Preview Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 30th July, 4:35PM AEST

[PoppedCorn]

So hanners played flat out at 100% in his last vfl game and played at least 80% game time....and contributed highly in all the stats that mattered ???

If the answers yes
Then come on down big boy!!


If not why the **** are we playing him

Oh yeah
Derrrr

Onfield leadership

 

[MCG-Unit]

I see what crouch does but my point is we have to many in our midfield that are similar. To many that’s not a coaching issue it’s a recruiting issue but when you are a nobody club you pretty much have to take what you get. Would I swap Guthrie and crouch. I’m a heartbeat. He would improve our midfield with that swap. Crouch as an individual is a good to very good player but the mix isn’t great.

Good discussion Plugger man. Disagree here. I would never consider trading Crouch for Guthrie, not even slightly.
You really think Guthrie is twice the player Crouch is? Not what I've seen of them

 

[gringo2011]

Playing to "not win" is why Melbourne was so s**t for 10+ years.

Yes and no. There was liberal doses of incompetence as well. Poor drafting, the wrong coaches, selling of their good players for picks that they burnt and some bad luck with the loss of Stynes really the start of a dark period. Players like Jurrah that could have been anything left and the rest is history.

 

[gringo2011]

Good discussion Plugger man. Disagree here. I would never consider trading Crouch for Guthrie, not even slightly.
You really think Guthrie is twice the player Crouch is? Not what I've seen of them

Guthrie is a good player, he's got a bit of zip and can play outside mid but he's not the player he was a few years back that got big numbers and was one of their best. These days he's still good but probably playing a role.

2022 Crouch is a gun. His tackling game is huge now and his kicking and ability to run have improved a lot. They probably aren't miles apart on quality but unless you were picking for needs there is no way you'd swap them. He's quietly playing the best footy he's ever played.

 

[lewdogs]

Guthrie is a good player, he's got a bit of zip and can play outside mid but he's not the player he was a few years back that got big numbers and was one of their best. These days he's still good but probably playing a role.

2022 Crouch is a gun. His tackling game is huge now and his kicking and ability to run have improved a lot. They probably aren't miles apart on quality but unless you were picking for needs there is no way you'd swap them. He's quietly playing the best footy he's ever played.

Crouch has been great this year. He really stepped up when Steele was out too.

I think the issue in our midfield lies in what happens after Crouch, it really drops away. Ross probably the third best, a solid citizen but nothing special. Gresh so inconsistent. Jones has disappeared this year. That's why we'd love a few others to step up.

 

[Diehard Saint]

People forget that he’s actually a good player. It’s not like he’s not been playing cause he’s been on drugs and getting injured in bar fights. He’s as unlucky as Paddy Mccartin. Just injury after injury. Do we hate paddy mccartin?

Nobody "hates" Hanners. That’s a ridiculous premise.

However, in his tenure at the club he's basically been irrelevant because he has played so few games.
So because he helped us get into a final two years ago and has basically played 2 vfl games since then, you think he's an automatic in?

And if we have to rely on a guy who hasn’t played a senior game this entire season to get us into the finals, just what does that say about our team.

Windy stood up big time last week. I’d rather see Owens or Connolly in instead.

 

[austinnn]

A History Of St Kilda Football Club's Number 10 Jumper, 2012-2022

Background:
Steven Baker wore No.10 for most of his 203 games, including 11 finals. He was also suspended for 28 matches and achieved notoriety (and a record suspension at that time of of 7 matches) for his role in The Jeff Farmer

Jeff Farmer

Age

47

Ht

175cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

1.6

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.2

3star

Incident of 2007. He was an infamous roughnut who played on or around the line of fair play for much of his career. The wearer o the number 10 previously to him was Peter "Spida" Everitt, notorious for his role in the racial sledging of Scott Chisholm.

Stats:
Since Baker ”retired" in 2011, 3 players have worn the 10, or should I say had the number 10 locker, because there hasn't been a whole lot of suiting up going on.

Those 3 players are Daniel Markworth who had it from 2012 to 2015, Nathan Freeman

Nathan Freeman

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

(2016-2018) and Daniel Hanneberry (2019-present).

Markworth has hardly been worth marking going from the media available online which has hardly any info about him, but I remember him as a promising young player who, despite studying a double degree at the time and being a nice well-presented young lad, was always injured. Out of the 88 games the Saints played during his time at the club he played 0 (zero).

Markworth was finally given up on and we found a new mark worth the prestigious number 10. Freeman was a top 10 pick for Collingwood but was also injured constantly. St Kilda thought we'd wave our fairy dust on him and make him right, but we'd bought our fairy dust from the same supplier who supplies most of our merchandise, so it wasn't up to snuff, in fact it probably WAS snuff. Out of the 66 possible matches he could have played, Freeman played 2 (two) - both losses, both right at the end of the season and the end sadly of his AFL career - and spent much of the rest injured, returning from injury or getting match fitness: such is life for a free man.

After Freeman was disposed with, we gleefully snared Sydney Swans big shot Daniel Hanneberry to jump into the jumper that has been worn previously by the likes of Cazaly, Mohr and Ditteritch. His story isn't over yet, but during his time with the club, St Kilda has played 82 including 2 finals, and of those 82, Dan has played in 15 matches including those finals. 7 of those were wins including one final, and in nearly all of those 15 matches, Hanneberry was in the top 5 Saints players in terms of stats.

TLR
2012-2022 St Kilda: 236 games
2012-2022 St Kilda number 10: 17 matches - 7 wins, 10 losses - 6 goals, 3 behinds

Let's hope the cursed number 10 has a massive reversal of fortune, because really, it deserves a lot better treatment from the footy gods. I really hope it starts against the Hawks this weekend.


The full history of the jumper up to the Freeman era is detailed here

The No. 10

Nathan Freeman's number has played an important part in St Kilda's story.

www.saints.com.au

 

[BrutThough]

Nobody "hates" Hanners. That’s a ridiculous premise.

However, in his tenure at the club he's basically been irrelevant because he has played so few games.
So because he helped us get into a final two years ago and has basically played 2 vfl games since then, you think he's an automatic in?

And if we have to rely on a guy who hasn’t played a senior game this entire season to get us into the finals, just what does that say about our team.

Windy stood up big time last week. I’d rather see Owens or Connolly in instead.

We have 2 mid types go out injured this week. Hanners has been the best mid at Sandy the past 2 weeks. The season is very much alive.

There is no reason to not pick him this week.

 

[PoppedCorn]

There's reasons not to pick him this week

 

[chris_h_11]

You’re either taking the pi$$ or you’re Simon Leathlean

Don't get me wrong, the deal we gave Hanners was awful, we've paid dearly for a bloke to sit in the stands for 4 years. But that doesn't make any difference to who's in our best 22 this week, the guy is fit and is playing well in the VFL, he should play.

Anyone suggesting he shouldn't play BECAUSE he's been injured for 4 years is a fool.

 

[gringo2011]

Crouch has been great this year. He really stepped up when Steele was out too.

I think the issue in our midfield lies in what happens after Crouch, it really drops away. Ross probably the third best, a solid citizen but nothing special. Gresh so inconsistent. Jones has disappeared this year. That's why we'd love a few others to step up.

I'd say Ross has been brilliant this year. Jones has been poor but getting Gresham back was huge. In player ratings Ross and Gresham sit at 56 and 58. That sits them above Rozee, Tom Green, Lipinski, Gulden, Shiel, Taranto, Serong etc. All players having excellent years.

Crouch (12), Steele (44), Ross and Gresham should put us on level footing or better with most midfields except probably Carlton and the Dogs.

It's really bizarre that so many players have stepped up this year but seen very little ladder gain.

Battle has also come from nowhere to become a top 100 player and we have a proper star quality player in Sinclair. Most sides see the rapid player improvement turn into wins.

 

[lewdogs]

I'd say Ross has been brilliant this year. Jones has been poor but getting Gresham back was huge. In player ratings Ross and Gresham sit at 56 and 58. That sits them above Rozee, Tom Green, Lipinski, Gulden, Shiel, Taranto, Serong etc. All players having excellent years.

Crouch (12), Steele (44), Ross and Gresham should put us on level footing or better with most midfields except probably Carlton and the Dogs.

It's really bizarre that so many players have stepped up this year but seen very little ladder gain.

Battle has also come from nowhere to become a top 100 player and we have a proper star quality player in Sinclair. Most sides see the rapid player improvement turn into wins.

I guess it has turned into wins as we are the same number of wins as last year and better percentage. Here's hoping it can turn into three more and finals.

 

[Sully111]

Our ball use, decision making, and delivery inside 50 has been a hot mess.

I'd roll the dice with Hanners because he's a cut above in those areas.

If we're a chance to salvage this season, let's throw what we've got at it. If he blows a calf in the first quarter, so be it. (<--- yes I've left that open for some of the more colourful among us)

Success this season is highly unlikely. I was in the just play the kids camp... but hanners might add the class we're sorely lacking. Let's go out swinging.

 

[gringo2011]

I guess it has turned into wins as we are the same number of wins as last year and better percentage. Here's hoping it can turn into three more and finals.

We could hardly find 18 fit players for large parts of 2021.

 

[plugger66]

Good discussion Plugger man. Disagree here. I would never consider trading Crouch for Guthrie, not even slightly.
You really think Guthrie is twice the player Crouch is? Not what I've seen of them

He suits our midfield much more. It’s about balance. We get fixated on stats. Crouch is a very good player but with Steele and Ross also in there it’s makes us to same same.

 

[malevu]

It has been disappointing but is it really hard to fathom? Look at the teams we've played they're almost all good. We lost form and others gained it, again it's really disappointing but we've been losing to good sides. Here's hoping we can get some form back and have a dip at finals but I honestly don't think they'd be worried about Ratts, they'd be worried about how we improve the list to make a bigger jump in the future. Good signs from Windy and Owens in that regard.

I think overall we are better than last year. Our draw was rated by commentators as just about the hardest in the comp. Mainly because of double up games against Geelong, Swans, Brisbane and Freo. Trouble is that three of those games are still to come and we were ordinary against Freo at Marvel.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He suits our midfield much more. It’s about balance. We get fixated on stats. Crouch is a very good player but with Steele and Ross also in there it’s makes us to same same.

Steele is the only above average ball winner /clearance player if you take out Crouch . Gresham our next best.
Seb has tried, but he isn't that player.

Neither is Guthrie, who is more like a poor man's Sinclair.

 

[sauce_head]

I remember talking to a West Coast supporting mate of mine before our game against Freo in R23 last year. I said something along the lines of not really giving a s**t if we won or not because a loss would give us a pick before them. He did not relate to that kind of thinking at all, said the point is to win every single game you play, that's how you build a winning culture at the club. It's stuck with me since, reckon there might be something to be said about the way members set expectations of success - they've won four flags since 1987 and we've got one since 1897.

Think that is probably more around their economic advantage of being the first AFL club in WA, their alleged use of growth hormones before other clubs and their statistically significant free kick advantage when playing at home, more than anything.

But playing to win is also important!

 

[plugger66]

Steele is the only above average ball winner /clearance player if you take out Crouch . Gresham our next best.
Seb has tried, but he isn't that player.

Neither is Guthrie, who is more like a poor man's Sinclair.

Who fluked 18 votes in the Brownlow last year. We must watch different players. If it’s about clearance let’s play bytel over Ross or get Matt crouch. It’s not just about that. You have to be able to have a certain amount of mids who can also run with the ball. Anyway it’s a waste of time who we think is better. Guthrie plays at Geelong and crouch plays with us. You must be in the camp of us having a very good midfield. I’m far away from that. He actually only has one less clearance a game than crouch. And half less than steele this season. It’s hardly earth shattering.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Anyone suggesting he shouldn't play BECAUSE he's been injured for 4 years is a fool.

EXACTLY. Whether or not he's picked this week I certainly hope the selectors don't have the same silly vindicative biases against certain players.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Who fluked 18 votes in the Brownlow last year. We must watch different players. If it’s about clearance let’s play bytel over Ross or get Matt crouch. It’s not just about that. You have to be able to have a certain amount of mids who can also run with the ball. Anyway it’s a waste of time who we think is better. Guthrie plays at Geelong and crouch plays with us. You must be in the camp of us having a very good midfield. I’m far away from that. He actually only has one less clearance a game than crouch. And half less than steele this season. It’s hardly earth shattering.

maybe he has Cam Guthrie confused with his dud brother Zach

 

[Diehard Saint]

EXACTLY. Whether or not he's picked this week I certainly hope the selectors don't have the same silly vindicative biases against certain players.

First we’re “hating” him, and then we’re “vindictive”.
Hyperbole much?

Everyone who has posted that they don’t necessarily think he should be selected has stated their reasons, and whether you agree with them or not it does not follow that people with a different opinion actually “hate” him.
In fact, I doubt anyone actually hates any player.

Seriously, we’re not in primary school.

 

[gringo2011]

I think overall we are better than last year. Our draw was rated by commentators as just about the hardest in the comp. Mainly because of double up games against Geelong, Swans, Brisbane and Freo. Trouble is that three of those games are still to come and we were ordinary against Freo at Marvel.

We are around the level of Sydney and Freo. Not much under Geelong and Brisbane. We should have at least been comfortably in the bottom half of the 8 after the fast start. That second half of the year was just rubbish. It's not going to get easier. We have to step up.

 

[gringo2011]

First we’re “hating” him, and then we’re “vindictive”.
Hyperbole much?

Everyone who has posted that they don’t necessarily think he should be selected has stated their reasons, and whether you agree with them or not it does not follow that people with a different opinion actually “hate” him.
In fact, I doubt anyone actually hates any player.

Seriously, we’re not in primary school.

Well I hate him, he smells like sour milk and his permanent grin makes him look like troll face.



Only joking don't pick on me just because I'm mean.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Well I hate him, he smells like sour milk and his permanent grin makes him look like troll face.



Only joking don't pick on me just because I'm mean.

Funnily enough, I might just have picked up on the fact that you were joking without you having to give me the heads up.