Round 17 - Hawks v Collingwood

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Looking at the teams on paper and while both forward lines could in theory get on top of the respective backlines it's this that is crucial.

Swan, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams & Thomas

Now that's 5 players, 4 of which have a genuine claim for All-Australian this year and the other was All Australian last year. That is a serious unit.

Compare that to...

Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Shiels & Young

...and we're at a serious disadvantage on paper.

I was thinking the same thing, looks like you beat me to it. They have guys that can play the inside midfield and outside midfield roles, whereas most of ours are good inside mids, but don't have the speed, except young who is the opposite, only outside mid.

Yes, if collingwood's midfield are onsong, they could be devastating. Even when pendlebury was injured, they could cover him, beams was exceptional.

What makes our case even more difficult is that both savage and smith are not inform. Even if we say Mitchell/sewell have a great day out, they need outside runners to do the damage, whereas with collingwood someone like thomas/swan/beams win their own ball and spring away, no relying on someone else.

I think we will have rioli spend some time in the middle to get some clearance. I think roughead will be good too, he will use his big body to make way for our midfielders to clear the ball. He has speed, strength and actually has been a good clearance player. They will probably play burgoyne there at times as well. Agree, that is their strength, but it is not like we are the only ones against it, the rest of clubs will find it difficult.

I wonder whether someone like Ellis would make a difference, obviously needs to get his body right, but he would not be that far behind thomas, bring some class / speed (more than both sewell/mitchell).

If their fwds are in form, we are in trouble as well as don't have the size/height. Gibson is a great player, but he is giving away both size/height.

I think as people said small fwds of carlton caused collingwood some problems, so make shaw accountable and let bruest/poupolo do some damage.

Not to forget, need to play 4 qtrs.
 
Ok Heres a revelation for you guys

Injury update as at 17 July
Xavier Ellis (knee) - test
Amos Frank (calf) - 2-3 weeks
Lance Franklin (hamstring) - 2 weeks
Sam Grimley (finger) - 5-6 weeks
Luke Hodge (knee) - test
Will Langford (shoulder) - 1 week
Derick Wanganeen (hamstring) - 1 week
Michael Osborne (knee) - season
Alex Woodward (knee)
- season
Andrew Boseley (shoulder) - season


LOL at Hodge Test surely he lines up against the pies?
Pit about Amos, Wangas Grimley and Boseley
 

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If Shoey goes back then Gilham goes out. Having Shoey, Gibbo, Strats, Murph and Shoey all in the backline is going too tall.

Two Schoeys in the backline. I'm not sure. The Schoey haters will have trouble keeping up with their errors!!

Didn't know the Hawks were allowed to clone players:D
 
Clarko is pretty crafty. I am not convinced he will play Schoey up forward again.

He may try to bring in a second ruck and play Hale at FF and Rough at CHF with Lowden as the ruck.

Collingwood's medium defenders got cut to ribbons by us last time and have looked weak all year against quick smalls. With two big talls they will be split between playing third man up and keeping an eye on their individual opponents.

I'd go:

In: Lowden and Savage

Out: Gilham and Murphy

FB: Stratton - Gibson - Suckling
HB: Cheney - Schoey - Birchall
Ce: Young - Mitchell - Shiels
HF: Rioli - Roughie - Puopolo
FF: Breust - Hale - Gunston

Ru: Lowden
RR: Lewis
Ro: Sewell

I/C: Whitecross, Burgers, Smith + Savage
 
How good is the pies midfields without Jolly ?

I don't reckon they are good unless they can skulk near the boundary line

Why do you ask?

Don't they have Jolly & doesn't that make the question a little redundant? Or, are you suggesting that Hale/Roughy breaking even with them will see their midfield far less effective?
 
What do people think of Hill playing this week?

Initially I thought he would be far too light against the Pies, then I recalled that he debuted against the Eagles; easily as physical as the Pies (bigger bodied anyway). Then I wondered about the Pies' somewhat slow backline & how they are troubled by quick, small attackers...

I think Hill is a good shot at getting a call up for this week as SUB, likely to come on late in the 3rd & play as a FF or a FP that plays high. I don't expect him to do a lot of defensive work at all; probably more so to be a guy that floats free over on the fat side, hoping to get on the end of a quick switch of play (or 3:thumbsu:).

Hill to come on & see Gilham go off as SUB; Schoey to start forward & move back when the SUB is activated. Something like what appears below:

FB: Stratton Gilham Suckling
HB: Burgoyne Gibson Birchall
Ce: Smith Mitchell Young
R : Hale Sewell Shiels
HF: WX Schoen. Lewis
FF: Cyril Roughead Popeye
IC: Gunston Breust Savage
SUB: Hill

* Those listed in red having a realistic chance of rotating through the middle.
** Birch & Suckling could go to the wing if really required.
 
They have some genuine clowns in that team which can be exposed. Harry O is funny to watch....and as long as you man up on Maxwell he becomes more useless than a Kardashian at the G20 Summit.
He is, isn't he? The high knee running, the inability to kick anything other than a sky ball, the scared look he gets when he has to play one on one defense and his inability to defend a player moving with the ball.

I don't buy into politically correct cr@p
You still didn't answer my questions. Is Chinese Jordan Lewis, Jordan Lewis or another player? How does he get the adjective Chinese to describe him?
 
Interesting reading in this thread. I think both sets of supporters are quietly confident which is not surprising since you have won 6 on end and us 10 of 11. Because neither team has been greatly tested in the main recently its hard to really gauge how we stack up. If you didn't see Coll in the last 2 weeks we were appalling against Carlton (I didn't think they were v good just us bad) but we smashed Geelong last week. Don't worry about scoring shots etc that game was over at 1/4 time. It was the best we have played since Adelaide in Adelaide and Tarrant had a lot to do with that. Collingwood this year have not put sides to the sword like 2011 and I wonder whether Buckley etc have the team aimed to be primed for the end of the year as we peaked very early in 2011.

Hawks for mine may have a similar strategy as they seem to be really working well into the 2nd half of the season. I am surprised how relaxed you are about no Buddy, its the biggest out anyone in the AFL can have and he plays well against us. If we can't beat you with him out I think we will struggle to beat you in the finals this year. This I think tips the scales to us and I expect us to win. Cloke also matches well against your defence and if our midfield get on top he will be a big danger. Tarrant will be forward I reckon as his presence was a big help to Dawes on Sat night. Cloke, Dawes and Tarrant all have big tanks and can spread and isolate themselves.

Both midfields are very strong, you are deeper at the moment esp with Wellingham out but out top end is a little better. One thing you might see on sat is Daisy slipping forward a little, has been doing that a bit lately and trying to match with someone who isn't strong overhead as he is very good there. Issac Smaith has been fantastic against us PF and R1, surprised to hear he has been down , I haven't watched him lately but he has talent.

Massive match for both sides but especially the Hawks for mine. It's going to knock you bigtime if you lose this week as you will probably end up 8 points behind the top 3 side and it means 4th realistically becomes the highest spot open to you. If you look at Sydney, Adelaide and Collingwood's draw none probably are likely to lose 2 of the last 6. Win and top 4 is a given and top 2 beckons which means no travel 1st week and a likely rest week 2. The same applies to us but a lose means we are equal on points so given the % only need to make up 1 game on you.

This year in matches between the top 6 sides only Sydney (2x) and Collingwood (1x) have won interstate away matches. It makes it much harder. One of Collingwood or Hawthorn will finish top 2 this year I reckon as we are the 2 best lists. The team that will do that is the team that wins Sat and they are a big chance to go on and win the flag
 
Interesting reading in this thread. I think both sets of supporters are quietly confident which is not surprising since you have won 6 on end and us 10 of 11. Because neither team has been greatly tested in the main recently its hard to really gauge how we stack up. If you didn't see Coll in the last 2 weeks we were appalling against Carlton (I didn't think they were v good just us bad) but we smashed Geelong last week. Don't worry about scoring shots etc that game was over at 1/4 time. It was the best we have played since Adelaide in Adelaide and Tarrant had a lot to do with that. Collingwood this year have not put sides to the sword like 2011 and I wonder whether Buckley etc have the team aimed to be primed for the end of the year as we peaked very early in 2011.

Hawks for mine may have a similar strategy as they seem to be really working well into the 2nd half of the season. I am surprised how relaxed you are about no Buddy, its the biggest out anyone in the AFL can have and he plays well against us. If we can't beat you with him out I think we will struggle to beat you in the finals this year. This I think tips the scales to us and I expect us to win. Cloke also matches well against your defence and if our midfield get on top he will be a big danger. Tarrant will be forward I reckon as his presence was a big help to Dawes on Sat night. Cloke, Dawes and Tarrant all have big tanks and can spread and isolate themselves.

Both midfields are very strong, you are deeper at the moment esp with Wellingham out but out top end is a little better. One thing you might see on sat is Daisy slipping forward a little, has been doing that a bit lately and trying to match with someone who isn't strong overhead as he is very good there. Issac Smaith has been fantastic against us PF and R1, surprised to hear he has been down , I haven't watched him lately but he has talent.

Massive match for both sides but especially the Hawks for mine. It's going to knock you bigtime if you lose this week as you will probably end up 8 points behind the top 3 side and it means 4th realistically becomes the highest spot open to you. If you look at Sydney, Adelaide and Collingwood's draw none probably are likely to lose 2 of the last 6. Win and top 4 is a given and top 2 beckons which means no travel 1st week and a likely rest week 2. The same applies to us but a lose means we are equal on points so given the % only need to make up 1 game on you.

This year in matches between the top 6 sides only Sydney (2x) and Collingwood (1x) have won interstate away matches. It makes it much harder. One of Collingwood or Hawthorn will finish top 2 this year I reckon as we are the 2 best lists. The team that will do that is the team that wins Sat and they are a big chance to go on and win the flag

Great post! :thumbsu: Who do you think will tag Birchall? All the best on Sat. :)
 

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Great post! :thumbsu: Who do you think will tag Birchall? All the best on Sat. :)
Goldsack has been playing a defensive forward role , has good size and has to be respected as can and has been kicking long goals most weeks. He would be the match for mine
 
Goldsack has been playing a defensive forward role , has good size and has to be respected as can and has been kicking long goals most weeks. He would be the match for mine

Was about to mention Goldsack as a potential match up on Birchall, which now means 4 talls up forward at the one time. We will have our hands full down back that's for sure! Going to be very tough for our defense containing all of them.
 
Goldsack has been playing a defensive forward role , has good size and has to be respected as can and has been kicking long goals most weeks. He would be the match for mine

That match up really might trouble us.
 
What do people think of Hill playing this week?

Initially I thought he would be far too light against the Pies, then I recalled that he debuted against the Eagles; easily as physical as the Pies (bigger bodied anyway). Then I wondered about the Pies' somewhat slow backline & how they are troubled by quick, small attackers...

I think Hill is a good shot at getting a call up for this week as SUB, likely to come on late in the 3rd & play as a FF or a FP that plays high. I don't expect him to do a lot of defensive work at all; probably more so to be a guy that floats free over on the fat side, hoping to get on the end of a quick switch of play (or 3:thumbsu:).

Hill to come on & see Gilham go off as SUB; Schoey to start forward & move back when the SUB is activated. Something like what appears below:

FB: Stratton Gilham Suckling
HB: Burgoyne Gibson Birchall
Ce: Smith Mitchell Young
R : Hale Sewell Shiels
HF: WX Schoen. Lewis
FF: Cyril Roughead Popeye
IC: Gunston Breust Savage
SUB: Hill

* Those listed in red having a realistic chance of rotating through the middle.
** Birch & Suckling could go to the wing if really required.

I reckon Bailey will be a in so Roughead can play more forward time, also guerra is close to being available or does he have one more game, With Buddy and Hodge out, these two would be important to help combat the PIES.

Gurreas defensive pressure, Roughie presence in the forward line, Hale and Bailey taking Ruck and forward dutys, keeping the pressure on the pies to have Tarrant in defence. We can do, the boys are hungry for it, you can see it in there game plan! GO HAWKAS!!
 
I am surprised how relaxed you are about no Buddy, its the biggest out anyone in the AFL can have and he plays well against us. If we can't beat you with him out I think we will struggle to beat you in the finals this year. This I think tips the scales to us and I expect us to win. Cloke also matches well against your defence and if our midfield get on top he will be a big danger. Tarrant will be forward I reckon as his presence was a big help to Dawes on Sat night. Cloke, Dawes and Tarrant all have big tanks and can spread and isolate themselves.

Agree with all of this.

Can't believe the Pies were $2.10 on Tab Sportsbet the other day, now into $2.00.

This game is vital and without Buddy this must give Collingwood's defence confidence that they can restrict us to a gettable score, would be a major dent to their self belief if they lost given this. They'll be primed though.

On the flipside no Buddy means we are looking at other avenues and a greater spread of goal kicking options which makes things unpredictable. Breust, Rioli, Whitecross, Gunston, Roughie and Hale can still do the job but the quality of supply will need to be top notch plus their defensive work inside 50 will also be critical as the Pies set up very well from half back.

If the Pies are on top of their game they should win this one.
 
Others have suggested Puopolo might go to Shaw. Savage has played a checking HF role and did not play last week. I know he had a poor game against GWS, but might he have been rested ready for a job?
 
I think I'd try big Max in for Cheney as a trial while Buddy is out. I'd ruck Hale against Jolly and Max against Dawes. When Max is in the middle we could play a small Half forward line Rioli, Punky and Poppy and have Max hit to space, their small defenders will hate it.
Shoe to the backline and savage in for Gilham.
I really think we can turn the tables in the ruck and have a big advantage here (it's been a long time) it will also reduce their advantage in the midfield(maybe).
I just feel it's a chance to do a few things different while Buddy is out, they wouldn't expect.
 
Looking at the teams on paper and while both forward lines could in theory get on top of the respective backlines it's this that is crucial.

Swan, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams & Thomas

Now that's 5 players, 4 of which have a genuine claim for All-Australian this year and the other was All Australian last year. That is a serious unit.

Compare that to...

Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Shiels & Young

...and we're at a serious disadvantage on paper.

Yep worried about this game. The Pies midfield is dangerous. Full of run and they can all kick goals. Having said that I think our midfield has a harder edge. Would be a bit more comfortable if our ins where Guerra, (a fit) Hodge & Franklin.
 
a week early, we will thump Collingwood.
I was going to search this thread for a similar post and I was lucky enough to find it on the first page! I completely agree with this. Both sides are great sides, but Hawthorn I can see will run all over the pies! I have $ on Hawthorn to win the GF by at least 7 goals, no matter what team.
 
That match up really might trouble us.

Not by enough to warrant any concern.

I was going to search this thread for a similar post and I was lucky enough to find it on the first page! I completely agree with this. Both sides are great sides, but Hawthorn I can see will run all over the pies! I have $ on Hawthorn to win the GF by at least 7 goals, no matter what team.

That's a better bet than us under 7 goals that's for sure.
 
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