Round 1 vs Blues Expectations

[Tigerforlife78]

A WIN, END OF STORY.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Sorry man, I have to disagree on this.

If the difference between Carlton beating us and not beating us actually came down purely and simply to if Chris Judd is fit, then we're having a laugh really.

Carlton will struggle this season and probably win 8 games or less, we are two rungs above them at the moment in terms of list quality and experience.

This match should basically be the equivalent of Carlton Vs. Richmond in Round 1 2009/2010, just with the roles reversed.

If we play below expectations, and they play out of their skins, we may only win by 3 or 4 goals, but otherwise it should be a similar result to those previous Round 1 matches in 2009/2010, just going our way instead.

Why will Carlton struggle this year I be interested to know the reasons?

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Rance Maric and Delideo didnt play for us either so whats your point
If you guys are still pinning your hopes on Judd being the player he was and your saviour then that there is Carlton's problem straight away.
As ive said earlier. Carlton will be competitive in most games but if we are serious where we want to be then we must win this by 5-6 goals

Deledio played didn't he , had a great first half from memory but struggled in the second half wasn't seem after that till the Geelong game because of Achilles soreness

 

[no orange peeler]

Deledio played didn't he , had a great first half from memory but struggled in the second half wasn't seem after that till the Geelong game because of Achilles soreness

Your right he did. Point stays the same

 

[theflea]

Rance Maric and Delideo didnt play for us either so whats your point
If you guys are still pinning your hopes on Judd being the player he was and your saviour then that there is Carlton's problem straight away.
As ive said earlier. Carlton will be competitive in most games but if we are serious where we want to be then we must win this by 5-6 goals

Lids played but was useless really after a kick on his ankle/Achilles.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Your right he did. Point stays the same

It's all good because according to Hardwick Rance missed 7 weeks. No wonder he's never practised as an accountant .

 

[THE_GUN]

Lol very intersting, question

Please give me major goal kickers for each side, spec Tigers
Very interested to see response as I believe Tigers should start as favourites but hard to see big margin as Tigers haven't done this in an extended period of time

Carlton are in for a rude shock this year

Your players that have always given us trouble over the past 3-4 years are no longer there and carlton has an ageing list that really isnt going to trouble alot of teams and your young players have not really lived upto expectations.

Carltons starting line up could have the following players Jones,Tutt,Jacksh,Whiley,BB,cripps,graham, which 30% of your team that either hasnt played a game or played in lower league's where they will find it extremely difficult to adapt for atleast 1 year if ever - they are a very unknown atm
Liam Jones & Tutt are pretty much just average players from footscray which have never really shown much apart from minor glimpses

Im expecting a large win for the Tigers of 10 goals +

 

[gillo94]

Carlton are in for a rude shock this year

Your players that have always given us trouble over the past 3-4 years are no longer there and carlton has an ageing list that really isnt going to trouble alot of teams and your young players have not really lived upto expectations.

Carltons starting line up could have the following players Jones,Tutt,Jacksh,Whiley,BB,cripps,graham, which 30% of your team that either hasnt played a game or played in lower league's where they will find it extremely difficult to adapt for atleast 1 year if ever - they are a very unknown atm
Liam Jones & Tutt are pretty much just average players from footscray which have never really shown much apart from minor glimpses

Im expecting a large win for the Tigers of 10 goals +

Jones for me 50/50, he needs big tank and if can't get one during pre-season then I'd rather go with 2 Talls or throw Walker forward than take Jones

Jaksch won't be risked, period. Rest hard to say but think Cripps and Boekhorst best chance

Matchups I really really want to see for our young players would be
Boekhorst vs Dustin Martin
Cripps vs Miles

 

[THE_GUN]

Jones for me 50/50, he needs big tank and if can't get one during pre-season then I'd rather go with 2 Talls or throw Walker forward than take Jones

Jaksch won't be risked, period. Rest hard to say but think Cripps and Boekhorst best chance

Matchups I really really want to see for our young players would be
Boekhorst vs Dustin Martin
Cripps vs Miles

Your really asking alot from your 2 boys that really have only played junior football and have 0 runs on the board to come up against Martin & Miles
If these matchups did eventuate Malthouse would be shot and Carlton will get punished

 

[SumTingWong]

Sorry man, I have to disagree on this.

If the difference between Carlton beating us and not beating us actually came down purely and simply to if Chris Judd is fit, then we're having a laugh really.

Carlton will struggle this season and probably win 8 games or less, we are two rungs above them at the moment in terms of list quality and experience.

This match should basically be the equivalent of Carlton Vs. Richmond in Round 1 2009/2010, just with the roles reversed.

If we play below expectations, and they play out of their skins, we may only win by 3 or 4 goals, but otherwise it should be a similar result to those previous Round 1 matches in 2009/2010, just going our way instead.

The first 13 games of last year we were having a laugh. To truly believe after the year we had last year that we are a lock against any team is laughable. No wonder everyone hangs shit on our supporters.
We were 2 rungs above Carlton going into the final in 2013 and half way through the actual game until C Judd decided he had enough. And yes, one man can make such a difference. That's why he is regarded as one of the all time greats.

 

[SumTingWong]

Judd didn't play against Tigers last year, still very close

I was looking at an interesting stat, both teams last year averaged roughly 12 goals per game. I'll be very keen to see exactly what kind of setups both teams go with

Vickery, Griffiths, Jack & Maric
Hendo, Casboult, Jones & Kreuzer
I think will come down to who can impact the scoreboard harder out of these 2 sets of talls

Dustin & Menzel productivity on either end will be one to also watch, I think Morris might match up on Menzel and Walker on Dustin

Don't get hung up on stats too much when it comes down to an individual game. Go back and compare the stats between our two teams before the 2013 final. They meant jack s***.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Your really asking alot from your 2 boys that really have only played junior football and have 0 runs on the board to come up against Martin & Miles
If these matchups did eventuate Malthouse would be shot and Carlton will get punished

Malthouse turned Everitte into one of the best taggers in the league last year that also gets his own ball and hurts oppositions . Him and Miles would be close to recruits of the year

 

[THE_GUN]

Malthouse turned Everitte into one of the best taggers in the league last year that also gets his own ball and hurts oppositions . Him and Miles would be close to recruits of the year

i think you might be over rating everitte , whilst he was ok hardly miles standard but he did a couple of tagging jobs that were pretty good
I rate him about Grigg standard tbh

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

i think you might be over rating everitte , whilst he was ok hardly miles standard but he did a couple of tagging jobs that were pretty good
I rate him about Grigg standard tbh

Hes a bit better than Grigg . Was pretty much leading their best and Fairest before injuring his knee.

 

[THE_GUN]

Hes a bit better than Grigg . Was pretty much leading their best and Fairest before injuring his knee.

Really not a massive achievment

 

[Ned_Flanders]

for all the optimism of Carlton supporters on this forum and against Bitchmond, curious indicator. Membership is usually an indicator of supporters optimism in the team for the year to come. Current numbers reveal what Blues supporters really think 2016 will unveal

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Really not a massive achievment

Gee your a hard task master in a two horse race . Last year we blew games against the dogs and Melbourne and we have to play a team with 22 fit players in round one that has a really good midfield and got quite settled in the last half of the year .

 

[THE_GUN]

Gee your a hard task master in a two horse race . Last year we blew games against the dogs and Melbourne and we have to play a team with 22 fit players in round one that has a really good midfield and got quite settled in the last half of the year .

Gee Rusty im sure your taking the P155 with this post

Which Cartoon hacker has gotten into your account mate

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Gee Rusty im sure your taking the P155 with this post

Which Cartoon hacker has gotten into your account mate

No one mate I just saw them play good footy at the end of the season with half their players sent off for surgery. They lost to Geelong who were pushing for top 4 by a goal and had the Hawks at 3 qtr time. Up here in Queensland we can't go to see the tigers every weekend so we watch Friday night Saturday night and Sunday footy regardless of who is playing. Have a look at the thread " How would you line is up on this " and you'll see an approximate team Carlton will field in round one if all fit and you'll see they aren't the push overs everyone thinks they are . Are the stinking tanking pieces of shit ? Of course they are but Malthouse will have them pretty well settled by round one I think .

 

[HARKER]

Gee Rusty im sure your taking the P155 with this post

Which Cartoon hacker has gotten into your account mate

Well, there are facts and there are, of course, unknowns.

Firstly the facts on some of the players from last year:
Henderson, Judd, Carrazzo, Kreuzer, Thomas, Docherty had nil or next to no pre-season whilst Walker played injured all year, until the pin was pulled.
Walker is working his way back after a knee op but all the other guys haven't missed a beat through the pre-season.............yet.
Menzel, Sheehan, (yes Sheehan) Buckley, Yarran, Cripps and Graham are now primed

Carlton won't be worse off for losing Robinson, Garlett and Lucas based on output last year but of course Waite may hurt.....Will Jones fill the void??????

The unknown:
It's not so much for player a or player b to stand out but for the unit to be cohesive......all indicators are in the green...........the proof?..........we'll see.

 

[ReaperX]

Why will Carlton struggle this year I be interested to know the reasons?

As others have said in this thread, Carlton have lost many of their established core players in the past few seasons, and last year, even with guys like Waite, Robinson, etc around, they only managed 7.5 wins.

Whilst I don't base my judgement of their fortunes this year purely on last year, there's nothing to suggest that Carlton's list is any better than it was. Actually, there's a solid argument to suggest that their list is inferior to 2014's, at least in terms of actual output expected for 2015.

They'll have some natural improvement from some youngsters, of course, but their list is a rebuilding list, and whilst they still have a pretty decent midfield, that doesn't cover their lack of KPD and KPF stocks, and the depth in those areas for them is basically non-existent at the moment.

Malthouse is still a great coach, and he may keep them from completely bottoming out, but it really wouldn't surprise me if Carlton were a bottom 4 team this year. Although I do still rate them as slightly ahead of St. Kilda, Melbourne, and the Dogs, I think GWS will go past them this year, as will Brisbane.

The first 13 games of last year we were having a laugh. To truly believe after the year we had last year that we are a lock against any team is laughable. No wonder everyone hangs shit on our supporters.
We were 2 rungs above Carlton going into the final in 2013 and half way through the actual game until C Judd decided he had enough. And yes, one man can make such a difference. That's why he is regarded as one of the all time greats.

We're not a lock against anybody, but neither is Hawthorn a lock against anybody either. Anything can happen, it's footy.

Last year we beat GWS by 114 points, and a week later they nearly knocked off Hawthorn ffs.

We can only base predictions on what should most likely happen, and what should most likely happen in Round 1, 2015, is that Richmond should beat Carlton by 30-40 points, or possibly more. The reason? Because on paper, Richmond's list is superior to Carlton's in every area of the park in 2015.

Does that mean I'm saying we're going to be 1st in the comp, and they'll be 18th in the comp, come seasons end? No. What it means is, when comparing the two individual lists of Richmond and Carlton, Richmond have a list that is simply better and more experienced across the park, and therefore should win.

What happened in 2013, or even in 2014, is irrelevant to the discussion of this prediction. Sure, you can use it to make the argument that we have struggled with pressure in the past, but the context of the match in the 2013 EF is different to the context of Round 1, 2015. Saying that "well we were two rungs above Carlton in 2013 but still lost" isn't really a valid argument for the here and now.

The way to properly assess and make a prediction on a match is to look at the here and now, and not form judgments based on what occurred 2 years ago in a final.

We are better than Carlton by a fair way, pure and simple. As are many teams.

 

[ReaperX]

If as supporters we're going into this match expecting a loss, then we aren't serious about this season, and might as well not even bother turning up tbh.

As for the players though, well I would expect them to be going in fully aware that we need to play our own way, and not coming in with any arrogance or sense of entitlement.

The playing group should NEVER be going in and taking Carlton (or any team for that matter) lightly, they need to approach every match as if it is against Hawthorn at full strength, and play accordingly.

I believe this mental aspect was a key factor in the poor start to 2014, after a very successful 2013 H&A season some of our group clearly just expected success to "happen" without the hard work, thus the poor training standards, etc.

I also believe that, after the 2014 start, our group is now aware of what happens when they don't apply themselves, and that we've learned our lesson from this and will play some good footy from the start of 2015 and moving forward.

Is anything I am saying here unreasonable?

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

As others have said in this thread, Carlton have lost many of their established core players in the past few seasons, and last year, even with guys like Waite, Robinson, etc around, they only managed 7.5 wins.

Whilst I don't base my judgement of their fortunes this year purely on last year, there's nothing to suggest that Carlton's list is any better than it was. Actually, there's a solid argument to suggest that their list is inferior to 2014's, at least in terms of actual output expected for 2015.

They'll have some natural improvement from some youngsters, of course, but their list is a rebuilding list, and whilst they still have a pretty decent midfield, that doesn't cover their lack of KPD and KPF stocks, and the depth in those areas for them is basically non-existent at the moment.

Malthouse is still a great coach, and he may keep them from completely bottoming out, but it really wouldn't surprise me if Carlton were a bottom 4 team this year. Although I do still rate them as slightly ahead of St. Kilda, Melbourne, and the Dogs, I think GWS will go past them this year, as will Brisbane.



We're not a lock against anybody, but neither is Hawthorn a lock against anybody either. Anything can happen, it's footy.

Last year we beat GWS by 114 points, and a week later they nearly knocked off Hawthorn ffs.

We can only base predictions on what should most likely happen, and what should most likely happen in Round 1, 2015, is that Richmond should beat Carlton by 30-40 points, or possibly more. The reason? Because on paper, Richmond's list is superior to Carlton's in every area of the park in 2015.

Does that mean I'm saying we're going to be 1st in the comp, and they'll be 18th in the comp, come seasons end? No. What it means is, when comparing the two individual lists of Richmond and Carlton, Richmond have a list that is simply better and more experienced across the park, and therefore should win.

What happened in 2013, or even in 2014, is irrelevant to the discussion of this prediction. Sure, you can use it to make the argument that we have struggled with pressure in the past, but the context of the match in the 2013 EF is different to the context of Round 1, 2015. Saying that "well we were two rungs above Carlton in 2013 but still lost" isn't really a valid argument for the here and now.

The way to properly assess and make a prediction on a match is to look at the here and now, and not form judgments based on what occurred 2 years ago in a final.

We are better than Carlton by a fair way, pure and simple. As are many teams.

Can you give me an example as to how you would think they'd line up in round 1 barring injury . I'm pretty sure Mick said the other day that they've got a healthy squad so that should make it easier for you ?

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

If as supporters we're going into this match expecting a loss, then we aren't serious about this season, and might as well not even bother turning up tbh.

As for the players though, well I would expect them to be going in fully aware that we need to play our own way, and not coming in with any arrogance or sense of entitlement.

The playing group should NEVER be going in and taking Carlton (or any team for that matter) lightly, they need to approach every match as if it is against Hawthorn at full strength, and play accordingly.

I believe this mental aspect was a key factor in the poor start to 2014, after a very successful 2013 H&A season some of our group clearly just expected success to "happen" without the hard work, thus the poor training standards, etc.

I also believe that, after the 2014 start, our group is now aware of what happens when they don't apply themselves, and that we've learned our lesson from this and will play some good footy from the start of 2015 and moving forward.

Is anything I am saying here unreasonable?

What's the rammafications for the playing group slackening off like that and who's responsibility was it to nip it in the bud before things turned so bad?

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Well, there are facts and there are, of course, unknowns.

Firstly the facts on some of the players from last year:
Henderson, Judd, Carrazzo, Kreuzer, Thomas, Docherty had nil or next to no pre-season whilst Walker played injured all year, until the pin was pulled.
Walker is working his way back after a knee op but all the other guys haven't missed a beat through the pre-season.............yet.
Menzel, Sheehan, (yes Sheehan) Buckley, Yarran, Cripps and Graham are now primed

Carlton won't be worse off for losing Robinson, Garlett and Lucas based on output last year but of course Waite may hurt.....Will Jones fill the void??????

The unknown:
It's not so much for player a or player b to stand out but for the unit to be cohesive......all indicators are in the green...........the proof?..........we'll see.

I agree , Carlton won't be worse off for losing Gartlett , Robbo and Lucas. They'll actually be better off without them. Talented dead shits are still deadshits.