Preview Round 3, 2018: Richmond v Hawthorn, 8 April 2018, 1.10pm @ MCG

[grumbleguts]

Fair enough.

I'd think that often the phrase 'a shot on goal' is used for one that is on target and would go through unless prevented by an interception or save. In games like soccer with a goalie it's quite reasonable to talk about what would go through unless saved/intercepted, ie skill-wise accurate kicks giving credible chance of goal.

I suspect the usage has come across from such sports.

However we also allow on to be sometimes used interchangeable with upon, where the certainty of accuracy is not assumed and the emphasis is on the barrage. I can rain four blows upon/on my foe, where two go wide, one is blocked, and one strikes home. Similarly the Bismark can fire three times on the Hood without a hit. On can clearly indicate close proximity without contact, perilously close, whereas at doesn't indicate such proximity.

The Bismark fires 3 shots AT the Hood. The ones ON the Hood hit it. That's my point, which I concede you understand. But the phrase shots on goal have no place in AFL.

 

[tige19]

Explains the success of “pharmacologically enhanced” athletes like Gatlin

Defying human nature that bloke.. Usain Bolt was getting slower and slower hence he retires at 30, Gatlin is simply cheating.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Defying human nature that bloke.. Usain Bolt was getting slower and slower hence he retires at 30, Gatlin is simply cheating.

The average age of the 100m winner is almost 30 at Olympic level if you go back to about 1980. It is late 30's where speed starts to drop off noticeably.

Soccer players whilst only playing 100 ish minutes (with only one break at half time) cover about the same metres per minute as AFL players and a lot can play into their late 30's at an elite level. They do a lot more repeat sprints in general than AFL players as well. Someone like Messi who is 31 in a couple of months uses his elite acceleration and speed to create many of his goal scoring opportunities. He isn't going anywhere for at least 6-7 years at the top level. The fact is in a lot of sports where short bursts of acceleration and speed, mixed with endurance are required, a lot of the better or best athletes are able to continue until their late 30's now days with modern sports science and recovery practices. John Isner just won his first even Masters 1000 tournament and is 33 in less than 3 weeks time.

 

[threesixpio]

 

[tige19]

The average age of the 100m winner is almost 30 at Olympic level if you go back to about 1980. It is late 30's where speed starts to drop off noticeably.

Soccer players whilst only playing 100 ish minutes (with only one break at half time) cover about the same metres per minute as AFL players and a lot can play into their late 30's at an elite level. They do a lot more repeat sprints in general than AFL players as well. Someone like Messi who is 31 in a couple of months uses his elite acceleration and speed to create many of his goal scoring opportunities. He isn't going anywhere for at least 6-7 years at the top level. The fact is in a lot of sports where short bursts of acceleration and speed, mixed with endurance are required, a lot of the better or best athletes are able to continue until their late 30's now days with modern sports science and recovery practices. John Isner just won his first even Masters 1000 tournament and is 33 in less than 3 weeks time.

How much comes down to experience from the athlete, understanding your body and the science around the athlete? Human nature controls how our body develops, and you can't defy the natural deterioration of testosterone. GAJ is a great example, he is almost as damaging as he was at his prime but he has had to adapt his game, he knows what he can and can't do and knows that his experience and smarts is going to take him further than his athletic abilities.

With time and experience comes wisdom and knowledge, the best in the world adapt in way or another.

PS. Using sprinting as an indicator of athletic guide for age deterioration is as valuable as using cyclists lol

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Looking forward to winning this game and then winning against Melbourne, who are also rubbish.

4-0

 

[Turly]

So we aren't allowed opinions unless they're given the OK by the Bigfooty Hawthorn board hivemind?

It’s a silly opinion. We haven’t even played the game yet and we already have posters claiming Clarko has made the wrong decision.

We’re sitting 2-0 and coming up against the reigning premiers. We already have a good mix of youth and experience. Langers is fit and has been running his guts out whilst having the broken hand.

Frawley is a lock, Morrison is ‘youthful’ and Langers brings pace and toughness which we’re going to need against this lineup.

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

 

[cryptor]

Got the same good feeling I had before the last 2 games. Even with Burgoyne and Sicily out I reckon we still have what it takes. Something special about this group.

 

[Brishawk]

Strength peaks in your early to mid 20s (genetics aside), testosterone starts to subside from your mid to late 20s, this correlates directly with the strength levels and muscle density. I also have no doubt lowering of testosterone in males plays significant parts in why athletes lose speed, have more soft tissue issues and struggle with work loads as they enter their 30s.

You are right but my reference to peak later’ should be read in the context of another poster complaining about our young guys not getting a game despite peak speed being in their favour. We are playing guys 25-26 ahead of 20 year olds.

 

[Pessimistic]

Got the same good feeling I had before the last 2 games. Even with Burgoyne and Sicily out I reckon we still have what it takes. Something special about this group.

Same, even if tomorrow is a loss. It’s one of our three difficult fixtures

 

[OnceKicked50]

The age question is very valid if your best are in their 30s (or just about there).

Our best 10 in no thought through order (and it's open for debate)

1. Mitchell - 24
2. Burgoyne - 35
3. Mcevoy - 28
4. Roughead - 30
5. Rioli - 28
6. Gunston - 26
7. Bruest - 27
8. O'mera - 24
9. Sicily - 23
10. Smith - 29

Whilst that group is a decent blend of players at their tail end and players in or headed towards the middle parts of their career, we really want to see some 20-22 year olds in that bracket and that's where I see some vulnerabilities. Ryan Burton will be there but apart from him we don't have any kids screaming the door down, this is where I'd love to see some of the list dynamics improve.

So having the balls to move on Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell to bring in T.Mitchell (24) and O'Meara (24) hasn't been enough? Bringing in Impey (22) for a second rounder not good enough?

It's pretty hard to have these gun 20 year olds you're after when we haven't had access to them in the draft. Personally, I sit back in admiration and pride that we have been able to rebuild on the run with no access to the best young kids via the draft.

Further to this, I see no reason why Hardwick (21) or Howe (22) wouldn't improve further. They have established themselves as locks in the best 22 already. Also Clarko himself has been on record stating he thinks Morrison (19) has A-grade potential as a midfielder.

 

[Brishawk]

The average age of the 100m winner is almost 30 at Olympic level if you go back to about 1980. It is late 30's where speed starts to drop off noticeably.

Soccer players whilst only playing 100 ish minutes (with only one break at half time) cover about the same metres per minute as AFL players and a lot can play into their late 30's at an elite level. They do a lot more repeat sprints in general than AFL players as well. Someone like Messi who is 31 in a couple of months uses his elite acceleration and speed to create many of his goal scoring opportunities. He isn't going anywhere for at least 6-7 years at the top level. The fact is in a lot of sports where short bursts of acceleration and speed, mixed with endurance are required, a lot of the better or best athletes are able to continue until their late 30's now days with modern sports science and recovery practices. John Isner just won his first even Masters 1000 tournament and is 33 in less than 3 weeks time.

Not true. The avaerage age of 100m winners is 25. The average in your chosen period is 26.1. And the only winner in that period you looked at that was over 30 was Christie in 1992 (32). It should also be noted that the fastest time by multiple winners was their first time.

Edit: I do agree that recovery and conditioning can keep an athlete performing at a higher level for longer and I expect more afl footballers to play into their mid thirties.

 

[Brishawk]

Surely we are not engaging the age debate. Age numbers are an extension for people who see the game purely through stats, and make assessments primarily through those means.

Average age of clubs 2018:

1. Adelaide - 24 years, 192 Days
2. Hawthorn - 24 years, 179 days
18. Gold Coast - 23 years, 22 days.

That's 522 days between HFC and GCFC - 1.43 years.

1.43 years!! Coming of premierships where we are not cleaning out our list like Carlton every three years and recruiting mature age players (even the TOM and JOM's) over 18 year old kids is going to have an impact on these numbers. Don't get caught in the hyperbole.

No doubt however, if we loose to GCFC and the like we will be labelled "to old and slow" by our supporters yearning for blood because yes, 1.43 yrs makes a massive difference!

1.43 years is 2 preseasons and about 40 games of experience. That is a massive difference.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It’s a silly opinion. We haven’t even played the game yet and we already have posters claiming Clarko has made the wrong decision.

We’re sitting 2-0 and coming up against the reigning premiers. We already have a good mix of youth and experience. Langers is fit and has been running his guts out whilst having the broken hand.

Frawley is a lock, Morrison is ‘youthful’ and Langers brings pace and toughness which we’re going to need against this lineup.

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

I have no issue with the ins.

I do have an issue with people who question the credentials of other posters that have dared to offer up their opinon that not all of our players are just amazing or that everything the club does is golden. It happens far too often on here, it's as if most on this board are afraid to read anything negative.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Be a really good test tomorrow to see how well we can handle their pressure, hopefully a lot better than we did late last season.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Handling the 29C on a 4 day break will be the harder test

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Handling the 29C on a 4 day break will be the harder test

It's a 6 day break and we managed it in 2013 when we played Geelong Easter Monday and then went to Perth to play the Eagles in 30 degree heat 6 days later.

 

[burton5]

Nov 2017 2.2km time trial results
1st – Isaac Smith
2nd – Harry Morrison
3rd – Conor Nash
4th – Ben Stratton
4th – Dallas Willsmore
4th – Jonathan O’Rourke
7th – Daniel Howe
7th – Jack Gunston

Jan 2018 2.2km time trial results
1st – Isaac Smith
2nd – Harry Morrison
3rd – Ben Stratton
4th – Dylan Moore
5th – Changkuoth Jiath
6th – Jonathan O’Rourke
7th – Liam Shiels
8th – Conor Nash
9th - Dallas Willsmore
10th – Dan Howe

Laughable that a few days ago Terry Wallace said that Jono O'Rourke looked "unfit" and not up to AFL fitness standards when he watched him in the praccy match at Punt Road on Good Friday


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hawk_francais]

Laughable that a few days ago Terry Wallace said that Jono O'Rourke looked "unfit" and not up to AFL fitness standards when he watched him in the praccy match at Punt Road on Good Friday


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Terry Wallace probably still thinks Tambling looks better than Franklin.

 

[tige19]

Terry Wallace probably still thinks Tambling looks better than Franklin.

Lol well played sir

 

[tige19]

So having the balls to move on Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell to bring in T.Mitchell (24) and O'Meara (24) hasn't been enough? Bringing in Impey (22) for a second rounder not good enough?

It's pretty hard to have these gun 20 year olds you're after when we haven't had access to them in the draft. Personally, I sit back in admiration and pride that we have been able to rebuild on the run with no access to the best young kids via the draft.

Further to this, I see no reason why Hardwick (21) or Howe (22) wouldn't improve further. They have established themselves as locks in the best 22 already. Also Clarko himself has been on record stating he thinks Morrison (19) has A-grade potential as a midfielder.

Impey shows all the attributes of being an elite player, improve that tank a bit and he is there.. still probably 16-20 on our list.

Howe is miles and miles off, his disposal horrendous and decision making even worst. He has the physical attributes and at different times has shown the ability to win enough footy, but until he improves those 3 years substantially he is nothing but an average foot soldier.

Agree on Dimma, already a high level small defender.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Clarkson is fiercely loyal to those who have performed for him in key moments.

This is no surprise.

I think he is also pretty pragmatic when he needs to be (mitchell lewis and hodge?). If they picked langers there were very good reasons mate

 

[TheFourPillars]

Impey shows all the attributes of being an elite player, improve that tank a bit and he is there.. still probably 16-20 on our list.

Howe is miles and miles off, his disposal horrendous and decision making even worst. He has the physical attributes and at different times has shown the ability to win enough footy, but until he improves those 3 years substantially he is nothing but an average foot soldier.

Agree on Dimma, already a high level small defender.

Howe is one of the reasons for our resurgence in the middle. All u see is mitchell getting it dont get me wrong he does that very well but u are under selling howe omeara and shiels in making that happen

 

[Agent Smith]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/video/2018-04-02/last-two-minutes-r2-v-geelong

incidentally, the opening seconds of this has the footage of Duryea's "throw": he handpassed it into Stratton's leg.

Interestingly, the 'last two minutes' included an extra couple of seconds to include the Duryea footage. Does the AFL consistently show 122 seconds in their 'last two minutes' vids? If I was paranoid, I'd be thinking there was some sort of hidden agenda going on. Luckily, I'm not paranoid at all.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Impey shows all the attributes of being an elite player, improve that tank a bit and he is there.. still probably 16-20 on our list.

Howe is miles and miles off, his disposal horrendous and decision making even worst. He has the physical attributes and at different times has shown the ability to win enough footy, but until he improves those 3 years substantially he is nothing but an average foot soldier.

Agree on Dimma, already a high level small defender.

Impey (22) may very well be one of our prime movers by seasons end. Along with Burton (21) and Hardwick (21) all three may very well address your concerns we don't have anyone in the 20-22 age bracket.

With Howe, I don't disagree with your points at all. However, he played 4 games in his debut year and 11 in season 2016 (when we still held ambitions of a 4-peat). This was in a period Clarko wasn't exactly handing games to kids and reflects the potential the coaching staff sees in him.

At 22, with 35 games to his name, I think we have every reason to be optimistic Howe will improve. As you rightly point out, his decision making and kicking has been poor when playing midfield, but in his first two seasons he clearly demonstrated this wasn't an issue playing off half-back. These areas will tighten up soon enough.

The below is a link to last seasons AFLPA 22 and under team. We had two representatives in Burton and Sicily. For perspective, Sydney had 3 however two were academy picks. All of GWS, Carlton, Essendon, Port Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Western Bulldogs and Adelaide are represented and have had far greater access to the draft then we have.

The point I'm trying to make is not many competitive teams have more then two 20 - 22 year olds in their best 10 players. And as I don't see us at a level of Brisbane, North or Carlton there is no reason for concern.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...e/news-story/f8afccf351f9efd24c89fcc695632490