Autopsy Round 15, 2019: Hawks kick themselves out of it against the Eagles

[tige19]

We had a guy called David Rath that was a bio mechanics expert among other things and I don't think we ever replaced him. Rath was responsible for the goal kicking techniques of most of our four time premiership forwards.
My gripe is that while we applaud Cegs for his work as a resting ruckman playing forward, he should in the true scheme of things be at best our third marking option as a forward. Our forward setup is not what it should be. If the blueprint or gold standard was Budd, Rough and Hale as go to tall options then Hale was the third tall bailout option as Cegs would be if he was playing back in the day. Fast forward to yesterday we mostly had a resting ruck as the focal marking forward with the second tall being a tall pressure athlete in Nash. No wonder guys like Breust who is playing less attacking more defensive forward than in the past and Gunston are easier to lockdown on.
Failure to have the right structural players in place have had such an impact on the way our forward line functions. Much maligned Shoey straightened us up at a time when it was he, Rough and a resting ruck up forward.
Yes conversion is a problem from some with poor techniques but should a resting ruck be your go to big man at the end of the day.

A guy who was best on for Box Hill yesterday called Mitch Lewis may just be able to compete in the air, just... maybe.

I agree though, Cegs really is a ruckman first and a forward 2nd, he should be the 3rd option or the "get out" kick once all other avenues have been looked at, as it stands you are right, he is our first option and our get out is to Pop or Punky (Gunno is normally somewhere on the wing or in that high half froward role).

Our forward set up is totally inept, but we all know that. Burns is the man who is in charge, a great defender.

 

[capitalhawk]

That's rich coming from fox footy. The only time I don't suffer footy on fox is when I watch it in silence.

Attendances for matches so far Marvel Thurs 25,195 Geelong Fri 28,108 MCG (Hawks) 31,895 SCG 26,194 Adel 25,623 from the AFL site. Figures for Coll match were not there yet.

 

[TylerDurden]

Attendances for matches so far Marvel Thurs 25,195 Geelong Fri 28,108 MCG (Hawks) 31,895 SCG 26,194 Adel 25,623 from the AFL site. Figures for Coll match were not there yet.

I love these facts.

It's a Witch hunt.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Attendances for matches so far Marvel Thurs 25,195 Geelong Fri 28,108 MCG (Hawks) 31,895 SCG 26,194 Adel 25,623 from the AFL site. Figures for Coll match were not there yet.

Collingwood /North had 38k under the roof. Two vic clubs.

 

[PT Bar None]

At least they canned the canned cheering after a goal

They did still have that canned "Hawthorn" chant though after goals

 

[JustKickIt]

Throw ins and ball ups all stop the clock

I know

 

[HODGEYROAD]

More positives out of yesterday's loss compared to our last 3 most recent losses, was gutted for the lads putting in the effort and not getting rewarded with thw W. Ultimately at least the loss helps us for draft positioning, I suppose that's the silver lining.

 

[Gralin]

Yeah, what I am saying is not to touch the mechanics but the actual process leading up to the shot. How far to go back, what to aim for, where you go from walk to build up, how to follow through and keep your head over the footy before looking up.

David Flood was no elite forward, but Jesus I remember working with him for hours on routine and it was the best thing for me.. A good teach can break your approach down to the most simplest form, it doesn’t look like our guys really have that. Especially looking at Jags, his set shots are just to trot back, look around, hold the ball all over the place and trot in to kick with a ball drop that comes from his hips.

Gunno has a great routine, I think his issues are certainly not mechanical or process related, same with Punky.

Anyway, it would be great for some specialist training to take place. There’s nothing more soul destroying than to work your ring off for your teammate to get a very very gettable shot on goal only to fluff it time and again.

Yeah routines are massive. Not sure why so many players don't have one, but then you watch them practice during the warm up and at training and most of them don't practice a routine.

You'd think it would be common sense....

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Jaeger, Jars and Chippa can be really proud of their efforts in yesterdays game.

 

[tige19]

Yeah routines are massive. Not sure why so many players don't have one, but then you watch them practice during the warm up and at training and most of them don't practice a routine.

You'd think it would be common sense....

Am I too old school? But when I was playing at a decent standard we where made to finish the night off with our goal kicking, there would be at least 20 minutes put aside for players to have shots, you’d have coaches directing you and picking out your faults, even the sides best set shots would be helping. Then after training so many of us would stick around outside to practise, and it was all about your routine, I can remember it like yesterday.

Jags I think just about had his best game for us, he was relentless for 4 quarters but those set shots of his where terrible from start to finish, just no process, no markers, no attention to his craft. You then compare how AFL players approach their shots on goal to league and union guys, I know different sports but these guys are so meticulous and so structured it’s very hard for them to miss (they all have a 70-80% strike rate). I think it just shows the importance of repetition and structure, it goes a long way.

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

David Rath was poached to an administration role at the AFL. He was one of the people Clarko used to refer to when lauding our stability, along with Jack Russell and Chris Fagan.

 

[cryptor]

Yeah routines are massive. Not sure why so many players don't have one, but then you watch them practice during the warm up and at training and most of them don't practice a routine.

You'd think it would be common sense....

What I've always found odd is how so many players have a dramatically different kicking style for shots at goal depending on whether it's in general play or a set shot. Obviously in general play they're not going to have the opportunity to go back a particular amount of steps, approach goal with a particular rhythm while holding the ball in an otherwise unconventional way. I often think it would be better for certain players to just run off the mark to play on and kick the goal as if it was in general play.

McEvoy is about the only player in the team that I feel is clearly much better with a set shot than a shot in general play. A whole other bunch are about the same either way, and then there's a few who I'd prefer just play on. Maybe they just over think it all when they've got all that time.

 

[thejockey]

Isn’t that breaking a run during a quarter a leadership issue. There’s players out on the track who should be able to control the game when need be

There last goal was a good case in point

One of our defenders got sucked into no mans land from the kick out allowing them to out number us at the top of the goal square for a fairly easy front and centre.

No way that happens with Hodge there . He would have everyone positioned at that kickout .
But it’s where we are at , hopefully we get a few on field leaders stepping up by the end of this season

 

[eldorado]

Ultimately at least the loss helps us for draft positioning, I suppose that's the silver lining.

Yep.

I can't handle these people who want us to lose every game now in hope of a better pick. That's shit eating St Kilda/Melbourne style thinking.

We want to win every week. Only after the game do you weigh up the practicalities to see a loss doesn't hurt as much as when you are aiming for top 4.

 

[Off The Couch]

No agenda here

 

[cryptor]

No agenda here

Compared to the other two it shouldn't even register on the scale. $1000 fine, all suspended.

 

[Off The Couch]

Compared to the other two it shouldn't even register on the scale. $1000 fine, all suspended.

If he gets done for that it will be based solely on him being James Sicily - if they didn’t like it they should of given a 50 or another free kick - anything will be a joke

 

[lethalselbow]

No agenda here

Nothing in it. A fair comment and the umpires don't want to be seen as sooks.

Move along.

 

[lethalselbow]

Usually these autopsy threads are about double in length by now. Bigfooty people must have been happy about Hawthorn's effort.

Go Hawks!

 

[Gralin]

Am I too old school? But when I was playing at a decent standard we where made to finish the night off with our goal kicking, there would be at least 20 minutes put aside for players to have shots, you’d have coaches directing you and picking out your faults, even the sides best set shots would be helping. Then after training so many of us would stick around outside to practise, and it was all about your routine, I can remember it like yesterday.

Jags I think just about had his best game for us, he was relentless for 4 quarters but those set shots of his where terrible from start to finish, just no process, no markers, no attention to his craft. You then compare how AFL players approach their shots on goal to league and union guys, I know different sports but these guys are so meticulous and so structured it’s very hard for them to miss (they all have a 70-80% strike rate). I think it just shows the importance of repetition and structure, it goes a long way.

No doubt.
I don't understand why anyone other than a defender doesn't have a routine

What I've always found odd is how so many players have a dramatically different kicking style for shots at goal depending on whether it's in general play or a set shot. Obviously in general play they're not going to have the opportunity to go back a particular amount of steps, approach goal with a particular rhythm while holding the ball in an otherwise unconventional way. I often think it would be better for certain players to just run off the mark to play on and kick the goal as if it was in general play.

McEvoy is about the only player in the team that I feel is clearly much better with a set shot than a shot in general play. A whole other bunch are about the same either way, and then there's a few who I'd prefer just play on. Maybe they just over think it all when they've got all that time.

McEvoy is pretty textbook, I think most of the good set shots have a routine that they focus on instead of the shot. The bad ones you can see them thinking about what if I miss, maybe this will work if I do this, they are all over the place

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

James Sicily will fined for playing while being James Sicily

 

[tommyk72]

I hope Clarko is legitimately getting his shovel out for a genuine clean out, hope to see a ruthless and unforgiving off-season. It’s so painful watching guys like Cegs and even Jags line up for goal, there is absolutely no fluency or structure in the way they go about it.

Tell me.. why wouldn’t the club engage JD to spend a day or 2 a week sorting out these blokes set shots? We literally have one of the, if not the greatest set shot at goal at our finger tips and we’re not utilising him. Cegs is so frustrating, pointless having him as the key forward /2nd ruck if he can’t kick goals.

It’s not technique with Cegs, it’s above the shoulders.

I had a feeling that Cegs wasn't a terrible kick for goal, so checked some stats. He was 5.3 for the year before yesterday. Which isn't horrific though yesterday's numbers change that.

Last year he kick 6.1. Hoping he can get back to that.

Lets remember that yesterday's conditions were horrible. I think it makes it even more difficult for taller guys who have a bigger distance between ball drop and foot, as the ball is heavier and more slippery it changes the dynamics. To even mark the ball yesterday in the forward 50 was damn good going. I hope he keeps getting three marks inside 50 and kicks 2 a week. Would be a great output.

Jaeger is the worry for me. Has kicked 8.7 this year (before yesterday). He needs to be making the most of his opportunities. His talent it next level and this is a big let down for mine. Hopefully with Tom back next year he will have a bit more energy (less carrying the team) and can be a bit more accurate.

 

[tommyk72]

No agenda here

Love how there isn't even the listing of an author on the page. Hide behind the corporation.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

At least they canned the canned cheering after a goal

Great song Suzi

 

[grumbleguts]

James Sicily will fined for playing while being James Sicily

What do you expect? If you start asking umpires legitimate questions, you are asking for trouble.