Autopsy Round 18 = Collingwood 62-91 Carlton

[Gone Critical]

Disappointing but not surprising. Beating them twice would have given us something to salvage the year. An achievement.

I would sum the match up as bottom 8
team challenged but then gets on top of bottom 4 side. As much as we might want to rail against that thought and believe we let them back in it’s a much more realistic option. All 4 matches on Sunday illustrated that senario. A poor list is our primary issue, games plan and coaching staff dont matter much until we rectify our list issues

Positives were Henry and Ruscoe. Both showed a bit with season best games. We have some reasonable kids coming through.
Hopefully some can step up over time to become the class we need

Match did illustrate the difference in top end young talent most lists have compared to us. Walsh, McKay and Weitering represent a bedrock on which to build a gun team. I still have a belief and hope that Carlton can stuff up their development even with this 3 elite young players in place. It does however contrast strongly with our need for top end young talent. Looking at those 3 and Essendons developing youth makes me sick

 

[Trickster]

No point dreaming about trading Grundy. He would have to be carried out in a coffin to leave the club with the deal he is on and the very ordinary form he has been in for 2 years now. The same deal will prevent us ever being able to offload him to another club. He is now the albatross we are forced to wear around our collective neck.

Thinking more about this, I think we need to drop Grundy for Lynch to make a statement.

Gives him a kick up the backside and tells him its not acceptable to be paid $1m and let silvagni waltz out of the middle with a clerance and also hopefully increases Lynch's value if he decides to move on.

 

[manicpie]

Thinking more about this, I think we need to drop Grundy for Lynch to make a statement.

Gives him a kick up the backside and tells him its not acceptable to be paid $1m and let silvagni waltz out of the middle with a clerance and also hopefully increases Lynch's value if he decides to move on.

I think grundy was injured in the second quarter and while I agree with you about dropping Grundy it will probably reflect negatively on our club if we drop him. The media would have a field day with it

 

[barrackers]

Match did illustrate the difference in top end young talent most lists have compared to us. Walsh, McKay and Weitering represent a bedrock on which to build a gun team

Sides on the edge of the 8 still have some hope and hence more to play for. In terms of talent: Moore, DeGoey, ?.

Don’t think we’re that far away, just need that key forward. With the footy we had early a key forward would have made a difference.

 

[Gone Critical]

Sides on the edge of the 8 still have some hope and hence more to play for. In terms of talent: Moore, DeGoey, ?.

Don’t think we’re that far away, just need that key forward. With the footy we had early a key forward would have made a difference.

Moore and De Goey are our 2 mid aged talents. In the 6 drafts below them is where we really struggle. IQ is the only one currently tracking to be a top line talent for mine. Others will get there but none have shown it yet.

If we look at our 2 big rivals, who are not among the best lists currently, their youth is much better. Carlton has those 3 high end A grade talents who are 21, 23 and 23. Essendon have Parish, McGrath, Jones, Cox, Reid and Perkins as high draft picks who are established or look the goods. Look through most lists and our kids just have that pedestrian look. Its going to take a long while to get our list back up to a contending level. We have just burned to much of our high end talent and picks over many seasons. Bad decisions and bad luck. We have to pay the price and it will take a while to repay in full.

 

[BuildEmUp]

Really unfamiliar territory with the game still up for grabs going into the last you could see the potential of them running over us. We have nothing to play for whereas Carlton are still in the run for finals as 7th and 8th are still up for grabs. Walsh absolutely tortured us today.

We had some good players Maynard is back to his AA form, Roughy was good on Mckay until the last, Grundy his game is extremely hard to read because geez that passage in the first was unreal 2 kicks lace out for a goal but we were smashed in the 2nd half in the middle absolutely smashed. This comes due to I think as Adams in our only specialist clearance player De Goey was good but he did rack up a lot of cheap 1/2 possessions and didn't really go anywhere. Elliott so dangerous when he gets near it.

I think the places we lost the game were our defence is honestly shambolical sometimes the errors we make coming out are unbelievable under 10's stuff. We actually defend the initial contest extremely well stopping the goal however when getting the ball back we turnover in a 10 times worse position gifting them a goal off a turnover. Also, the one thing that stood out today which absolutely shifted me up the wall was on the last line of defence how many of our defenders and players went up for marks instead of punching the ball through. 4 instances were Maynard, Grundy, Crisp and Magden I don't get you are taught that in under 10s just punch it through. They went up for the mark and were beaten costing us goals each time which is just unforgivable for something so basic.

correct, for example Maynard from back of pack trying to mark over 3 players in front of him and silvagni marks in the square ..simple defence and it is play on .. don't get me wrong I like maynards passion but he continues to brain fade too often - hence he will never get All Australian..

 

[BuildEmUp]

I love the hissy fit this board throws every time we lose. We are rebuilding it’s going to be like this

Look at the positives

Ruscoe looked good down back

Degoey is actually playing as a gun mid

Henry 3 goals looked a player

Noble keeps improving

quaynor will be a long term player


We are in for a long rebuild make no mistake

Maybe not so long - I look at Sydney for inspiration and what can be done ..

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Maybe not so long - I look at Sydney for inspiration and what can be done ..

I think Sydney had a number of first round draft picks allowing them to choose the best talent. Will depend on the calibre of our young guys and how they perform once they settle in.

 

[Gone Critical]

Maybe not so long - I look at Sydney for inspiration and what can be done ..

Funny i look at Sydney and see the mountain we have to climb to catch them. Since the last season we have players on our list that were top 10 picks, 7 drafts ago 2014, Moore and De Goey, Sydney have had rich pickings

That year, 2014, they picked up Heeney for pick 18 as an Academy player. Mills came 2015 at pick 3. They have McDonald, pick 4, Stephens pick 5, Campbell pick 5, Blakey pick 10, Florent , pick 11 as a start off point since that time.

Our best pick still at the club in those six seasons is IQ, pick 13. Swans have had much better access to top end talent in recent years and are a great development club. For us to match them would require our kids to outperform by a long way. A very tall order.

 

[sr36]

Don’t think we’re that far away, just need that key forward. With the footy we had early a key forward would have made a difference.

I thought we marked it really well up forward early. Mihocek and Cameron both took a couple of ripping pack marks and Henry and Elliott were clunking too.

Midfield was and is a bigger issue in my eyes. I can't understand why Crisp seemed to spend so much time in defence.

 

[barrackers]

Moore and De Goey are our 2 mid aged talents. In the 6 drafts below them is where we really struggle. IQ is the only one currently tracking to be a top line talent for mine. Others will get there but none have shown it yet.

If we look at our 2 big rivals, who are not among the best lists currently, their youth is much better. Carlton has those 3 high end A grade talents who are 21, 23 and 23. Essendon have Parish, McGrath, Jones, Cox, Reid and Perkins as high draft picks who are established or look the goods. Look through most lists and our kids just have that pedestrian look. Its going to take a long while to get our list back up to a contending level. We have just burned to much of our high end talent and picks over many seasons. Bad decisions and bad luck. We have to pay the price and it will take a while to repay in full.

Yep, I agree that draft decisions have left us badly placed for that early 20s age range. Essendon have Parish, McGrath and Draper who look good at 23. Jones, Cox, Reid and Perkins though were all recruited in the past 2 drafts. Essendon are probably a year ahead of us in terms of coaching changes and playing the kids. Their 2020 picks have played a lot of games this year and looked ready. That shows that things can turn quickly. We’ve debuted a similar number with less impact. Time will tell if our 2020 picks slid due to a development in a covid affected year or talent.

Carlton look well set with those 3. I have some queries on whether having a stack of money tied up in Williams, Martin and Saad is wise and if that will stop them filling list holes later on.

 

[Horaceg]

Maybe not so long - I look at Sydney for inspiration and what can be done ..

The academy seems to be bearing high end, quality kids, well trained and the game is only getting bigger and better in NSW. There are hundreds of kids going down each year to try out and once they get their hands on them they keep them and the development going. They don't just pick them at 10 years old on pure football ability but test a range of other skills and characteristics.

 

[BuildEmUp]

The academy seems to be bearing high end, quality kids, well trained and the game is only getting bigger and better in NSW. There are hundreds of kids going down each year to try out and once they get their hands on them they keep them and the development going. They don't just pick them at 10 years old on pure football ability but test a range of other skills and characteristics.

and we have a great crop of youngsters from last year .. and Bianco showing great signs, along with a couple of maybe prospects in Nick Daicos and Dib coming ...

 

[sr36]

Funny i look at Sydney and see the mountain we have to climb to catch them. Since the last season we have players on our list that were top 10 picks, 7 drafts ago 2014, Moore and De Goey, Sydney have had rich pickings

That year, 2014, they picked up Heeney for pick 18 as an Academy player. Mills came 2015 at pick 3. They have McDonald, pick 4, Stephens pick 5, Campbell pick 5, Blakey pick 10, Florent , pick 11 as a start off point since that time.

Our best pick still at the club in those six seasons is IQ, pick 13. Swans have had much better access to top end talent in recent years and are a great development club. For us to match them would require our kids to outperform by a long way. A very tall order.

Yep. Mills was picked 2015 and its only this year that he's become a top line mid. Our lack of success in the drafts between 2015-2019 won't fully hit us for a few years. In 2025, blokes from those drafts will be 24-28 and in their prime.

 

[Finnishpie]

Leave WHE out of that conversation mate. He is a quality player, an excellent finisher with the ball and he has a number of good years ahead of him.

Goes missing a bit too much for me. I reckon I'd look at trading him for a good draft pick, if we could get it.

 

[jackcass]

Saw this on Facebook. Interesting read.

The Scouting Report - Round 18 v Collingwood — Blue Abroad

Written by Dan Williams Overview Collingwood comes into this game 15th in the Ladder, with a 5 – 11 win record. Collingwood has gone through an upheaval this year, with an interim coach taking over from Nathan Buckley. Since Robert Harvey has taken over we have seen a return to the glory day

www.blueabroad.com.au

 

[TradeDraft]

Collingwood's next game will be against Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval on July 23. Look to salvage as many victories from the wreckage of the 2021 season as possible. The Magpies have not defeated Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval yet, so hopefully that drought will end on Friday night.

Only game I can see us Possibly winning for rest of the Season is the Hawks and that is a Maybe. We have a Poor Record vs Hawks

 

[Trickster]

I thought we marked it really well up forward early. Mihocek and Cameron both took a couple of ripping pack marks and Henry and Elliott were clunking too.

Midfield was and is a bigger issue in my eyes. I can't understand why Crisp seemed to spend so much time in defence.

Agree we got smashed in clearances and had nobody to close down Walsh. De Goey in middle on him got pantsed in clearances tbh. We need a bull mid, speed through mid and a lock down.

Backline is solid and fwd line with Cameron, Checkers, Billy and Oli seems ok with JDG floating through and McCreery and possibly Ginnivan coming through.

Hopefully the things aren't as bad as they seem quote applies, but geez yesterday hurt!

 

[TradeDraft]

We don't have a Tagger now that Greenwood has Retired

 

[Albert Parker]

Sides on the edge of the 8 still have some hope and hence more to play for. In terms of talent: Moore, DeGoey, ?.

Don’t think we’re that far away, just need that key forward. With the footy we had early a key forward would have made a difference.

Hmm, I'd prefer the Clarkson-coached approach to Hawthorn who took it up to Melbourne, despite them having more to play for.
I'm not buying/accepting the 'they had more to play for' mantra.
Our second half was embarrassing against a very, very ordinary side.

 

[Trickster]

We don't have a Tagger now that Greenwood has Retired

Crisp did that successfully early years for us. Recall him tagging Danger a few times. Reckon he could have been thrown on Walsh. Guess last qtr happened so quick and we were going ok before then. Think he's a reasonable option at times especially given his size and speed.

 

[Robroy22]

We don't have a Tagger now that Greenwood has Retired

Pendles can do that Dave.

 

[Trickster]

Pendles can do that Dave.

Maybe Cripps, not sure he can run around after Walsh and smaller types

 

[Black_White]

It’s been bothering me for 24 hours.
Why, why, why did we capitulate so easily?
Then it struck me. Like a bolt from the blue, the answer was there right in front of me all the time.
No Thomas, no Collingwood!

 

[jackcass]

Hmm, I'd prefer the Clarkson-coached approach to Hawthorn who took it up to Melbourne, despite them having more to play for.
I'm not buying/accepting the 'they had more to play for' mantra.
Our second half was embarrassing against a very, very ordinary side.

The margin between a team on the bottom of the ladder playing their best game, and a team from the top of the ladder playing their worst, is pretty small these days. The form of Melbourne, Richmond and the Weagles at the top, the Hawks, Suns and ourselves at the bottom the case in point.