Preview Round 20, 2022: St.Kilda v Hawthorn - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 30th July, 4:35PM AEST

Who Wins?

  • Saints

    Votes: 28 59.6%
  • Hawks

    Votes: 19 40.4%

  • Total voters
    47

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First we’re “hating” him, and then we’re “vindictive”.
Hyperbole much?

Everyone who has posted that they don’t necessarily think he should be selected has stated their reasons, and whether you agree with them or not it does not follow that people with a different opinion actually “hate” him.
In fact, I doubt anyone actually hates any player.

Seriously, we’re not in primary school.
go take a look at facebook once in a while. as soon as hanners comes up people get pretty hyperbolic themselves about him. Though I admit I probably used too strong a wording on this forum. Have been browsing the facebook pages when Bigfooty is quiet and its really been melting my brain
 
go take a look at facebook once in a while. as soon as hanners comes up people get pretty hyperbolic themselves about him. Though I admit I probably used too strong a wording on this forum. Have been browsing the facebook pages when Bigfooty is quiet and its really been melting my brain
Well that’s your first mistake!

”Thou shalt not read about footy (or pretty much anything else) on Facebook” is the 11th commandment.
 
go take a look at facebook once in a while. as soon as hanners comes up people get pretty hyperbolic themselves about him. Though I admit I probably used too strong a wording on this forum. Have been browsing the facebook pages when Bigfooty is quiet and its really been melting my brain


Yeah, I don't look. It's like an unhinged frontier. You'd think putting your name to it would shame you out of it. Much better here where no-one knows that you're an awful person.
 

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Yeah, I don't look. It's like an unhinged frontier. You'd think putting your name to it would shame you out of it. Much better here where no-one knows that you're an awful person.
And you may even be sitting next to them at the footy for all you know…
 
Hannebery comes in. Honestly don’t understand the people who don’t want him to play. Is it because you resent him? He’s a class ahead, a leader on the field, and has performed well enough to earn a spot given our outs. Let the man play FFS.

Season’s far from over, this is not the time to adopt a losers mentality and just focus on this years draft pick, or conserving players for next year. Our next flag isn’t just about whose on our list. If anything it will be more of a reflection about culture, mentality and perseverance. You don’t get that by constantly trying to adapt to the future and being ultra conservative.

Winners have a winning mentality regardless of the stakes, contexts and consequences.

If we have two or more changes, I think one spot should go to Hannebery (if he’s ready) and one to a kid, probably Owens or NAS. Bring in all 3 if you like, idc, I wouldn’t even mind a Bytel in for byrnes (doubt it happens but still) whatever is going to be our strongest and most balanced team.

Bringing in Hanners does not compromise growing our youth. And if he’s fit enough, it won’t comprise our best 22 either. If anything, his presence will aid in the development of both.

This will be a contentious statement no doubt, but it’s a luxury to be able to replace an injured Gresham and Billings with Dan Hannebery and one of NAS/Bytel/Owens. Not to mention Highmore and Long are there as well.

Idk, I just think this is one of those moments where you can throw the towel in and go into the existential dread of a saints fan, OR, you can stick up for your side and its players, and support what is hopefully a great effort from here on out, riding into the next season regardless of if we make finals or not. I’d love to see Hannebery in the side, I think he’ll add a different flavour in place of Billings for example. It’s like adding Clark back into the side.

Oh and on that point. Me thinks Clark has a big game this weekend. His last “wow” factor game was against the hawks at marvel in 2021, and he hasn’t missed a beat since his compound fracture. I’m quietly confident he steps up with Gresh/Billings out.

I fully agree with this.
Also, your attack at a premiership does not begin with pre-season. Changing infield culture and confidence can start next match.
I am hoping a strong Hanners on field will help the growth in knowledge and confidence of all the players which will help build belief

Wasn’t that the case before we gained real momentum 12 or so years ago?



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Who fluked 18 votes in the Brownlow last year. We must watch different players. If it’s about clearance let’s play bytel over Ross or get Matt crouch. It’s not just about that. You have to be able to have a certain amount of mids who can also run with the ball. Anyway it’s a waste of time who we think is better. Guthrie plays at Geelong and crouch plays with us. You must be in the camp of us having a very good midfield. I’m far away from that. He actually only has one less clearance a game than crouch. And half less than steele this season. It’s hardly earth shattering.
7 more than Dunstan? Tim Minchin looks good with a star studded team around him, a high tide lifts all boats.
In a mid table team like the Saints he would struggle big time.
 
Guthrie is a good player, he's got a bit of zip and can play outside mid but he's not the player he was a few years back that got big numbers and was one of their best. These days he's still good but probably playing a role.

2022 Crouch is a gun. His tackling game is huge now and his kicking and ability to run have improved a lot. They probably aren't miles apart on quality but unless you were picking for needs there is no way you'd swap them. He's quietly playing the best footy he's ever played.
Will probably come in the top 3 in the BnF
 
It looks like Gresham is gone for the year so gives you guys a real chance. Without Jones as well we will look pretty stodgy and one paced.

Your form is much better recently as well. I'm not feeling as confident as I was a few days ago.

Will probably come in the top 3 in the BnF
We have 2 very good midfielders in Steele and Crouch but we need that midfielder who can break open play and also be dangerous around goals.
On Sunday we saw a glimpse of how Windhager can play and looks he is going to be special , Owens is the other - really feel these 2 are going to be stars of the future.

With these 2 kids and a good mid picked in free agency we should be in a very good position for many years.
 
I fully agree with this.
Also, your attack at a premiership does not begin with pre-season. Changing infield culture and confidence can start next match.
I am hoping a strong Hanners on field will help the growth in knowledge and confidence of all the players which will help build belief

Wasn’t that the case before we gained real momentum 12 or so years ago?



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
With Gresham out with Billings it is going to be interesting who plays this week - Hannerbery for Billings / Bytel or Owens for Gresham.
 
I remember talking to a West Coast supporting mate of mine before our game against Freo in R23 last year. I said something along the lines of not really giving a s**t if we won or not because a loss would give us a pick before them. He did not relate to that kind of thinking at all, said the point is to win every single game you play, that's how you build a winning culture at the club. It's stuck with me since, reckon there might be something to be said about the way members set expectations of success - they've won four flags since 1987 and we've got one since 1897.
Plugger, myself and a few others have been steadfast in our adherence to this basic sporting concept for a number of years now.

A winning culture is a priceless commodity that cannot be cynically abused for the sake of the shortcut to success.

Our club is behind the eight-ball historically in this area and we absolutely cannot afford to compromise on this element if we are truly aiming for success - no matter what the cost.
 
7 more than Dunstan? Tim Minchin looks good with a star studded team around him, a high tide lifts all boats.
In a mid table team like the Saints he would struggle big time.
Well again all I can say is some have a different opinion of Guthrie than myself. I think he is nearly their best mid. Get enough contested ball and clearances so I’m not sure he is relying on others. Anyway as I said if our midfield has all these very good players then obviously it’s the coach. I don’t believe our midfield has anywhere near the right balance. I think the midfield is pretty much the standard of where we sit on the ladder. Good individually but average as a group. I think they would love to play gresh mainly forward but due to the same same and the lack of ability for 3 to play elsewhere he plays more in the middle than they would would like.
 

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We have 2 very good midfielders in Steele and Crouch but we need that midfielder who can break open play and also be dangerous around goals.
On Sunday we saw a glimpse of how Windhager can play and looks he is going to be special , Owens is the other - really feel these 2 are going to be stars of the future.

With these 2 kids and a good mid picked in free agency we should be in a very good position for many years.


Gresham literally does that. I still stand by our midfield being good enough as individuals to match anyone these days. We could do with depth and more quality rotations into the guts never hurts any side. We always have the option of sending someone like Jones to HBF and putting Sinclair on ball. Against Freo he took a couple of balls out of the centre of the ground, carried the ball inside 50 and kicked a brilliant goal and set one up.

Imagine having that multiple times a game. To me someone like Matt Crouch would be fine if we can't get hold of someone better. It gives us extra depth and he's quality. As the kids come on he's starting to finish up.
 
Plugger, myself and a few others have been steadfast in our adherence to this basic sporting concept for a number of years now.

A winning culture is a priceless commodity that cannot be cynically abused for the sake of the shortcut to success.

Our club is behind the eight-ball historically in this area and we absolutely cannot afford to compromise on this element if we are truly aiming for success - no matter what the cost.


Plenty of sides have done a light tanking and done quick rebounds. What hurts is getting into a failure cycle. Clubs like us who have had horrible periods of mediocrity don't have that luxury and unlike efficiently run clubs we always have a danger of stalling and not being able to get started again.

A side like Collingwood can have an injury plagued year and book all the injured guys in for surgery and come back hard the next year. North, St Kilda nd historically Melbourne have fans so impatient for some signs of life you also get pressure to show improvement.

A well managed tank can be a strategy that works well but it's not something we can really do unless we have faith that we are coming hard next year. I doubt even the most confident administrator at St Kilda believes that we are a sure thing. Also signing Ratts means that we have to put in our best performances to save face.
 
Well again all I can say is some have a different opinion of Guthrie than myself. I think he is nearly their best mid. Get enough contested ball and clearances so I’m not sure he is relying on others. Anyway as I said if our midfield has all these very good players then obviously it’s the coach. I don’t believe our midfield has anywhere near the right balance. I think the midfield is pretty much the standard of where we sit on the ladder. Good individually but average as a group. I think they would love to play gresh mainly forward but due to the same same and the lack of ability for 3 to play elsewhere he plays more in the middle than they would would like.


He probably is their best mid but that just reinforces my point. They aren't a stacked midfield. They are an adequate midfield. Their best talent is in defence and up forward.

Our midfield isn't making the most of itself so you either blame the players or the coaches. Carlton have an over supply of inside mids and it seems to have not hindered them.

Go and rewatch the Sydney v Saints game, watch their mids set up. They have set plays. They will sacrifice their own run to hold and scrag to free a team mate when the ball goes in a particular area. We just all run at one ball. We look like under 9s with a very confused system.

They do it in defence too, I would look at all of the guys under Ratts and find some strategists. Rath probably needs to go if he's our strategist because it's certainly not working and he's hard a good run at implementing some of it. I'll leave you with one of his inspirational quotes.

“Our philosophy, I suppose, is that it’s a game, so it should be played,” Rath added.

 
Well again all I can say is some have a different opinion of Guthrie than myself. I think he is nearly their best mid. Get enough contested ball and clearances so I’m not sure he is relying on others. Anyway as I said if our midfield has all these very good players then obviously it’s the coach. I don’t believe our midfield has anywhere near the right balance. I think the midfield is pretty much the standard of where we sit on the ladder. Good individually but average as a group. I think they would love to play gresh mainly forward but due to the same same and the lack of ability for 3 to play elsewhere he plays more in the middle than they would would like.
Well if we got him, and he proved to be a great player, I would be wrong in my assessment of a footballer which is not unusual.
Unfortunately won't be proven right or wrong because he is never coming.
 
He probably is their best mid but that just reinforces my point. They aren't a stacked midfield. They are an adequate midfield. Their best talent is in defence and up forward.

Our midfield isn't making the most of itself so you either blame the players or the coaches. Carlton have an over supply of inside mids and it seems to have not hindered them.

Go and rewatch the Sydney v Saints game, watch their mids set up. They have set plays. They will sacrifice their own run to hold and scrag to free a team mate when the ball goes in a particular area. We just all run at one ball. We look like under 9s with a very confused system.

They do it in defence too, I would look at all of the guys under Ratts and find some strategists. Rath probably needs to go if he's our strategist because it's certainly not working and he's hard a good run at implementing some of it. I'll leave you with one of his inspirational quotes.

“Our philosophy, I suppose, is that it’s a game, so it should be played,” Rath added.

Do you know what the funniest thing about that article is?

"Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy."
 
Our midfield isn't making the most of itself so you either blame the players or the coaches. Carlton have an over supply of inside mids and it seems to have not hindered them.

Go and rewatch the Sydney v Saints game, watch their mids set up. They have set plays. They will sacrifice their own run to hold and scrag to free a team mate when the ball goes in a particular area. We just all run at one ball. We look like under 9s with a very confused system.
I personally mainly blame the coaches. We currently have Ben McGlynn as our midfield coach, who played at Hawthorn and Sydney for 10 years, mainly as a small forward/tagger. He moved to an assistant coach for 2022 after being in charge of stoppages in 2021, previously being the small forward mentor. Think about our midfielders of the 90/2000's. Hayes and Harvs. Both have been coaching, Hayes as midfield coach at GWS who had arguably the best midfield throughout their good years, and Harvs who stepped up to Collingwood coach last year. Why don't we have a look at either of them as the proper mid coach as they will be experienced, tactical and a major improvement
 
Do you know what the funniest thing about that article is?

"Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy."
So you would rather them to Marcus Windhager, Jack Higgins, and Sinclair off half back? Obviously we got better players to play the same roles.

Not rocket surgery
 
Barring a 5 minute burst on rare occassions, i can't see why we would even entertain moving Sinclair from HBF he saves at least 3 - 5 goals weekly & doe's a lot of hard running to protect the back half of contests, he also breaks lines & del the footy 9/10 times we have a winnins their leave it.
 
He probably is their best mid but that just reinforces my point. They aren't a stacked midfield. They are an adequate midfield. Their best talent is in defence and up forward.

Our midfield isn't making the most of itself so you either blame the players or the coaches. Carlton have an over supply of inside mids and it seems to have not hindered them.

Go and rewatch the Sydney v Saints game, watch their mids set up. They have set plays. They will sacrifice their own run to hold and scrag to free a team mate when the ball goes in a particular area. We just all run at one ball. We look like under 9s with a very confused system.

They do it in defence too, I would look at all of the guys under Ratts and find some strategists. Rath probably needs to go if he's our strategist because it's certainly not working and he's hard a good run at implementing some of it. I'll leave you with one of his inspirational quotes.

“Our philosophy, I suppose, is that it’s a game, so it should be played,” Rath added.

No worries
 
Barring a 5 minute burst on rare occassions, i can't see why we would even entertain moving Sinclair from HBF he saves at least 3 - 5 goals weekly & doe's a lot of hard running to protect the back half of contests, he also breaks lines & del the footy 9/10 times we have a winnins their leave it.
Exactly. He is the perfect modern half back.
 
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