeal of the initial result.

 

[Ati Tude]

Losses like that can be the difference between making the 8 or not, or making top 4 etc. But given where we are at, it will be the difference between having pick 3 or 4 or something like that. The defence is being asked a lot of given their size and experience. Hooker will have to play back next week. Which probably needs to happen once Stringer comes back anyway. The thing that frustrated me the most was the kicks to inside 50. We had 3 talls there and too often there was an uncontested Hawks mark. Not even a contest. And then there is the goal kicking.

Is going to be a tough year but looking forward to getting games into young players and the development of others that need to be part of our core going forward. A couple of good moments from Cox, Jones was good and will get better, Draper gives us a quality ruck for years to come and have to remember he has played only 8 or 9 games. Hind was good. Caldwell good. There is not much to get excited about with Cahill, Ham or Snelling that makes me want to hold Perkins back.

 

[boncer34]

Fitzroy have struggled to post a win since 1996...

Won a flag in 2018. Maybe we should move to the VAFA.

 

[coastalpipeline]

Agree. He did not have to slam the players as he had already identified the players where dirty on themselves for going away from what they wanted to do in the third quarter.

Golly jeepers! That's going to get me through the week looking forward to losing to Port.

 

[coastalpipeline]

mate you tell me but I think it's certain players that refuse to defend like they should when we don't have the ball or the game needs to be slowed down. we can score with the best of them but when it comes to defending it is just a rabble. I am so ******* frustrated like so many other Bomber supporters..!!!

I would believe the difference is Swans youngsters took the game on and won, kept themselves, within the hunt when things got tough, stood up and got counted for the win. Discipline takes the game to the next level, discipline gets the job done.
That's exactly why Bombers supporters are nervous as hell having a team 40 points up with a half of footy to go, we lack discipline.

 

[ant555]

Golly jeepers! That's going to get me through the week looking forward to losing to Port.

Good for you.

 

[CBombers17]

I would believe the difference is Swans youngsters took the game on and won, kept themselves, within the hunt when things got tough, stood up and got counted for the win. Discipline takes the game to the next level, discipline gets the job done.
That's exactly why Bombers supporters are nervous as hell having a team 40 points up with a half of footy to go, we lack discipline.

The swans leapfrogging us with their rebuild is as predictable as it gets.

 

[coastalpipeline]

The swans leapfrogging us in their rebuild is as predictable as it gets.

That's like saying we will beat Lions in Brissie in a few weeks time

 

[coastalpipeline]

Good for you.

Well if it ain't a slamming from Truck, why not Port?

 

[citizen-erased]

The swans leapfrogging us with their rebuild is as predictable as it gets.

Gulden and Campbell gifts help
Us turning down what would have been mcdonald and god knows what to cost ourselves hollands in the process...this does not

 

[ant555]

Well if it ain't a slamming from Truck, why not Port?

So the coach has to slam the players in the presser so you can be happy ?
I am pretty sure the players know they ****ed it up. I am sure that will get highlighted to them.
Sorry but I do not need the coach doing a Malthouse to make me feel a bit better about a game we threw away.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Gulden and Campbell gifts help
Us turning down what would have been mcdonald and god knows what to cost ourselves hollands in the process...this does not

On top of Mills/Heeney/Blakey entering their prime.

 

[ant555]

The swans leapfrogging us with their rebuild is as predictable as it gets.

Wow. One round of footy and we have predictable.
Apart from that they actually started their rebuild 2 seasons ago so you would expect they would be in front of us in that department given that until the end of last season we where still dicking around trying to do something on the back of our saga players.

 

[citizen-erased]

On top of Mills/Heeney/Blakey entering their prime.

blakey i'm cool with. Father Son is an ok rule by me.
And it denied Norf.

i don't mind academies either, but all clubs should have them.
proper ones too.

 

[ant555]

blakey i'm cool with. Father Son is an ok rule by me.
And it denied Norf.

i don't mind academies either, but all clubs should have them.
proper ones too.

Agree.
Not like we did not get a free kick with Brand and Eyre even though they are not 10.
At the end of the day I have no issues with the NSW or QLD academies . They put in a decent amount of work to develop the players from non traditional back grounds and Heeney would not have even looked at AFL if it was not for the Swans junior work. The system in place now makes sure they have to pay a decent premium to draft the good ones.
Jamara to the Dogs under next gen was a bigger rort than anything that has happened in the Swans academy .