Preview Round 15, Swans vs West Coast @ SCG, 4.35pm AEST

[Donza]

It seems obligatory to have an opinion on Fox's omission so here goes.

Fox was poor last week in a fwd role on Coleman.

And yes playing one poor game in an unfamiliar role should not be a hanging offence, but why was he playing there in the first place?
I'd suggest because there wasn't considered a role in defence for him.

Robbie is only 185cm. For comparison Rampe 188cm, Francis 193cm, Melican 194cm.
He's done well previously as an undersized defender on a tall or taking a mid/small.
If you like the Rampe/Cunningham positions.

With those two in the team I'd argue he is competing against the two KPDs.
Oscar Allen 196cm, Maric 193cm, Darling 191cm and Jack Williams 198cm.
Possible one of those go back, but do we really want only one plus 190cm (plus Blakey) in our defence?

I think Fox has been squeezed out primarily due to the presence of Cunningham & Rampe, the wish for the match committee to continue to assess Francis and Melican, with potentially Tom Mac back in the firsts next week and simply defensive structure.

Harsh, but I can see a logic in it.

But Hayward!!!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

strangely enough, i thought hall was "misunderstood" when he joined us, and copped a bad wrap from the vic football media ... then he seemed to decide he'd just be the dckhead thug everyone said he was

And we got fed some A grade horseschitte when he left.

Saying he was leaving footy because he was scared he was going to permanently injure someone.

Which I totally respected.

Then he pops up next thing playing for the Bulldogs, right as rain we’re supposed to believe, and AFAIK not a single member of the gutless AFL media asked him about his miracle cure.

Anyway, off-topic, soz everyone.

 

[The King!]

Outside of the north game Foxes last half a dozen have been pretty average. Still surprised to see him omitted though.

I wonder if something has happened behind the scenes.

Maybe they lost his magnet for the team board

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Maybe they lost his magnet for the team board

Entire divisions of armies have been forgotten for similar reasons.

 

[ShireSwan]

If we get on top early do we think Mills and McDonald will be on limited tog?

How can they be with Sheldrick also on limited time though?
Fox and Clarke are two guys you can put on for most of the game to make up for others, they're not playing.

 

[ShireSwan]

It seems obligatory to have an opinion on Fox's omission so here goes.

Fox was poor last week in a fwd role on Coleman.

And yes playing one poor game in an unfamiliar role should not be a hanging offence, but why was he playing there in the first place?
I'd suggest because there wasn't considered a role in defence for him.

Robbie is only 185cm. For comparison Rampe 188cm, Francis 193cm, Melican 194cm.
He's done well previously as an undersized defender on a tall or taking a mid/small.
If you like the Rampe/Cunningham positions.

With those two in the team I'd argue he is competing against the two KPDs.
Oscar Allen 196cm, Maric 193cm, Darling 191cm and Jack Williams 198cm.
Possible one of those go back, but do we really want only one plus 190cm (plus Blakey) in our defence?

I think Fox has been squeezed out primarily due to the presence of Cunningham & Rampe, the wish for the match committee to continue to assess Francis and Melican, with potentially Tom Mac back in the firsts next week and simply defensive structure.

Harsh, but I can see a logic in it.

Fox is better down back now than Rampe who has slowed down. Does all the Rampe things, but quicker.
I was puzzled on why they gave Rampe two years, when the heir to his spot was so obviously there. I mean Rampe is still very good, but good and quick, is just better than good and slow.

I'd put Fox in our top 5 players the last 12 months.

 

[bedford]

Fox is better down back now than Rampe who has slowed down. Does all the Rampe things, but quicker.
I was puzzled on why they gave Rampe two years, when the heir to his spot was so obviously there. I mean Rampe is still very good, but good and quick, is just better than good and slow.

I'd put Fox in our top 5 players the last 12 months.

Fox is in his 30's here we go again

 

[MF]

And we got fed some A grade horseschitte when he left.

Saying he was leaving footy because he was scared he was going to permanently injure someone.

Which I totally respected.

Then he pops up next thing playing for the Bulldogs, right as rain we’re supposed to believe, and AFAIK not a single member of the gutless AFL media asked him about his miracle cure.

Anyway, off-topic, soz everyone.

Also spun it to make Roos sound like the villain for giving him the cold shoulder after the incident.

 

[MF]

Fox is better down back now than Rampe who has slowed down. Does all the Rampe things, but quicker.
I was puzzled on why they gave Rampe two years, when the heir to his spot was so obviously there. I mean Rampe is still very good, but good and quick, is just better than good and slow.

I'd put Fox in our top 5 players the last 12 months.

I don't think he does all the things Rampe does. He doesn't have Rampes absolute weapon of a kick and can't organise the defense like Rampe can. I'd also argue Rampe is a more capable defender on the taller forwards. Fox definitely has him covered for run and agility however.

Also... what makes you think Rampe has slowed down? He looked great last year and has only just returned from injury this year. Give him a month of footy at least before calling curtains on him.

 

[Donza]

Fox is better down back now than Rampe who has slowed down. Does all the Rampe things, but quicker.
I was puzzled on why they gave Rampe two years, when the heir to his spot was so obviously there. I mean Rampe is still very good, but good and quick, is just better than good and slow.

I'd put Fox in our top 5 players the last 12 months.

Yeah nah.

Fox had a exceptional second half of 2022.

He came back strongly initially this season. However , much like the rest of the side, has faded.

He's nowhere near the importance of Rampe as far as cohesion of the back line goes.

I'm a fox fan. However his run and carry this season seems to have evaded him.
While Blakey and Florent have assumed this mantle.

 

[Bloods86]

Yeah nah.

Fox had a exceptional second half of 2022.

He came back strongly initially this season. However , much like the rest of the side, has faded.

He's nowhere near the importance of Rampe as far as cohesion of the back line goes.

I'm a fox fan. However his run and carry this season seems to have evaded him.
While Blakey and Florent have assumed this mantle.

He's faded in the last few weeks, including being out of position. Part of why some of us are so angry is that this can happen to other players and they just get named week after week.

 

[ShireSwan]

I don't think he does all the things Rampe does. He doesn't have Rampes absolute weapon of a kick and can't organise the defense like Rampe can. I'd also argue Rampe is a more capable defender on the taller forwards. Fox definitely has him covered for run and agility however.

Also... what makes you think Rampe has slowed down? He looked great last year and has only just returned from injury this year. Give him a month of footy at least before calling curtains on him.

Disagree on organising. Fox gets us out of so many jams down back, when he reverses the direction of the ball and finds the outlet on the other side. Similar to what Rampe does (probably learned it off him), but opponents can get to Rampe, very few can when Fox puts down that 5 step burst to get clear and then reaches the open side by hand or foot.
Donza Obviously he's not playing as well with the team as a whole not playing as well, but he is still one few with the physical tools to turn the play IMO.

Fox Mcartin Cunningham

Blakey Melican/Arnold Lloyd


Rampey on the bench for me as our best defense going forward. Though I don't expect the coaches to pick it. Be interested to see Arnold get a shot at it soon.

 

[Donza]

Disagree on organising. Fox gets us out of so many jams down back, when he reverses the direction of the ball and finds the outlet on the other side. Similar to what Rampe does (probably learned it off him), but opponents can get to Rampe, very few can when Fox puts down that 5 step burst to get clear and then reaches the open side by hand or foot.
Donza Obviously he's not playing as well with the team as a whole not playing as well, but he is still one few with the physical tools to turn the play IMO.

Fox Mcartin Cunningham

Blakey Melican/Arnold Lloyd


Rampey on the bench for me as our best defense going forward. Though I don't expect the coaches to pick it. Be interested to see Arnold get a shot at it soon.

IMO your opinion of him is passed on what you saw. Past tense.

Not what is happening now.

He was 4th in line in defence after rampe came back. Behind Francis and Melican.

Due to Blakey's rise as a one on one defender. Fox is now 5th.

Throw in Lloyd, Cunningham, Florent, Mills . Its full down back.

Then hopefully McCartin next week. Who will push Melican or Francis out.

Thats why he's been pushed out.

 

[Donza]

Its weird . Swans get back three pivotal players.
However.
Lets pontificate about the dropping of Fox.

 

[Donza]

He's faded in the last few weeks, including being out of position. Part of why some of us are so angry is that this can happen to other players and they just get named week after week.

I presume you mean Hayward?

He shits me at times. However I don't let my emotions dictate nor influence my subjectivity.

I value his contribution as a pressure fwd (we have none) an outlet mark (besides McLean who else is there) and a person with a nose for a goal.

 

[Bloods86]

Its weird . Swans get back three pivotal players.
However.
Lets pontificate about the dropping of Fox.

It's not weird, it's perfectly reasonable.

We're rushing back players to play the Eagles. Cool.

We drop someone who should be among first picked for most of the year after he drops off for a couple of games. We continue to pick players out of form for longer, they'll probably look good against the oppo, and we'll have to listen to "I told you so" happy clappers.

If there's no room down back (incorrect), play Fox up front again. It's the Eagles, he'll probably be leaping over them like his mark against the Cats.

 

[Bloods86]

I presume you mean Hayward?

He shits me at times. However I don't let my emotions dictate nor influence my subjectivity.

I value his contribution as a pressure fwd (we have none) an outlet mark (besides McLean who else is there) and a person with a nose for a goal.

If you think I'm being emotional about Hayward, you don't read my posts. I've stated several times across threads that I am not in the "trade him" camp as some are, and I think being dropped would help him.

He's the type who plays well for a year or so (and it's not just goal kicking), then gets into a slump. First time earlier in his career, he got dropped, he came back well. Second time (2021 I think), the week I lost patience he came good again and was valuable through the rest of 21/22. Now I'm several weeks past wanting him dropped with no sign of anything changing. Meanwhile we boot others for less.

 

[Donza]

It's not weird, it's perfectly reasonable.

We're rushing back players to play the Eagles. Cool.

We drop someone who should be among first picked for most of the year after he drops off for a couple of games. We continue to pick players out of form for longer, they'll probably look good against the oppo, and we'll have to listen to "I told you so" happy clappers.

If there's no room down back (incorrect), play Fox up front again. It's the Eagles, he'll probably be leaping over them like his mark against the Cats.

"rushing"
"first picked" then a dose of
Whataboutism



OK.

 

[Bloods86]

"rushing"
"first picked" then a dose of
Whataboutism



OK.

If you don't have a response, that's fine.

Mills and Logan have been out for a while, there's no real need to bring them straight into seniors.

Heeney has been out of form for most of the year. If we have selection integrity, he could come back via the 2s or have an extra week to sort out whatever underlying issues have caused his current playing level.

 

[Donza]

If you don't have a response, that's fine.

Mills and Logan have been out for a while, there's no real need to bring them straight into seniors.

Heeney has been out of form for most of the year. If we have selection integrity, he could come back via the 2s or have an extra week to sort out whatever underlying issues have caused his current playing level.

I had a response.

However I will respond to this as well.

The rationale to bring them back is to get seniors game time in a softer game while also contributing to the chance of a win.
They could have played in the VFL. Sure. However I reckon the HP team/staff know both players base level of fitness.

I have no idea what selection integrity is? Is there a underwritten law that defines how selections should occur?

Maybe the medical staff have access to Issacs medical records and thus made a decision based on that?

BTW he was pretty bloody good playing off Cripps.

 

[kelpie_X]

No i mean stop having 2 rucks smash into each other knees first.

Has to be a better solution.

Tip off like Basketball?

 

[kelpie_X]

Mills and McDonald should be coming through the VFL, too.

Dropping Fox after playing him out of position is awful from Horse. You'd drop almost half the team before him.

Horse has lost the plot.

If you can't do the team things, we'll....

My son had to play ruck on the weekend. Never rucked before in his life. He plays HFF HBF. Our ruck was getting flogged and the coach had had enough. Son ended up BoG. What an interesting story.

 

[Bloods86]

I had a response.

However I will respond to this as well.

The rationale to bring them back is to get seniors game time in a softer game while also contributing to the chance of a win.
They could have played in the VFL. Sure. However I reckon the HP team/staff know both players base level of fitness.

I have no idea what selection integrity is? Is there a underwritten law that defines how selections should occur?

Maybe the medical staff have access to Issacs medical records and thus made a decision based on that?

BTW he was pretty bloody good playing off Cripps.

Weird, I didn't see one. Must be blinded by rage.

Selection integrity in this case is being equally lenient or harsh based on form. Knowing a players capability can come into it, outside of form, but in Fox's case (as opposed to others) that doesn't even make sense.

If there is no underlying issue, then Heeney has just been out of form most of the year. And I've consistently said most, because you're right he has looked good in a couple. He went back to his poor form then got smashed in the face.

 

[Bloods86]

If you can't do the team things, we'll....

My son had to play ruck on the weekend. Never rucked before in his life. He plays HFF HBF. Our ruck was getting flogged and the coach had had enough. Son ended up BoG. What an interesting story.

I'm sorry, but Fox not doing team things...

Incredible.

 

[Donza]

Weird, I didn't see one. Must be blinded by rage.

Selection integrity in this case is being equally lenient or harsh based on form. Knowing a players capability can come into it, outside of form, but in Fox's case (as opposed to others) that doesn't even make sense.

If there is no underlying issue, then Heeney has just been out of form most of the year. And I've consistently said most, because you're right he has looked good in a couple. He went back to his old form then got smashed in the face.

I never implied you were .

I'm a bit more pragmatic than embracing a notion of selection integrity. I look at match-ups vs the Opp. and the game style we want to play.

Re Heeney. I have no idea whats going on. Though I think the swans medical staff do.