Autopsy Round 20, 2021: St.Kilda v Carlton

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In all seriousness, get Clarko to the club at the end of the season any way we can and in any role.

Then be prepared for him to take the reigns by about round 4 next year!

Clarkson's don't grow on trees. We need the best people at the club for St Kilda to ever succeed, ones who can wipe away the ongoing malaise.
 

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Max the great said:
He doesn't take us forward mate. Doesn't have it. Reality is if we keep him we don't win anything. Move him on and give this squad a chance
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The old sack the coach when we have a shocker , Ratten did have a shocker today - team selection was base on what I feel he thought he could play anyone and we would win and it has not just been today.
He has had 2 years with this squad and has turned it totally around however this year he has not been able to motivate the squad or set a game plan in place that works even when you take into account the injuries we have had through out the season.

The team has big problems in the midfield as shown today , Crouch and Dunstan get the ball but just dont use it well enough to open play.
Gresham may well solve the problem but we need a guy like Josh Kelly with clean disposal and opens up play.
This is why most probably or wingmen can't get the easy ball , making Hill and Billings look useless.

Then when the oppositions midfield dominate our defense cracks under-pressure.
Howard has done his best and is the backbone of the backline , Wilkie is good but on the right player and he is no key defender , we need to get Paton and Sinclair back with there IQ and foot skills will help alleviate the problem a bit , however we need a McGovern , May , Moore type CHB to make our backline strong.(even a Marcus Adams who still has not signed a contract yet and Moore and Darcy Gardiner are RFA in 2022)

Our forward line will come good when they start getting better forward entries.

We been flogged by the Dogs , Bombers , Richmond round 5 and a few of the other teams but we know when they turn up with the right mindset they can beat anyone but we know we can lose to anyone as well.

We are so close to having our squad just about right , I can smell finals.
 
Looking at the stats there are some baffling numbers there, when you consider how badly we got beaten.

Hitouts 70-11!
Contested possessions 155-132
Clearances 39-36
Inside 50’s 51-44
Marks inside 50 17-10

You’d win possibly as many as 99 games in a hundred with those numbers for those stats in combination.

Yet we didn’t even get close to winning.

Suggests that we fell down enormously in some areas.
 
Munga said:
In all seriousness, get Clarko to the club at the end of the season any way we can and in any role.

Then be prepared for him to take the reigns by about round 4 next year!

Clarkson's don't grow on trees. We need the best people at the club for St Kilda to ever succeed, ones who can wipe away the ongoing malaise.
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Why not, we've got all the other Clarkson era parts in place. How do you reckon he'd get on with Lethlean and co?
 
aussierulesrules said:
Looking at the stats there are some baffling numbers there, when you consider how badly we got beaten.

Hitouts 70-11!
Contested possessions 155-132
Clearances 39-36
Inside 50’s 51-44
Marks inside 50 17-10

You’d win possibly as many as 99 games in a hundred with those numbers for those stats in combination.
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Stats are great, and it shows that we really tried our blessed little hearts out... but stats are even better when they are utilised and are of actual benefit to the team.
 
Let's be very clear Billings is out; he hasn't signed a contract and it's 4 games before the end of the season - he's gone and good riddance.

Personally I'd tip Ross out as well and I've given my reasons countless times on this board. We won't even get anything good for him now, just like Josh Bruce, Jack Steven and so on but I just want him out and better late than never.

We play a dumb tiring style which makes us look like we can beat anyone for about 6 games per year and even if we ever manage to condition the squad to have a whole year of that much energy, it's still a dumb style that is like throwing a bunch of rocks at a nail to get it into the wall rather than just using a hammer.

I don't know whether it's the coaches for the players themselves but something is not happening at training that needs to have an even with the influence have so many players from premiership clubs and that is a real worry. What will it take to train the panic out of our players and train in composure? I'm so disappointed in the short term effects of the Rath appointment that I am just praying there will be a longer term pay off.

We've unearthed some good young players, but Coffield and Clark were good young players, now they're as flaky as the rest of the squad.

We need a massive change in direction and the sad reality is there's no point sacking Ratts now, Clarko + any decent coach will go to either Blues or Pies, Giants or Suns. But we need a clean out.
 
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St Neil said:
Can’t disagree with most of this. Most of those players above are habitually mediocre. Move them on. I’m sick of them. Get more kids in to the team from next year, at least they add energy and enthusiasm. Sharman looks like he will be a nice player. Byrnes and Connolly are going OK. Let’s get more of them.

As for the coach, at the risk of being howled down, we are going nowhere with Ratten. Constantly out coached in games and we get flogged far too often. He is not the man to lead us going forward, but we’ll plod on with him, waste another 12 months and continue with the mediocrity.

We desperately need another key defender and key forward.
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I agree with that.

The thing that frustrates me the most is come Thursday next week those same mediocre players will still be in the side. Kent will still be in the side. Billings will still be in the side. Everyone knows the rest. Dunstan's purple patch is well and truly over and he's back to handing the opposition possession back every time he gets it.

We are the most mentally weak and fragile side in the league. A lot of that is down to coaching. I think there was a significant element of complacency in last night's game. We just thought that we could rock up and take the points in 2nd gear. I couldn't fathom all the optimism in the preview thread, to me this was always a game that St Kilda would lose. Friday night lights, against a team that's copped it in the media all week and with a big name returning from a long lay off, going in as heavy favourites - we always s**t the bed in those types of games. We've copped about 3 too many floggings this year for it to be a coincidence.

On your last point, I would argue we need a classy midfielder more than a key forward. In our midfield, we have one fella with decent disposal (Steele - who else?), the rest are all well below average. Jones, Crouch, Dunstan, Gresham. We can't afford to carry more than 2 of those types on a given night.

Also, the fascination with getting it to Hill when he's under the pump or running to the wrong spots is mind boggling.

A) Hill has to be more clever with his runs
and:
B) The blokes giving it to him should have some more awareness of the situation.
 
Will the real leaders at St Kilda, please stand up, please stand up, please stand up...

Steele rises

Been our problem all year and more evidently towards the business end of our season. Leading by example and being in the leadership group should go hand in hand but not at our club, Steele excluded.

Thoughts on tonights game,

Marshall let Silvagni have more impact them himself which is piss poor in my books. I don't question Marshalls effort, never have so not an effort or ability swipe. I hope he re watches the game as an example of what not to do as your direct opponent does as he pleases.

Brad Crouch is to small and not strong enough in the contest. Needs to hit the weights hard in the off season.

King super with any decent forward entry.

Connolly showing glimpses of serious X factor.

Shaman can do what Kent cannot, kick straight. Knows how to find the ball as well.

To many passengers

Our ins this week while looking good on paper may have hurt our structure. The ability is there but doing the team thing..... I question that.

When we hit the draft, it's either Ben King or the best available 190cm mid with a good build on him.
 
Really feel for Steele.

So apparently we've offered Ross and billings contracts.... great. :rolleyes:

Club is delusional.

Get rid of Ratten. Don't wait another year. He's not the man to take us forward.

Too many games this year we have looked an absolute shambles.

How many more years are we going to waste?

Grow a pair, and make some tough decisions.

Look at our percentage ffs.

Bring in players that use the ball well.

This loss feels like an absolute kick in the guts.

It'll be same shit different day until we get a decent coach. We haven't have one in 10 years ffs.

Get rid of ratten.
 
Sully111 said:
Really feel for Steele.

So apparently we've offered Ross and billings contracts.... great. :rolleyes:

Club is delusional.

Get rid of Ratten. Don't wait another year. He's not the man to take us forward.

Too many games this year we have looked an absolute shambles.

How many more years are we going to waste?

Grow a pair, and make some tough decisions.

Look at our percentage ffs.

Bring in players that use the ball well.

This loss feels like an absolute kick in the guts.

It'll be same sh*t different day until we get a decent coach. We haven't have one in 10 years ffs.

Get rid of ratten.
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Have not been following the news. Hopefully they are three month contracts where the only provisio is they find a new club by October and get us two second rounders in return.
 
tomjoad said:
Why not, we've got all the other Clarkson era parts in place. How do you reckon he'd get on with Lethlean and co?
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Yeah, who knows? But I would be surprised and disappointed if we don't even try for Clarkson, if he still has the passion to go on.
He was our assistant coach in '99.

He's coming home :sweatsmile:
 
aussierulesrules said:
Looking at the stats there are some baffling numbers there, when you consider how badly we got beaten.

Hitouts 70-11!
Contested possessions 155-132
Clearances 39-36
Inside 50’s 51-44
Marks inside 50 17-10

You’d win possibly as many as 99 games in a hundred with those numbers for those stats in combination.

Yet we didn’t even get close to winning.

Suggests that we fell down enormously in some areas.
Click to expand...

Cant sleep so I thought I would give my 2 cents at answering that. For me it comes down to kicking ability, confidence and decision making

Group 1: Dunstan, Ross & Billings
Collectively more than 325 games, 200+ goals, almost 80 brownlow votes and multiple B+F awards. They are all squarely in their footballing prime

Tonight 72 disposals. One kicked @ 20% kicking efficiency, one at 45% and one at 70% (and don't start me on the 40+ metre airballs to no-one that got him to 70%)

Group 2: Byrnes, Connelly & Clark
Collectively much less than 100 games, about 10 goals, 0 brownlow votes and never got close to a B+F

Tonight 48 disposals. Byrnes 17 @ 82%. Clark 85% DE. Connelly 13 kicks @ 69% KE (while biting off some seriously ambitious running efforts)

I think some of us forget just how badly this place was Richoed. You just have to look at what Connelly does with the ball after running away from an opponent compared to Ross to see the stark difference in kicking ability, confidence and decision making

So for me the problem isn't that we dominated the stats you highlighted. That is a good thing. The problem is who accumulated those numbers, and the decisions they made when they actually had the ball. It is not an accident that Weitering and Jones had 20 intercept possessions between them (mostly from our 51 entries). I think the last few weeks has reminded us that having players like Ross or Dunstan with high CBA's and lots of disposals is just not a recipe for winning football games

So moving forward, I guess that means we just have to back the kids over some of our more senior players. Even up until 2 weeks ago I was arguing against the 'trade Billings' crew (and I still know he is playing injured and how good his best is). But after tonight, I am starting to think that letting our FA's (Billings, Ross and Dunstan) walk might be the best thing for the club. Perhaps keep one for institutional memory and seniority. Just please for the love of all that is good, don't let that one be Ross
 
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What the hell is going on with membrey? Playing as a roaming wingman, taking marks on the back flank, then having max left 3 on 1 up front. Bizzare. He is having a terrible year. His decision making up the ground is horrendous and he should be stationed close to goal where he can take good grabs. I know it was Higgins first game back but I have seen nothing from him this year to suggest he is any better then Kent, butler, lonie and long. Always seems to kick his couple of goals when the game is dead and buried. Playing crouch on a wing is just bizarre coaching, does his best work in the clinches and was getting destroyed on the spread tonight. I don’t rate dougal as much as others but him going down exposed Wilkie to McKay who had a field day. Bizzare selecting hunter tonight when Carlton only had one ruck, he is not up to it. So many questions to be asked if coaching. The way billings is tracking we would be lucky to get a late second rounder for him, but at the same time I can’t stand watching him anymore. Dunstan back to his old ways of being in space and absolutely butchering the footy, if we can get something for him take it and run. Jones the same but at least he has a bit of pace. Clark’s first game back and a shame he was concussed but he and coffield are quickly becoming exactly what every one of our other first round picks become, uninspiring average footballers. He should be showing more by now, Byrnes and Connolly are having more impact on games.
 
Having Carlton get up the ladder over us is a failure for the club this season. We need midfield class. Steele is tough and a great worker, but we still lack poise in the middle. Crouch accumulates, but doesn't hurt the opposition, and Jones is also in the hard worker category, but plays a bit selfish and needs to dish the ball off quicker to others. Like the Crows and PA games, their midfield decided the game in the end. Carlton deliberately played the fast movement of the ball style of game and continually caught our plodders off guard. Probably the worst team defensive effort this season. ** edit- Our small forward situation has failed this season.
 
Yeah we aren’t sacking a coach who won a final last year and had our injuries so you can all bench that idea.
Credit to the Blues though, they just put body on body in the ruck contests and walked away with the pill for 18 goals.
That kind of accuracy tells me they were getting the ball in front of the sticks and not out wide, which indicates a lack of pressure up field on the ball carrier.
Im angry and frustrated but so what? It’s only footy. I can watch the remaining games with zero expectations and maybe enjoy some of the young kids coming through (assuming we play them).
 

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Autopsy Round 20, 2021: St.Kilda v Carlton

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