Autopsy Round 17, 2023: St.Kilda v Melbourne *STEELE 150TH*

[AirWinmar]

I need to have a better watch of this game as I watched it at a mates over dinner, but we look to have our game style back.

Moved the ball a lot better and in my view smashed Melbourne in general play, just struggled to convert, our i50's need to improve and we also stuffed around with it a bit in our forward line.

If we continue to play like that, the results will come and for us fans at least it will be enjoyable to watch

 

[Saintbloke]

Yeah Howard had 4 mistakes that were unforgivable

Stocker had a turn over that was shocking and directly resulted in goal, I think Stocker has just been going the last 3 weeks . Maybe starting to feel the effects of a long year

Stocker still has some pretty good attributes, and maybe Lyon could swing him into the forward half, just to give a little bit more physical presence at ground level. No Higgins last night, and no King just means it's hit and miss in the forward half. I think a couple of the Sandy Saints could benefit by having big games in this situation.

 

[saintvic]

Play like we did tonight and the next 4 weeks are easy

I agree, if we bring the same effort I’m feeling a lot more confident about the next 4 week, even with the injuries.

 

[gringo2011]

Might get shouted down here but… gee don’t we play a better brand of football when Max is not playing?
Not sure the reasoning, are the players told to only kick it to him or do the players themselves think they have to get it to him, maybe we can do a Bing with him next season,play him at CHB & keep the current setup seeing we are crying out for a tall backman.

I think it's a bit coincidental. We get a bit lazy with our entries when he's in the side but we played better yesterday because the midfield played better, Sincs, Nas, Jones, Billings, Byrnes, Steele, Marshall all stepped up and made us better than last week.

If King had had played he might have finished better than our kids. We were conversion off winning that match, we out played them in general play but couldn't finish.

If we'd turned 3 of those behinds into goals we probably build belief and get reward for effort and win. King probably keeps May or Lever more accountable too. Butler couldn't get anything going without him to feed off too.

 

[bird_man]

I think we are at the point with Gresham that we are frustrated and only focusing on the mistakes.

Outside of a couple of poor mistakes he was good last night. 8 score involvements is quite impressive. You'd take that every week.

Unfortunately his disposal is quite frustrating though. I've been saying this for years, how a player can get away with dump kicking mongrel punts is beyond me, it seems like such a coachable aspect of the game.

 

[beside the seaside]

I think we are at the point with Gresham that we are frustrated and only focusing on the mistakes.

Outside of a couple of poor mistakes he was good last night. 8 score involvements is quite impressive. You'd take that every week.

Unfortunately his disposal is quite frustrating though. I've been saying this for years, how a player can get away with dump kicking mongrel punts is beyond me, it seems like such a coachable aspect of the game.

The issue with Gresh is how poor he has been before this last fortnight. The last couple of weeks he has been great but before that he was a liability. So giving him a big contract feels like a risk, but if he consistently played like last night then he's worth it.

 

[The Cobra]

I want Gresham gone.

Has a low footy IQ. Massive momentum killer.

Really hope he finds a new home at the end of the season.

Not sure I’m fussed if he stays or goes (but certainly don’t want to be paying him huge $S to stay) - but never was or will be a midfielder - no defensive pressure and an ordinary kick - dangerous small forward on his day

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah Howard had 4 mistakes that were unforgivable

Stocker had a turn over that was shocking and directly resulted in goal, I think Stocker has just been going the last 3 weeks . Maybe starting to feel the effects of a long year

Our backline is pretty unsettled at the moment. Ideally your back 6 or 7 are absolutely in sync and know every move that each other make. We had Battle out, Windhager back for his first game there, Nas and Sincs higher up the ground because Hill was out and we need mids etc.

It looked patchy and we also seemed to be playing brave attacking footy which meant that we were often all in on going forward which left open players up the field and our 2 tall backs exposed one out and often Melksham or Jordan types ran in and were isolated out wide and deep. Petracca played predominantly forward too which seemed to be a match up we struggled with.

 

[Mowman]

I think we are at the point with Gresham that we are frustrated and only focusing on the mistakes.

Outside of a couple of poor mistakes he was good last night. 8 score involvements is quite impressive. You'd take that every week.

Unfortunately his disposal is quite frustrating though. I've been saying this for years, how a player can get away with dump kicking mongrel punts is beyond me, it seems like such a coachable aspect of the game.

Sunday footy show just did something on this, dump kicks into the 50 when we had players around the ball to give of to and set up better

 

[bird_man]

Not sure I’m fussed if he stays or goes (but certainly don’t want to be paying him huge $S to stay) - but never was or will be a midfielder - no defensive pressure and an ordinary kick - dangerous small forward on his day

I don't mind him going into the midfield. He càn often give us a spark in there and a point of difference, but not as a full time mid.

Still think he could be an all australian forward if he could put a good full season together

 

[BucketsandBanger]

You don't though. You get a few lottery tickets. This draft isn't even a good draft for mids. We'd probably end up turning a generational tall forward into Newnes and Acres.

King is a marquee player and worth more than just output alone. In a close final those types are often the difference too. I agree everything starts in the midfield but more gun midfielders come up than generational KPFs.

You'd get Hollands for a second round pick if you went to do that trade. Humphrey is pretty settled up there, he has to want to be traded too.

I get Marshall being put on the table. That's an argument. He's amazing but you can use his capital on a midfielder and play a more rudimentary ruckman instead and probably not go backwards longer term. King would be one of the few untouchables on our list IMO.

Fair enough, just don’t know how we are gonna improve our midfield enough from the position we are in.

 

[bird_man]

Fair enough, just don’t know how we are gonna improve our midfield enough from the position we are in.

Need to pry out some young mids from other clubs. Can't see the draft doing it for us this year.

We Do have Pou, Windhager and Owens who will all start to play midfield more and more in the coming years.

 

[hangdog]

Any praise for Ronnie Byrnes’ 100% disposal efficiency game? For a ball butcher he did Pretty well

Problem is he had a brilliant 3rd quarter but was largely missing the rest of the game

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Need to pry out some young mids from other clubs. Can't see the draft doing it for us this year.

We Do have Pou, Windhager and Owens who will all start to play midfield more and more in the coming years.

Would you trade King if it meant we got two really good mids?

 

[Mowman]

Need to pry out some young mids from other clubs. Can't see the draft doing it for us this year.

We Do have Pou, Windhager and Owens who will all start to play midfield more and more in the coming years.

Who would you be looking at

 

[Baldur]

We play somewhat ok, only somewhat as poor goal kicking is poor play. So the footy gods kick us in the head.

 

[Desperate saint]

Hammer wasn't a liability!

He's a 19 year old key fwd!

Again he is 19!

To have 8 tackles as KPF is ridiculously good.

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I agree with Philipou always seems rushed and is not making good decisions with the ball in hand -needs o get his hands on the ball and dominate a game -I would sau to Sharman you are forward until King comes back lets see what you can do -at last he is a somewhat accurate kick for goal

 

[pluggeranddoc]

Gresh, to me, is expectation vs reality.

We all (me included) had expectations he could be DeGoey or Dusty lite and that’s just not happening. At 25 I can’t ever see his foot skills progressing to a point that he can match those guys capabilities. I also think we’ve seen enough know to know he shouldn’t be playing extended midfield minutes. He might get a couple of centre bounces each game but unless he can learn to be a handball first player he’s a liability. He doesn’t work defensively and his first instinct is hack 30m snap. It kills the clearance by being easy to defend. Predominantly forward where his evasiveness and goal sense can be best used.

Alternately if some other team thinks ge can be their dusty/DeGoey then I’m happy to let him go. RFA from memory so if they wanna cough up 800-900+ per year (and I suspect some idiot team will) then let him go, use that to retain or recruit something we need and take the compo.

Gresh has teased us for years now that he’s gonna breakout and maybe (he’s still only 25) he will but I doubt it.

Only the idiots that brought Hill and Hannebery to StKilda could possibly countenance Gresham at 800-900k!
Have they found employment elsewhere?

 

[Desperate saint]

I feel frustrated this morning. Frustrated because... even with the injury handicap we were dealt.....even with the amount of intercept marks taken in our forward 50.....even with some of the poor decision making by some of our players, if we'd just simply kicked straight we could have won the game.

I think the boys would feel like they let a game in their keeping slip. Hopefully they gain a huge amount of confidence from this outing and if we continue to play like last night, I believe we will play finals.

Our Kicking for goal has cost us so much over the years -agree so disappointing tonight and some easy shots -Phillipou in the first Billings-Crouch Wood etc

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure I’m fussed if he stays or goes (but certainly don’t want to be paying him huge $S to stay) - but never was or will be a midfielder - no defensive pressure and an ordinary kick - dangerous small forward on his day

He's defending more in the last few weeks. I think he's starting to get into the Lyon game plan more now. He couldn't get the balance right early on.

He's like bitch-Stewie DeGoey IMO. He's a less polished but he has similar impact at his best. I'd happily pay him $650ish if he plays like he did yesterday. You'd have to pay JDG a lot more to get an upgrade.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I agree, if we bring the same effort I’m feeling a lot more confident about the next 4 week, even with the injuries.

Tbh the main impact from these injuries will be King.
We have good players to come back - Battle,Hill, Higgins - not sure where Membrey is at.
Jones was very good and Billings was ok and will be better for the run.

 

[crasha301]

I agree with Philipou always seems rushed and is not making good decisions with the ball in hand -needs o get his hands on the ball and dominate a game -I would sau to Sharman you are forward until King comes back lets see what you can do -at last he is a somewhat accurate kick for goal

Yeah Pou looks a little rushed atm but the kid passes the eye test with flying colours.

He's got that "it" factor that not many have.

At the moment he's zigging when he should have zagged but I'm really excited to see him get to 50 games and feel comfortable and rip games apart.

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[Desperate saint]

He had a mixed bag, did some great intercepts but as you said cost some goals. I thought they held Wilkie well which meant that Howard had to do more covering of players that weren't his.

Stocker made a few critical errors too but he's held in high regard so gets a let off. His disposal is all all or nothing IMO. He looks clean or terrible and nothing in-between. I wouldn't mind trying him in the midfield and pushing someone else back in his spot.

Agree with this -accept the 1st handball and use his kicking speed and accuracy to get the ball into our fwd line -all our other mids have slow high kicks

 

[gringo2011]

Gresh, to me, is expectation vs reality.

We all (me included) had expectations he could be DeGoey or Dusty lite and that’s just not happening. At 25 I can’t ever see his foot skills progressing to a point that he can match those guys capabilities. I also think we’ve seen enough know to know he shouldn’t be playing extended midfield minutes. He might get a couple of centre bounces each game but unless he can learn to be a handball first player he’s a liability. He doesn’t work defensively and his first instinct is hack 30m snap. It kills the clearance by being easy to defend. Predominantly forward where his evasiveness and goal sense can be best used.

Alternately if some other team thinks ge can be their dusty/DeGoey then I’m happy to let him go. RFA from memory so if they wanna cough up 800-900+ per year (and I suspect some idiot team will) then let him go, use that to retain or recruit something we need and take the compo.

Gresh has teased us for years now that he’s gonna breakout and maybe (he’s still only 25) he will but I doubt it.

He's had 3 injury interrupted season and for half of last year looked like he was on track to be what his potential looks like. He was one of 3 players on 25 possessions and over 1 goal a game along with DeGoey before injury. To me a second round pick is cashing out on a bet. If he can be signed on a decent wage without going overboard you'd sign him up. If someone is going to go nuts and give him $900k over 5 you'd be crazy to match.

 

[crasha301]

He's defending more in the last few weeks. I think he's starting to get into the Lyon game plan more now. He couldn't get the balance right early on.

He's like bitch-Stewie DeGoey IMO. He's a less polished but he has similar impact at his best. I'd happily pay him $650ish if he plays like he did yesterday. You'd have to pay JDG a lot more to get an upgrade.

Imo Gresh should be on 400k with bonuses for BnF, all Australian ect

Would keep him honest.

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