AFL Toast RND 21: We Gave Freo The Old Heave Ho!

[ghostdog]

I like that we won and got up off the canvass to do it . There are still a lot of the same issues but that was a win we would not have pulled off at this stage last year. And yes we probably have cost ourselves a place in the 8 over the last 4 weeks because of some mistakes at selection but also because we are simply a side trying to find an identity.

Amway we all know the bad.
Menzie is a battler who tries hard but does not seem to have the polish.
McKay looks like he has had enough after having a tough year taking a lot of big hits.
Cox can not play KP.
Laverde . What can I say.
Would be good if we had a decent half back flank so Martin can play wing.

What I liked.

I said last week Stringer was wasting too much energy trying to get something going in the middle and it was effecting what he could do forward. This week no center bounce . 4 goals 10 tackles including 6 inside 50.

Gresham just played forward pocket and kicked goals.

Parish found a bit of form a lot quicker than previously.

Draper took a few marks.

Bryan was decent in the first half but the big blokes did wear him down. Looking at him beside Darcy you can see how much more development he needs.

Caddy just keeps doing smart stuff with the footy in his hands (other than Hollywood shots at goal)

Roberts showed enough . Probably goes harder than his body is ready for right now .

Langford looked a bit better.

Redman showed some signs of life again.

I reckon we'll see Gresh and Kako rotate forward and high half forward.

I also reckon Brad got Redders right last night with Martin pushing forward more. Redman seemed to have gotten his licence to run, attack and distribute back.

 

[astrowizzle]

I like that we won and got up off the canvass to do it . There are still a lot of the same issues but that was a win we would not have pulled off at this stage last year. And yes we probably have cost ourselves a place in the 8 over the last 4 weeks because of some mistakes at selection but also because we are simply a side trying to find an identity.

Amway we all know the bad.
Menzie is a battler who tries hard but does not seem to have the polish.
McKay looks like he has had enough after having a tough year taking a lot of big hits.
Cox can not play KP.
Laverde . What can I say.
Would be good if we had a decent half back flank so Martin can play wing.

What I liked.

I said last week Stringer was wasting too much energy trying to get something going in the middle and it was effecting what he could do forward. This week no center bounce . 4 goals 10 tackles including 6 inside 50.

Gresham just played forward pocket and kicked goals.

Parish found a bit of form a lot quicker than previously.

Draper took a few marks.

Bryan was decent in the first half but the big blokes did wear him down. Looking at him beside Darcy you can see how much more development he needs.

Caddy just keeps doing smart stuff with the footy in his hands (other than Hollywood shots at goal)

Roberts showed enough . Probably goes harder than his body is ready for right now .

Langford looked a bit better.

Redman showed some signs of life again.

If Bryan could bulk up to Ryder level that would do me. Strong and agile and mobile as all hell

 

[Kong]

I'll answer with a question.

What's the benefit of helping an opposition player up?

So anything that isn't beneficial is stupid?

 

[Zach Package]

I'll answer with a question.

What's the benefit of helping an opposition player up?

I was disappointed he didn’t ‘American History Cox’ him while he was down

 

[Mercurial89]

So anything that isn't beneficial is stupid?

Ok, it is silly.

Is that better choice of words? I assume thats the issue you have? Stupid is too strong a word?

A reminder I'm not talking about this individual act, but the general act of helping opposition players off the ground in general, (aside from where I said if you flatten a bloke helping him up and checking on him).

 

[ant555]

Surely Martin forward of center is what needs to happen all the time, he has this trick he does, that trick is... he kicks goals, he's been kicking goals since his intra club trial games, he hasn't stopped doing it, just play him in spots where his trick can be useful.

Kicking goals isn't flexible enough, need to see if he can allow goals also

He should be wing half forward in the future but the fact that we are simply thin at half back as far as attacking players go I do not blame them for trying to get something going .

 

[ant555]

I reckon we'll see Gresh and Kako rotate forward and high half forward.

I also reckon Brad got Redders right last night with Martin pushing forward more. Redman seemed to have gotten his licence to run, attack and distribute back.

I think Redman may have got a bit of a rocket.

 

[Mercurial89]

He should be wing half forward in the future but the fact that we are simply thin at half back as far as attacking players go I do not blame them for trying to get something going .

Even at the cost of Redman's form and damage up front?

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I think Redman may have got a bit of a rocket.

Yeah I heard Lanford interviewed by 3AW and he said a couple of guys were singled out during review of saints game and that they really stood up this week. He obviously didn't name them, despite much prodding from RoCo and Tony Shaw, but my mind went straight to redman.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Even at the cost of Redman's form and damage up front?

Why can't redman also learn to play more accountable footy? This is my biggest issue with some of the 25-30 group, they seem to want to play their own game and not take on any additional responsibilities or make sacrifices for the team. They are now the senior players and need to set better examples.

I'm much more impressed with martin/durham/caldwells leadership and willingness to take on new tasks than these guys, hopefully their bad habits don't rub off on the younger guys.

 

[ant555]

Even at the cost of Redman's form and damage up front?

Is it going to cost us a spot in the GF ?
Maybe it ends up costing us finals but do we win some early games with him just playing forward ?
It is robbing one spot to fix another spot and hopefully they can find another solution next year but personally I think his form has been pretty good at half back most of the year despite the games where he has taken serious risks that did not pay off.
I would be outraged if I thought we were a genuine top 6 side that had a decent shot at making a PF but I do not think we are and I think it makes him a better player going forward as he now does a but more defensive running when he plays up the ground .
We are a side trying to go somewhere. There will be players played in different spots. Even if we kept Mass he would have to be playing wing so Martin would likely have been at half back .

 

[Yoda_]

Well we played with effort unlike the past few weeks, we actually played a bit of pace so that's something.

I guess it's good we won and people can get all excited about still being alive to make finals. Archie and Bryan get a win at senior level.

But nothing really changed-

• Stringer plays his out of the box game,
• Redman was poor until Martin was told to play more forward but we won so more reward for playing a player out of position and then throwing the late swing master move,
• We again got up for a top level opponent as we normally do when the expectation is we lose,
• Once the pressure of expectation was off they relaxed and were rewarded with a win,
• The overall game pressure wasn't great even our own pressure wasn't that high,
• Individual efforts from leaders were poor,
• Skill level still abysmal,

So we get the nice sugar hit, proud of our boys, finals are still achievable rush as fans.
Whilst also harming us long term as no lessons were learned, in fact conditional effort was rewarded, we hurt our draft position and players that have let us down and should be having their inability to perform play out in plain view for the last month of the season get to hide in the shadows of a 'miraculous' win.

People don’t like facts. It’s all sugar and rainbows when we win


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ant555]

People don’t like facts. It’s all sugar and rainbows when we win


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah well we all do not want to live like a bunch of sad sacks . The reality is we are not top 6 . The reality is it will take more personal changes over the next 2 or 3 years minimum . So when we win simply enjoy the moment . So yes another year of disappointment and probably more ahead but hey there is more to life that you can control .
Was great leaving the ground after that win even though I know we could easily fall back in a hole next week.

 

[Kong]

Ok, it is silly.

Is that better choice of words? I assume thats the issue you have? Stupid is too strong a word?

A reminder I'm not talking about this individual act, but the general act of helping opposition players off the ground in general, (aside from where I said if you flatten a bloke helping him up and checking on him).

Nah it's got nothing to do with the language; I would have asked the same question even if you said "I don't like when a player helps an opponent up".

What is your issue with it?

 

[ant555]

Nah it's got nothing to do with the language; I would have asked the same question even if you said "I don't like when a player helps an opponent up".

What is your issue with it?

It is too nice. Nice is not good. Not that I care either way

 

[Mercurial89]

Nah it's got nothing to do with the language; I would have asked the same question even if you said "I don't like when a player helps an opponent up".

What is your issue with it?

I'm fairly consistent with these types of things, I believe details and small aspects of the game matter.
Its why I'm so big on kicking skills, tackling, shepherds, blocking. Because it all adds up.
I also believe mindset/mental side of things plays a massive part in sport in general.

There is no benefit to picking up an opponent, there is no reward, there is nothing to be gained.
Get your mind in the game, get positioned at a stoppage or find your man while they are picking themselves up. You do your job, and you focus on that, delay them finding their spot, finding their man, communicating.
Now the part people will just scoff at, but the mental side of things, having to pick yourself up, again, and again, and again, it's a grind. As an opponent both mentally and any physical energy expenditure you can extract as a player, you do so.

It doesn't make you mock tough guy, I'm not saying stand over them flexing and I'm not saying what Derm did the demonstration of either of the fake hand up.

This is elite sport, you are there to win, any advantage you can get, you take.


Just so we are being clear. It's also the exact opposite of what I'd teach my son if he decides to play sport. Because at that level being a good person and a good sport is more important then winning, there are other things that are important.


So it's a combination of the setting, and the fact there is nothing to be gained by doing it is what makes it silly/stupid.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Toxic Masculinity wins flags. I know y'all going to say "... But Darcy Moore" the bloke is still a prick. I doubt he even gives way when performing a U-Turn, too self righteous.

Probably right. Though he would do a great job of explaining what his u-turn may mean to other motorists, acknowledging those who have in the past performed u-turns, and giving a shout out those who can't afford a car.

 

[JT_the_Man]

What are we

 

[Kong]

I'm fairly consistent with these types of things, I believe details and small aspects of the game matter.
Its why I'm so big on kicking skills, tackling, shepherds, blocking. Because it all adds up.
I also believe mindset/mental side of things plays a massive part in sport in general.

There is no benefit to picking up an opponent, there is no reward, there is nothing to be gained.
Get your mind in the game, get positioned at a stoppage or find your man while they are picking themselves up. You do your job, and you focus on that, delay them finding their spot, finding their man, communicating.
Now the part people will just scoff at, but the mental side of things, having to pick yourself up, again, and again, and again, it's a grind. As an opponent both mentally and any physical energy expenditure you can extract as a player, you do so.

It doesn't make you mock tough guy, I'm not saying stand over them flexing and I'm not saying what Derm did the demonstration of either of the fake hand up.

This is elite sport, you are there to win, any advantage you can get, you take.


Just so we are being clear. It's also the exact opposite of what I'd teach my son if he decides to play sport. Because at that level being a good person and a good sport is more important then winning, there are other things that are important.


So it's a combination of the setting, and the fact there is nothing to be gained by doing it is what makes it silly/stupid.

You'd not like my thoughts on how rude players can be to the club's runners, then

 

[Kong]

Finally saw the game.

Good of Ken Hinkley to help out Fremantle

 

[Rick Ross]

I'll answer with a question.

What's the benefit of helping an opposition player up?

Ok, so there is a study that is admittedly a bit dated and also from the College Football (USA)… it’s a study of the physiological impacts of gamesmanship.

Counter intuitively, giving a hand to lift up an opposition player provides a physiological boost the lifter and a physiological “void” (technical term in the study) to the felled player. In layman’s terms - it’s a power play with the guy who gets helped up left feeling like a weakling.

Was by Dermott B. Isaashol (in 1988).

 

[Beerfish]

Ok, so there is a study that is admittedly a bit dated and also from the College Football (USA)… it’s a study of the physiological impacts of gamesmanship.

Counter intuitively, giving a hand to lift up an opposition player provides a physiological boost the lifter and a physiological “void” (technical term in the study) to the felled player. In layman’s terms - it’s a power play with the guy who gets helped up left feeling like a weakling.

Was by Dermott B. Isaashol (in 1988).

That's very interesting.

 

[Beerfish]

I'm curious where Mercurial89 stands on shaking hands before the game. Shake or nah get ****ed campaigner?

Just to be clear I'm talking afl not auskick.

 

[yodellinhank]

I'm curious where Mercurial89 stands on shaking hands before the game. Shake or nah get ****ed campaigner?

Just to be clear I'm talking afl not auskick.

Before the game? Crush their hands. Crush them good. After a game, fake them out and slick the sides of your hair back instead.

 

[Howard Moon]