Preview Round 18 - Melbourne Demons vs Brisbane Lions • Friday 14 July 2023 • 7:50 PM • MCG

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Grasshopper17 said:
Some interesting comments from Jordan Lewis tonight on AFL 360 about the Lions at the MCG. He mentioned that when Hawthorn had their hoodoo against Geelong it was to their benefit when they finally acknowledged it internally, and apparently it was Fages who really drove those conversations.
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But our hoodoo (if you believe the narrative) is against a football oval. I don't see how acknowledging it actually helps. Especially when we won a final there last year.
 
Elixuh said:
But our hoodoo (if you believe the narrative) is against a football oval. I don't see how acknowledging it actually helps. Especially when we won a final there last year.
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One thing I try to bear in mind is that even though it's one team, it's still made up of 23 players. Some have played 12 or 13 games there for 1 win. Others have only played there a couple of times, if at all. Joe and Jack used to play there all the time. Everybody has a different experience of the ground.

For some, maybe you're right: maybe there is no hang up at all. But maybe for others, maybe they get a bit befuddled by the way the wind (mis)behaves inside the stadium. Maybe others struggle to hear the calls from their team mates given the larger crowd size.

Maybe a couple simply feel a bit overawed by playing in front of so many people at such a magnificent and historic venue. Maybe the ball bounces that little bit differently. Maybe the colder air means kicks that make the distance at the Gabba fall slightly short at the G.

There are all these little things that might affect different blokes differently. That's why I can't think it can hurt to talk about it and get that sort of stuff out in the open.

I'm also really pleased that club has an open captain's run at 2:30 tomorrow out on the ground. Makes me wish I'd flown down a day earlier.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
One thing I try to bear in mind is that even though it's one team, it's still made up of 23 players. Some have played 12 or 13 games there for 1 win. Others have only played there a couple of times, if at all. Joe and Jack used to play there all the time. Everybody has a different experience of the ground.

For some, maybe you're right: maybe there is no hang up at all. But maybe for others, maybe they get a bit befuddled by the way the wind (mis)behaves inside the stadium. Maybe others struggle to hear the calls from their team mates given the larger crowd size.

Maybe a couple simply feel a bit overawed by playing in front of so many people at such a magnificent and historic venue. Maybe the ball bounces that little bit differently. Maybe the colder air means kicks that make the distance at the Gabba fall slightly short at the G.

There are all these little things that might affect different blokes differently. That's why I can't think it can hurt to talk about it and get that sort of stuff out in the open.

I'm also really pleased that club has an open captain's run at 2:30 tomorrow out on the ground. Makes me wish I'd flown down a day earlier.
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I think they do routinely talk about those little factors and have done so for years under Fagan, eg pumping out crowd noise during training etc. I think there is also a tipping point where focusing on these differences can be detrimental.
 

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I was at the Semi Final against Melbourne last year and I couldn’t find a hoodoo. I looked everywhere. Nope, no hoodoo.
 
Nunez said:
For those talking hoodoo, please let me know which teams won the most finals at the MCG last year outside of the Premiers?

Us? What do you mean us? We haven't won at the G in 50 years according to some!!!
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150 years wasn’t it? The Lions MCG hoodoo is just lazy journalism.
 
Lyons has been hard done by in a sense because of circumstance.
Elite from when we got him to about round 8 last year
We did lose a few finals with him and regularly lost clearances he was an integral part of the midfield
Polled 23 Brownlow votes and had some really elite performances

But after about round 10-12 last year it was clear our midfield had become incredibly poor at defending from centre clearance. There is vision of goals kicked against us with Neale Lyons and clug 15m behind the opponents waltzing into an open goal.

Lyons was hurt, but his form was that terrible that it took a ‘injury’ for him to be dropped for our first final. Inject dev robbo, berry on ball and some more defensive minded players that could go with others and we won 2 finals including a huge W at the G against Melbourne. A team that absolutely slaughtered us 4 weeks earlier with Lyons in the midfield.

Brisbane listed Lyons as injured but he was playing VFL. He was dropped for finals after playing the entire year.

Fast forward to this season and from what I have seen he is still a pure centre square player. Slow still but very handy when he gets the ball and can dish it out. But he is really fighting with Neale and maybe clug as the offensive centre square creators.

If one of Neale, ash or clug gets hurt then I think Lyons would be an important backup to come in and create some games opportunities. But right now he isn’t replacing the defensive centre square mid spot crafted by Dunkley with dev robbo as a backup.

Lester is a different case altogether 3K as he is versatile and can play a number of roles (tall small etc).

Lyons is a attacking centre bounce midfielder only
 
dmac_55 said:
Lyons has been hard done by in a sense because of circumstance.
Elite from when we got him to about round 8 last year
We did lose a few finals with him and regularly lost clearances he was an integral part of the midfield
Polled 23 Brownlow votes and had some really elite performances

But after about round 10-12 last year it was clear our midfield had become incredibly poor at defending from centre clearance. There is vision of goals kicked against us with Neale Lyons and clug 15m behind the opponents waltzing into an open goal.

Lyons was hurt, but his form was that terrible that it took a ‘injury’ for him to be dropped for our first final. Inject dev robbo, berry on ball and some more defensive minded players that could go with others and we won 2 finals including a huge W at the G against Melbourne. A team that absolutely slaughtered us 4 weeks earlier with Lyons in the midfield.

Brisbane listed Lyons as injured but he was playing VFL. He was dropped for finals after playing the entire year.

Fast forward to this season and from what I have seen he is still a pure centre square player. Slow still but very handy when he gets the ball and can dish it out. But he is really fighting with Neale and maybe clug as the offensive centre square creators.

If one of Neale, ash or clug gets hurt then I think Lyons would be an important backup to come in and create some games opportunities. But right now he isn’t replacing the defensive centre square mid spot crafted by Dunkley with dev robbo as a backup.

Lester is a different case altogether 3K as he is versatile and can play a number of roles (tall small etc).

Lyons is a attacking centre bounce midfielder only
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The point about Lester, dmac, was that people wrote him off with such certainty and with a tone of such mocking authority, now look at him. The lesson is that sometimes people shouldn’t write players off and as Tassie4ever so rightly put it “dance on their graves.” I hasten to add, I don’t think that is what YOU are doing with Lyons, but I would counsel against people writing Lyons off. The man is still a dedicated, highly skilled and ‘in form’ midfielder. I think the Jarryd Lyons story has a bit to go yet and if I was Fagan, I would be looking for ways to structure the team around a core midfield of Neale, Dunkley, Ashcroft AND Lyons. When Lyons was on the ball against West Coast he was awesome at stoppages in particular. Got first hands on the ball and was super clean, getting quick handballs out to teammates and starting repeat forward thrusts.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
What rye said. I think he's a real general in our midfield when it comes to setting up defensively. Not just with his actions but also with his direction and leadership. Being a fresh set of eyes on our setup may have been a positive also.

To me he's an even bigger out than were we to lose a key forward, in fact I'd put his absence only behind Payne and Andrews with regards to players we can least afford to lose.

And with respect Seattle Mariners, I think he's a far bigger loss to us than Oliver is to Melbourne, simply because of that different mindset he brings to our midfield and the ability of others in yours to pick up Oliver's slack.
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Thanks for your response.

Whilst I don’t disagree about your comparison/contrast about Dunkley and Oliver, it is worth mentioning that Melbourne started the season 7-3 with him in the side. Since he’s been on the sidelines they’ve gone 3-3 without him and quite frankly have become a mediocre side of late.
 

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Yeah sounds like Grundy won't play. Lyons stays in with no Dunkley. If Dees continue with Petracca forward and no Oliver we really should win the midfield contest.

Normally at the MCG I am fearful of how we will go and considering our last effort there, that said I think we will win on Friday night. I feel like our defensive structure around the ground has improved ten fold.

Fingers crossed Charlie can regain some form - had a poor three weeks by his high standards.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Also given our lads have a training run tomorrow at the G, and our VFL team has the bye, with some decent detective work our team should be apparent well before 6:20 tomorrow night.

Maybe a slight disadvantage but nothing we shouldn't be able to overcome in and of itself.
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When is it on? I cannot seeanything on the website.
 
A few thoughts;

Defence: limit the stupid mistakes and we should keep them to a low score. With Wilmot back there the balance looks good and if they work hard up the field we should be able to transition

Midfield: Especially if Lyons and Zorko are playing we need to win the clearances and can't allow them to get it to the outside

Forwards: workrate both defensively and to provide options and shift around their spare defenders

Ashcroft: We really miss him in away games. Should be well suited to the ground

Zorko: Maybe play as a high half forward? Clearly his body is holding him back, can't pressure or break away from congestion but his kicking can still be very good

Hipwood: Loves the MCG. Can get on his bike while Daniher plays more defensively on May and Gunston gets busy up the ground

Charlie: Should again be suited to the ground. He'd be the one I try to get space inside 50 for (and hopefully the umps start giving him something)
 
Looks like Grundy's definitely not playing:

Melbourne leaves out Brodie Grundy in selection shakeup

Melbourne has left star ruck recruit Brodie Grundy out of its team for Friday night’s game against Brisbane.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au


Personally I think this makes them more dangerous but then I've always thought Grundy was massively overrated.
 
Tom14 said:
Looks like Grundy's definitely not playing:

Melbourne leaves out Brodie Grundy in selection shakeup

Melbourne has left star ruck recruit Brodie Grundy out of its team for Friday night’s game against Brisbane.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au


Personally I think this makes them more dangerous but then I've always thought Grundy was massively overrated.
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Long term yep I agree. But they’ve based their entire game plan and off-season on these two and now they’re dropping one and moving pieces around the board I think it’s going to be rough finding their feet.
 
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