Discussion Round 5 v Melbourne @ MCG

[FlyingSledghamer]

A.T 100% Correct in every thing. I totally agree, Wilkes is the man! Kosi hasnt impressed me for 10 years!

The argument about Kosi being better cause he crashes packs is crap. Wilkes is 10 times better as a leading forward, he doesn't have to crash packs and drop marks like Kosi in 50, cause he's more often out in front leading hard to space.

That was the big difference I noticed last night. Its been so long since we had a hard leading tall forward taking marks out front in 50.

Since Wilkes started playing forward for Sandy I would say he's been averaging 3-4 a game? A.T?? And same last year for Claremont. From what Ive seen he's an incredibly good set shot.

If I hear any one else suggest that he play in defence. I swear I'll rip my hair out.

It's been a long time since Ive seen a player come in to the team and straight away have an impact like that. I mean thats what you hope for.
WILKES HAS TO STAY IN THE TEAM!

 

[stkildathunda]

A.T 100% Correct in every thing. I totally agree, Wilkes is the man! Kosi hasnt impressed me for 10 years!

The argument about Kosi being better cause he crashes packs is crap. Wilkes is 10 times better as a leading forward, he doesn't have to crash packs and drop marks like Kosi in 50, cause he's more often out in front leading hard to space.

That was the big difference I noticed last night. Its been so long since we had a hard leading tall forward taking marks out front in 50.

Since Wilkes started playing forward for Sandy I would say he's been averaging 3-4 a game? A.T?? And same last year for Claremont. From what Ive seen he's an incredibly good set shot.

If I hear any one else suggest that he play in defence. I swear I'll rip my hair out.

It's been a long time since Ive seen a player come in to the team and straight away have an impact like that. I mean thats what you hope for.
WILKES HAS TO STAY IN THE TEAM!

Fun Fact of the day: In Beau Wilkes last 14 games (10 WAFL, 3 VFL, 1 AFL) he has kicked 57 goals. (ave 4.07)

44 in WAFL
10 in VFL
3 in AFL

 

[saintsrfreak]

Let's not get carried away, Wilkes isn't the second coming.
Let's just see how he goes each week, and hopefully he plays next week to see how he goes against quality opposition.

 

[mysainters]

WILKES HAS TO STAY IN THE TEAM!

Not at the expense of Kosi.

Though the use of capital letters is compelling

People were accused of raving about Justin last week for pointing out he had 8 marks, 5 of which were contested, and 3 goals.

Have to say, this kind of heralding, takes it to a new level.

Congrats Beau, you've won the hearts of the fans in one match, something that a guy who in 10 years of sweat, plenty of blood and tears, hasn't been able to do.

 

[hayes]

Based on that, and last night's game, I happily contend that Beau does not split packs to the degree that Koschitzke does

What does that mean exactly? All this talk of crashing packs and how well a player does it is just ridiculous. Like someone said there's no need to crash a pack if you've actually got the speed to mark the ball on the lead and hold on to it. I'm not even going to go into second and third efforts because it's no contest.

 

[phantom13]

Not at the expense of Kosi.

Though the use of capital letters is compelling

People were accused of raving about Justin last week for pointing out he had 8 marks, 5 of which were contested, and 3 goals.

Have to say, this kind of heralding, takes it to a new level.

Congrats Beau, you've won the hearts of the fans in one match, something that a guy who in 10 years of sweat, plenty of blood and tears, hasn't been able to do.

Will probably sound a bit harsh but Wilkes showed a lot to like last night, Kozi has put in 165 ordinary games and 15 worth watching, saints fans are sick of waiting and hoping Kozi will consistently do what we all know he is capable of, Wilkes is new and shiny, Kozi is old and frustrating.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

What I loved about Wilkes game last night, was that he was a leading forward.

Glad to see him running straight and presenting.

Kosi standing, wrestling and being pushed off the ball for his opponent to then mark, has frustrated me for many many many years.

I appreciate that Wilkes is not a new Tony Lockett, but god how good was it to have a real forward option on the lead, so Lenny, Leigh and Nick have more options to pass to. Milne and Wilkes are real options, rather than just kicking it to Riewoldt who is being double or triple teamed.

Would be interesting to see what has to be done to include Wilkes and Kosi in team, including moving Riewoldt to centre half back. Nothing like adding variety to our game to catch Hawks unaware.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

FWIW, Wilkes reminded me a little of Daniel Bradshaw last night...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If Wilkes had gone badly or if Kosi had for that matter, we'd all be saying what crap conditions it was for tall forwards.
I reckon Wilkes did pretty well in crap conditions.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The crash the packs thing is interesting - we forget that this is a COMPROMISE move by the forward: "If I can't mark it, then hey, well, at least I can crash the pack." And even then, it only has any value if there are crumbers immediately available to take the loose ball, or if the forward does 2nd efforts to lock the ball down. Either way, the chance that a goal will be scored by that forward entry is SIGNIFICANTLY decreased when the forward doesn't mark the ball.

4 marks inside fifty by Wilkes in 53% game time. One contested. All on a night where the ball was like a stick of butter, and most players struggled to mark.

I don't think Wilkes has done enough to stay in the team, but yikes, he looks a helluvalot like a good forward to me.

 

[Fehring]

Kosi v Wilkes. I'm doing some serious yawning here. The Kosi conversation is starting to resemble conversations on the *other* forum.

Thought Wilkes made a really solid debut. Considering his size, I see him as being a competitor with Sippos who apparently played well in the VFL. Well done to Wilkes on what was a tough night for marking forwards.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

haha seriously? It was clearly preplanned. You dont ever sub off your dominant forward from a game in hope its a scrappy affair.. Even you cant seriously believe that.

Why sub Wilkes off then? Why not Riewoldt who did nothing all match..

Was a bloody lucky win

Some really crazy stuff in this thread.

Watters not a game day coach one of the better ones.

Riewoldt doing nothing all match? C'mon AT. Wilkes is the messiah by kicking 3 goals and lays 2 tackles and Riewoldt kicks 2 goals and lays 5 tackles. A bit of a stretch to suggest he's done nothing.

I was happy with Wilkes and knew he would be compared to Kosi. I just don't understand why so many want to stick it to Kosi. It seems the sliding scale has been altered though. 3 goals from 5 possessions and 2 tackles is suddenly praiseworthy. Last week, 3 goals and 14 possessions wasn't. I'm confused.

Good move to adapt on the fly by the Saints. We really played a great 2nd half after getting obliterated in the first half at the stoppages but just struggled to get scores on the board. Very happy with the work of Armo and Jack to help out in the midfield.

Milera isn't afraid to put his body in which I like and is starting to earn free kicks for it.

Gutsy win in my opinion. A lot of things weren't going well and we got the result. Don't forget we only beat Melbourne by 20 points in perfect conditions at Etihad last year in Round 9.

 

[stkildathunda]

Some really crazy stuff in this thread.

Watters not a game day coach one of the better ones.

Riewoldt doing nothing all match? C'mon AT. Wilkes is the messiah by kicking 3 goals and lays 2 tackles and Riewoldt kicks 2 goals and lays 5 tackles. A bit of a stretch to suggest he's done nothing.

I was happy with Wilkes and knew he would be compared to Kosi. I just don't understand why so many want to stick it to Kosi. It seems the sliding scale has been altered though. 3 goals from 5 possessions and 2 tackles is suddenly praiseworthy. Last week, 3 goals and 14 possessions wasn't. I'm confused.

Good move to adapt on the fly by the Saints. We really played a great 2nd half after getting obliterated in the first half at the stoppages but just struggled to get scores on the board. Very happy with the work of Armo and Jack to help out in the midfield.

Milera isn't afraid to put his body in which I like and is starting to earn free kicks for it.

Gutsy win in my opinion. A lot of things weren't going well and we got the result. Don't forget we only beat Melbourne by 20 points in perfect conditions at Etihad last year in Round 9.

Not saying he is the messiah at all... But yes i thought Riewoldt was very poor last night. Said it at half time and still think it now. He wasnt himself last night, and that was from opening bounce.

You trying to compare what Wilkes did in 52% game time to Riewoldt who played entire match??

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Not saying he is the messiah at all... But yes i thought Riewoldt was very poor last night. Said it at half time and still think it now. He wasnt himself last night, and that was from opening bounce.

You trying to compare what Wilkes did in 52% game time to Riewoldt who played entire match??

If you thought Riewoldt did nothing last night then it would probably be a waste of both our time to debate it.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

the selection

If you thought Riewoldt did nothing last night then it would probably be a waste of both our time to debate it.

Credit to Roo last night. He made a contest wherever possible.

We beat a team that was and still is sick of being beaten.

Having said that i thought BJ would play a blinder and chucked the C on him in Supercoach. But hey, he started to ruffle the opponents feathers in the 3rd quarter when the game was to be won.

Next week we play the Hawks and Kosi should be back. Don't see why we should drop Wilkes though. A Kozi/Wilkes combo have more footy smarts than Boumann/Schoenmakers. There must be a query over Gibson for the Hawks.

There is no point going into next week with a contain the Hawks forward line strategy. Hawthorn are going to be as hungry as all **** for a win. So why don't the selection committee just add that extra enigma element and make it a goal for goal shoot-out and let Mr.Wilkes kick them straight? Time to throw down the gauntlet. We have played in more finals than they have in recent years.

A bit of planning and strategy will be needed. We can win next week.

A fantastic game by Leonard again. Thank you.
Many have short memories of him.

[youtube]DyZqSvtQcfo[/youtube]

 

[saintsrfreak]

Maybe Kosi and Wilkes up forward next week with Roo in the midfield?

 

[krusden]

I'd say that there is room for Wilkes and kosi in the tem why not even use Wilkes as the sub? If a forward is nderperforming he knows he's got a replacement there. I did like Wilkes presenting over and over again. Stanley was good as well.
Thought roo was well held by the younger Melbourne player in the forward line who reminded me a fair bit of Harry taylor. That said roo out of the 50 looked good and roaming around in the back line he didn't look out of place. Personally I think it's great that we can now win games without resorting to kick it to nick all the time. His possession count may be lessened somewhat but it's a positive we aren't relying on him all the time.
BJ on the other hand has been well held two weeks in a row. I wasn't impressed with his game and I think he's lucky that he didnt get too fired up thus earning himself a holiday. He seems frustrated he's being tagged, however that dos happen.

 

[Persevering Saint]

If we play Riewoldt in the midfield, who comes out for him?

There is something fascinating about playing Wilkes and Kosi together.

Sippos and Dunnel both say hi, while we're here.


I love having tall forward depth.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Just want to also say, we won against Melbourne by 18 points. West Coast won against Richmond by 10 points. Any suggestions that, "Well, only a 40pt win against Melbourne is par" doesn't seem to stack up when you see this other result. Sometimes, weather conditions and form-change of the strugglers become a factor that makes simplistic, "We should have thrashed them, so we may as well have lost".

 

[saintsrfreak]

If we play Riewoldt in the midfield, who comes out for him?

There is something fascinating about playing Wilkes and Kosi together.

Sippos and Dunnel both say hi, while we're here.


I love having tall forward depth.

You know who

While I'm not in favour of the Polo bashing, he does seem to be the weakest midfielder in our side at the moment, that I can think of anyway

 

[aussierulesrules]

Aside from stepping up in a big way generally, I think we'd have to pull a bit of a rabbit out of the hat in order to win more of our next 4 than we lose.

After seeing how comfortable Wilkes looked at FF last night (especially before it started raining at the end of the 1st quarter) and given how Kosi is back to kicking a few goals this season and Rhys is giving us a terrific lead-up option, maybe that move would be Roo to either CHB (freeing Sam Fisher up to play loose in defence, where he is so damaging), or loose in defence himself.

I don't really see us beating the likes of Hawthorn or Carlton or West Coast (especially over there), with the set-up we've had so far this year, but if Wilkes is able to kick the 2-3 (or more) a week that Roo is kicking at the moment, then sending Roo back to loose in defence, for example, might just tip those games in our favour (if we also lift in other areas).

Imagine Roo just sitting in the hole in front of Buddy/Roughnut, or Waite, or Kennedy/Darling and what a monstrous pain in the ass that would be for them. Roo would just be able to pick off the kicks to them all day, or at the very least get a fist to most of them and would then be able to use his excellent ground kicking to help clear the ball out of our backline.

With Gwilt hopefully back there to also help out in the next few weeks, that would give us a potentially very powerful backline again, which has been the cornerstone of our best footy in the last few years.

We've showed in the past 3 years that we can win games without Roo in our team at all, so we can again manage without him forward (especially now that we have Rhys and Wilkes and Milera (and maybe/hopefully Siposs) who we didn't have then), but add Roo to our backline and he could get back to dominating games again, which he isn't really doing up forward at the moment.

I think that move could genuinely give us a serious chance in these next few games and make the most of our best assets.

 

[thomas_m18]

You could draw comparisons and say that West Coast do go with Darling, Lynch and Kennedy as forwards with Cox and NicNat, although I don't know that our forward line would function as well as that.

We could try it for a week. Might be worth testing out the Hawks down back, especially with Josh Gibson not being 100% after today's game, Birchall still out, and Gilham still on the comeback trail. Not sure it would work, and we can't be afraid to sub one at half time if it's not working.

 

[saintsrfreak]

You could draw comparisons and say that West Coast do go with Darling, Lynch and Kennedy as forwards with Cox and NicNat, although I don't know that our forward line would function as well as that.

We could try it for a week. Might be worth testing out the Hawks down back, especially with Josh Gibson not being 100% after today's game, Birchall still out, and Gilham still on the comeback trail. Not sure it would work, and we can't be afraid to sub one at half time if it's not working.

Could be worth a shout actually, Kosi and Wilkes the stay at home forwards, Rhys and Roo the athletic forawards that play around the ground. Would make us very difficult to match up on.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Sending Roo in to the midfield next week just to accommodate bringing Kosi back into the team is a loose loose situation IMO. Not really playing to Roo's strengths there.

Not sure what the deal is with bagging Roo's game either. I think he did what he's been doing well this whole season and was quite serviceable.

I don't think there's any way to play McEvoy, Roo, Kosi, Stanley and Wilkes in the same team. You can't have 3 tall forwards, the ball will rebound too quickly when the op get it on the ground.

I don't get what the big fuss is when it comes to Kosi and Wilkes. Wilkes did a great job and should get rewarded by staying in the team.
What is everyone worried about hurting Kosi's feelings?

Depth is a wonderful thing, and I don't think the pressure on Kosi's spot will do him any harm either.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Do we put Riewoldt in the backline instead of, say, Blake?