Autopsy Round 14, 2024 : Hawks skin Tigers

[Rowie6]

Again, he has neither ducked nor dropped at the knees. You can't pay it because he lowered his body slightly, how can you ever expect the ump to get it right in that case?

I don't like any frees paid against Hawthorn, but yes, I'd be fine with the validity of this one being paid against us.

Take the Rose coloured glasses off guys!
It should have been play on!
I love the Wiz but he has to be careful as the umpires will turn if he makes this a habit!


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[CHUBBSS]

The wiz is so small you can’t tackle him head on haha it’s going to drive people mad and it’s great

 

[marklar]

Just frickin ' deal with it. We had a decade and a half of Selwood "going lower and harder than the tackler" and OMFG he got a free kick. We're absolutely due for something back in our boy's way.

Watson is a short-arse and is always going to be 50-50 on getting taken high, this one wasn't Selwood level milking. The high contact over the shoulder was there and every Richmond player knew it.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Just frickin ' deal with it. We had a decade and a half of Selwood "going lower and harder than the tackler" and OMFG he got a free kick. We're absolutely due for something back in our boy's way.

Watson is a short-arse and is always going to be 50-50 on getting taken high, this one wasn't Selwood level milking. The high contact over the shoulder was there and every Richmond player knew it.

In another galaxy to Selwood.

Who was always 'clever' for milking a free. Somehow it's shameful when anyone else gets one the same way. Even someone around 15cm (?) or so shorter than him.

 

[PenAndPaper]

The biggest thing for mine is if the player actually calls for the free or looks for it without continuing to play.

People in here saying Moore is bad for it, don't understand that he continues to play, he is never actually looking for the free. He is looking to evade the tackle but he will continue to play if he gets hot high which is very different to a lot of Ginni and Selwood instances.

 

[Sixpence]

Take the Rose coloured glasses off guys!
It should have been play on!
I love the Wiz but he has to be careful as the umpires will turn if he makes this a habit!

As I said in the post you quoted, which you clearly didn't bother to actually read, he has neither ducked nor dropped at the knees. He was also taken high before he lifted his arm, he started crouched and got hit while crouched and hasn't moved from his spot so wasn't driving. What part of that is play on?

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Here endeth the lesson...

One of finest roles Connery ever played, IMO. Love that movie. Even Costner's customary woodenness as an actor was essential to making Ness believable as an incorruptible cop (treasury agent, being pedantic) in the time of endemic corruption.

 

[Turly]

I know I said I'd stop posting on this but the raising of the arm is an absolute red herring here that I never once mentioned. I don't have an issue with players doing that, it's a natural thing to do if someone is trying to lock you up in a tackle, you're trying to free your arm to dispose of the ball.

My point here is that Watson's first instinct - again, instinct - even before collecting the ball was to look for Vlastuin, lower himself and draw the free kick. He even positioned the ball under his other arm in order to better drive himself into it. The raising of the arm was a little after effect to make sure the umpire 100% saw it.

If you want to see what a player can do in half a second instead of intentionally drawing a tackle, just watch what Day did in the middle when confronted by Dusty. He was in a position where he could have easily lowered himself from an already lowered position to draw a high free kick from Martin but he didn't, he did something better and dance stepped away. That's despite Day being on the move and needing to completely stop his forward momentum to do it.

View attachment 2022457

It’s a completely different scenario though.

Day wasn’t tucked up against the boundary line with 2 tiges coming at him nor was he isolated. The Wiz was essentially stuck with nowhere to go.

 

[fairdinks]

Love your takes, but reckon you're off the absolute deep end on this as are others.
For a start, it's being argued here that's ALL that Watson attempted.
Rubbish.
As if anyone here knows exactly what's in the kids mind and what he's trying to do.

First, he hangs the ball out with his left hand to try and sell candy. That fails to buckle the Richmond player's legs, but Watson has mere milli seconds to recognize that after he returns to drive right.
So he's not just collected the ball and attempted nothing but driving a head high tackle.

Yes, reckon he knows at that point he's getting an attempt at tackle.
You know what he doesn't know?
Whether that Tiger's player will wrap up successfully, or perhaps get his tackling arms driven off by stiff hipping through the tackle, and lastly, most importantly.....
Watto MIGHT get the opportunity if the tackle is sufficiently weak to then offload a handpass through the attempted tackler and onto a teammate.
You know, like Newk does or attempts to do at least half a dozen times a game.
If Jai is surrounded closely enough, he looks to drive through some slight amount of space and burst his body enough through that gap to give him the opportunity to handball away.
He's incredibly successful at it.

Finally, I'd just say, why the living **** should any player make himself MORE tackle-able than absolutely necessary?
The idea that the ball winner has some ridiculous owing to the game that he should not try and evade in ANY manner possible to be successfully tackled is preposterous.
If that means getting 6 inches off the ground, doing a balletic pirouette, attempting a flying wallaby, whatever the hell they want to do, is exactly, exactly what they should have the option of doing.

It should be completely incumbent on the tackler to find a way that is legal to tackle, and if he can't he can choose to corral until the opportunity is better or another teammate in better position does tackle.
To suggest one should 'manfully' stand up straight and give the tackler a legal portion of your body to tackle is nonsense.

I know that is not the current thrust of thinking in AFL rules, but it's absolutely mine.

By contorting or doing other acts to make yourself harder to tackle, you're also limiting your options to dispose of the ball successfully and creating 'prior opportunity', so again there's a risk to such action if someone correctly tackles you.

Definitely my last post on this.

This....
Players just need to adapt and be cleverer how they go about tackling smaller players. Particularly players that go hard at the ground ball as Watson, Ginny, Moore do and many successful small forwards have in years gone by.

If the arm is over the shoulders, it's a free kick IMO.

Sure, it can be frustrating, but adapt, the same as front on contact has made tackling players adapt.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

i hate it when other players do it and love that watson will piss of a country full of oppo fans over the next decade for it.

being unashamedly biased is fun

100%, it’s like when people would say that Sicily is a dickhead.

Yeah, but he’s our dickhead.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

The wiz is so small you can’t tackle him head on haha it’s going to drive people mad and it’s great

They’ll have to get on their knees first to tackle him correctly. He really doesn’t need to draw a free kick it will happen naturally. It’s whether the umpires want to pay it or not. The AFL will bring in a rule at seasons end known as the Nick Watson rule. Players 1.7m and under. No head high frees.


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[badgrill]

The biggest thing for mine is if the player actually calls for the free or looks for it without continuing to play.

People in here saying Moore is bad for it, don't understand that he continues to play, he is never actually looking for the free. He is looking to evade the tackle but he will continue to play if he gets hot high which is very different to a lot of Ginni and Selwood instances.

100% agree with this, except I think Ginni is starting to do more of the "continue to play" bit now, particularly if it's in the middle part of the ground (which I guess makes sense as then his main goal - pun intended - is to set up a team mate for a goal)

 

[matey]

I heard a whisper that the Wizard Watson is related to Gandalf. Has amazing powers as soon as he reads the play before anyone else ….. is about to get tackled he waves his wand and puts a spell on himself that moves his hips up his body to the base of his neck. It happens so quick us mere mortals don’t see it. I’m ok with the Wiz’s special powers.

 

[Rowie6]

The biggest thing for mine is if the player actually calls for the free or looks for it without continuing to play.

People in here saying Moore is bad for it, don't understand that he continues to play, he is never actually looking for the free. He is looking to evade the tackle but he will continue to play if he gets hot high which is very different to a lot of Ginni and Selwood instances.

Moore,Ginnivan and The Wizard all play for the head high free kick in front of goal!
Even Jai Newcomb did it once the weekend before which surprised me!
It just shows how hard it is for 4 umpires to umpire this with all the different options on here?
But it’s interesting I cannot recall any of our smaller defenders playing for head high free’s!
Seriously umpires just need to put the whistle away and problem solved!


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[DogDaySonny]

As I said in the post you quoted, which you clearly didn't bother to actually read, he has neither ducked nor dropped at the knees. He was also taken high before he lifted his arm, he started crouched and got hit while crouched and hasn't moved from his spot so wasn't driving. What part of that is play on?

The part where everyone yells “Ball!!!”


The AFL is so in need of a credible, steady hand at the footy operations tiller it isn’t funny. Someone who understands the game intimately, commands respect from both players and administrators, and dwarfs the media nitwits’ credibility. Were I the AFL CEO (I can’t even remember that joker’s name), I would cut every back office exec position in the building (before they get fired for sleeping with employees or king hitting at the local footy anyway) to pay Nathan Buckley whatever was needed for him to take over Football Operations.

 

[Rowie6]

As I said in the post you quoted, which you clearly didn't bother to actually read, he has neither ducked nor dropped at the knees. He was also taken high before he lifted his arm, he started crouched and got hit while crouched and hasn't moved from his spot so wasn't driving. What part of that is play on?

That is your opinion which I am happy for you to have!
Mine though is he went with his head towards the tackle and was not pumping his legs to break the tackle like Moore does and that is why Dylan does not get the scrutiny that Ginnivan does and The Wiz will if he keeps doing it! But Ginni does seem to be trying not to do this to the extent he did at Collingwood?
Personally I never enjoyed any player that play’s for easy kicks and I would prefer if they earn them while playing in the spirit that earns respect( Matthew Lloyd)!
But as I said this is just my opinion and they are all Hawthorn player and I will back them in as they play for our great club!



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[Middle Pocket]

Moore,Ginnivan and The Wizard all play for the head high free kick in front of goal!
Even Jai Newcomb did it once the weekend before which surprised me!
It just shows how hard it is for 4 umpires to umpire this with all the different options on here?
But it’s interesting I cannot recall any of our smaller defenders playing for head high free’s!
Seriously umpires just need to put the whistle away and problem solved!


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Seriously umpires just need to put the whistle away and problem solved!

???? Then watch some serious head injuries occur.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Everyone whines about the high tackle free kicks we are drawing and trying to compare that to how Selwood played, just remember, we don't grease our arms up to the point where they may be the most slippery substance known to man, just to get tackles to ride up for free kicks.

Our guys are not exploiting this like Selwood used to do, it is up to the tackler to take responsibility to make sure the tackle doesn't go high. I feel a lot of tacklers are happy to chance the high tackle free kick knowing that any motion a player does that can be conceived as contributing to it can allow them to get away with it and are getting lazy as a result.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Moore,Ginnivan and The Wizard all play for the head high free kick in front of goal!
Even Jai Newcomb did it once the weekend before which surprised me!
It just shows how hard it is for 4 umpires to umpire this with all the different options on here?
But it’s interesting I cannot recall any of our smaller defenders playing for head high free’s!
Seriously umpires just need to put the whistle away and problem solved!


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Moore does not though, he continues to play. There is a big difference between playing for frees and stopping to be awarded them, to getting hit high while continuing to play the game as if no free was paid but getting it anyway.

 

[Turtles all the way down]

There has to be some advantage for being a midget on a football field.

He's hard to tackle. He's going to get frees.

We had a family rule that no one was allowed to play as Odd Job in Goldeneye for the same reason.

 

[CHUBBSS]

They’ll have to get on their knees first to tackle him correctly. He really doesn’t need to draw a free kick it will happen naturally. It’s whether the umpires want to pay it or not. The AFL will bring in a rule at seasons end known as the Nick Watson rule. Players 1.7m and under. No head high frees.


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I wouldn’t put it past the afl…

The wiz at full sprint running and tucking of his body is probably under a meter tall, how the **** can you tackle him front on

 

[Rowie6]

Seriously umpires just need to put the whistle away and problem solved!

???? Then watch some serious head injuries occur.

Well don’t lead with your head! Simple!


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[Rowie6]

Moore does not though, he continues to play. There is a big difference between playing for frees and stopping to be awarded them, to getting hit high while continuing to play the game as if no free was paid but getting it anyway.

So did Selwood he would try and fight through the tackle but the umpires where not onto it back when he and Poppy did it!


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[PenAndPaper]

So did Selwood he would try and fight through the tackle but the umpires where not onto it back when he and Poppy did it!


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Selwood did sometimes but he had a hell of a lot of times where he went limp playing for it.

 

[Roddy]

People still bangin’ on and on and on about high tackles? Isn’t there more important things to discuss on this board?