Game Day Round 5 vs. BRIS. Thurs 14/04, 7:35pm Gabba

[No SPIN]

The see what he's got argument might be applicable for us supporters, but the club sees every training session and vfl game, where blokes show what they've got and how much they're progressing. No idea about training, but Kelly is currently a shambles at vfl level and Poulter is improving but is an outsider who looks rushed and shanky at VFL level - let them improve in the vfl.

Agree - this idea of loading up the Seniors with kids, who will get smashed physically and on the score board every week, is folly.
That's not a development program in any sense.

 

[Markfs]

The see what he's got argument might be applicable for us supporters, but the club sees every training session and vfl game, where blokes show what they've got and how much they're progressing. No idea about training, but Kelly is currently a shambles at vfl level and Poulter is improving but is an outsider who looks rushed and shanky at VFL level - let them improve in the vfl.

I dont disagree with you about Kelly, but if there are people around the club who want to give him another 5 years to make his father proud of him, then I'm dead set against that. If we need to give him 6 weeks and then try him in the AFL then do it that way. Whatever the timeframe, I'd like the decision made this year. As for Poulter I dont disagree, and he has things that he can learn at VFL level, but he needs to learn AFL stuff too. He went ok last year and if our output drops because he is in the team, then so be it.

We're trying to run WHE into form, he should be in the VFL doing that. The same for Mason. If they cant maintain form as senior players then try someone younger who will be just as inconsistent but might actually improve.

We were hanging on to a lot of players for a while there and we moved a lot of them on....Reid Greenwood etc. However, we have a new batch to move on. The match committee might have already decided on some of them. I dont know. Evidently, they still see the Browns as part of their plans. I wouldnt.

The thing that I dont wanna see is that we come to the end of the year and drop off the minimum amount of players and keep guys like the browns and kellys for another year.

 

[Markfs]

I'd go with

OUT: Elliot (inj), Ginnivan (sore), Mihocek (hs protocols) Madgen
IN: Adams, De Goey, Roughead, Krueger

Roughead for Madge will strengthen our defence a lot. Krueger for Mihocek. Adams and De Goey auto-inclusions.

Brown is a lucky bastard.

I think there's an argument to bring in Cox over Cameron however i'm happy to give Cameron a small block of games. It's much of a muchness between them who plays and 5 changes is a lot.

I was watching the game last week and the Madge was standing on Ryan. Could Roughhead have done that? I presume that you'll say that the deckchairs get rearranged so that Roughhead takes Kennedy and then the rest shakes down, but I sometimes wonder about our number one goal of getting rid of the Madge. That being said, I would never think to question our obsession with being madgenless.

 

[Capital Magpie]

We're trying to run WHE into form, he should be in the VFL doing that. The same for Mason. If they cant maintain form as senior players then try someone younger who will be just as inconsistent but might actually improve.

Fair points, but we're not trying to run Mason into form in the Ones; he's been in the Twos for the last few weeks, and it's Cameron who's replaced him in the Ones and who we're apparently trying to run into form.

Give Cox another crack I say and let Cameron try and press his claims in the Ressies.

 

[Markfs]

Fair points, but we're not trying to run Mason into form in the Ones; he's been in the Twos for the last few weeks, and it's Cameron who's replaced him in the Ones and who we're apparently trying to run into form.

Give Cox another crack I say and let Cameron try and press his claims in the Ressies.

well i think we've been trying to run ONE of them into form, and that has contributed to them changing over a bit. The thing is, has Cameron been in the seniors long enough where we know what he's capable of? I think we know what Cox is capable of. He's had extended periods to demonstrate that and has been inconsistent throughout the journey. I said in an earlier post that we should just swap them weekly until someone clicks. Certainly Cox doesnt really deserve any more patience. I'm more inclined to give a bit to Cameron.

But overall, Cameron gives longer term coverage for the ruck.

I would love for one or both to actually show something for a consistent period. I go back to what I said earlier. My basic rule in rebuilding situations is that senior players need to play consistently week in week out and help develop the youngsters. If they dont do that, I cant see why they are in the team.

 

[LuckyLee]

So one bad game so we cut him? Right

Rest, not cut. He is a talented young bloke with a relatively poor tank. Periodic resting is a sensible part of his development. But I can see it being delayed one week. It’s all hands on deck for this game given all the forced outs.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[sr36]

I dont disagree with you about Kelly, but if there are people around the club who want to give him another 5 years to make his father proud of him, then I'm dead set against that. If we need to give him 6 weeks and then try him in the AFL then do it that way. Whatever the timeframe, I'd like the decision made this year. As for Poulter I dont disagree, and he has things that he can learn at VFL level, but he needs to learn AFL stuff too. He went ok last year and if our output drops because he is in the team, then so be it.

We're trying to run WHE into form, he should be in the VFL doing that. The same for Mason. If they cant maintain form as senior players then try someone younger who will be just as inconsistent but might actually improve.

We were hanging on to a lot of players for a while there and we moved a lot of them on....Reid Greenwood etc. However, we have a new batch to move on. The match committee might have already decided on some of them. I dont know. Evidently, they still see the Browns as part of their plans. I wouldnt.

The thing that I dont wanna see is that we come to the end of the year and drop off the minimum amount of players and keep guys like the browns and kellys for another year.

My view is that heaps of the footy world got suckered into the best way of developing kids is to play them in the AFL regardless of whether they're ready. Get them to a magic number of games ASAP.

To me it's the best way of producing footballers like the Browns - blokes with some nice attributes who have had some games pumped into them. Blokes who play really unconfidentally, have had their chance and need to be delisted and replaced by a new semi likely kid to achieve your next Brown with.

 

[Markfs]

My view is that heaps of the footy world got suckered into the best way of developing kids is to play them in the AFL regardless of whether they're ready. Get them to a magic number of games ASAP.

To me it's the best way of producing footballers like the Browns - blokes with some nice attributes who have had some games pumped into them. Blokes who play really unconfidentally, have had their chance and need to be delisted and replaced by a new semi likely kid to achieve your next Brown with.

i disagree with your brown assessment but I know it's a problem. Callum is just too small and doesnt kick well enough and just doesnt find the footy enough. Those attributes would be there irrespective.

But I agree flooding the team with youth isnt the answer. However, senior players not performing consistently ...and WHE, mason and the browns are examples ... is not the answer.

In the backline we are too experienced...far too experienced with Roughhead coming back in. We need to push forward. I'm not sure if roughhead wouldnt be better used in the VFL. It fits his coaching aspirations. Who is going to replace him next year? We should be playing that player now. You say Dean? well maybe but thats just one example. Howe?

The problem is that mccrae has a honeymoon period and he is wasting it. I will be tearing him down later in the year with the rest of the collingwood faithful. We will be making his life unbearable if he keeps raising expectations like he did in the first two weeks.

 

[stormskye]

i disagree with your brown assessment but I know it's a problem. Callum is just too small and doesnt kick well enough and just doesnt find the footy enough. Those attributes would be there irrespective.

But I agree flooding the team with youth isnt the answer. However, senior players not performing consistently ...and WHE, mason and the browns are examples ... is not the answer.

In the backline we are too experienced...far too experienced with Roughhead coming back in. We need to push forward. I'm not sure if roughhead wouldnt be better used in the VFL. It fits his coaching aspirations. Who is going to replace him next year? We should be playing that player now. You say Dean? well maybe but thats just one example. Howe?

The problem is that mccrae has a honeymoon period and he is wasting it. I will be tearing him down later in the year with the rest of the collingwood faithful. We will be making his life unbearable if he keeps raising expectations like he did in the first two weeks.

How is the shape it list in any way mcraes fault? Roughies getting on, dean injured, Kelly ain’t up to it. We have holes everywhere, lack inside mids, KPF. None of these have anything to do with mcrae. He’s inherited a terrible list.

 

[Cobalt King]

Agree - this idea of loading up the Seniors with kids, who will get smashed physically and on the score board every week, is folly.
That's not a development program is any sense.

Spot on, no point picking kids who aren't going to get a kick. Melbourne did it for years and they destroyed so many early draft picks and ended up on the bottom for 10 years. We have a lot of nice young players but let's not flog them and destroy their confidence

 

[No SPIN]

Fair points, but we're not trying to run Mason into form in the Ones; he's been in the Twos for the last few weeks, and it's Cameron who's replaced him in the Ones and who we're apparently trying to run into form.

Give Cox another crack I say and let Cameron try and press his claims in the Ressies.

Agree - I don’t get any sense of urgency in Cameron. He just seems so casual and lacking intensity, hopefully getting dropped ignites a spark.
But credit to Cox, just when I think he’s gone he re-emerges, with a good game deserving a recall.

 

[Couch Coach]

Fair points, but we're not trying to run Mason into form in the Ones; he's been in the Twos for the last few weeks, and it's Cameron who's replaced him in the Ones and who we're apparently trying to run into form.

Give Cox another crack I say and let Cameron try and press his claims in the Ressies.

Begg is out with concussion therefore whoever is in the VFL this week will play majority ruck.

 

[No SPIN]

i disagree with your brown assessment but I know it's a problem. Callum is just too small and doesnt kick well enough and just doesnt find the footy enough. Those attributes would be there irrespective.

But I agree flooding the team with youth isnt the answer. However, senior players not performing consistently ...and WHE, mason and the browns are examples ... is not the answer.

In the backline we are too experienced...far too experienced with Roughhead coming back in. We need to push forward. I'm not sure if roughhead wouldnt be better used in the VFL. It fits his coaching aspirations. Who is going to replace him next year? We should be playing that player now. You say Dean? well maybe but thats just one example. Howe?

The problem is that mccrae has a honeymoon period and he is wasting it. I will be tearing him down later in the year with the rest of the collingwood faithful. We will be making his life unbearable if he keeps raising expectations like he did in the first two weeks.

Kelly is the obvious one for the backline, but is showing nothing in the VFL.
He seriously needs to get his act together because he has the athletic attributes to make it - but no motivation or drive it seems.

 

[Sunbot]

I'd go with

OUT: Elliot (inj), Ginnivan (sore), Mihocek (hs protocols) Madgen
IN: Adams, De Goey, Roughead, Krueger

Roughead for Madge will strengthen our defence a lot. Krueger for Mihocek. Adams and De Goey auto-inclusions.

Brown is a lucky bastard.

I think there's an argument to bring in Cox over Cameron however i'm happy to give Cameron a small block of games. It's much of a muchness between them who plays and 5 changes is a lot.

I was hoping for 6 changes:
The loss of 3 forwards means a rethink up there and I don’t believe JDG is the answer. I would like to see Cox, Krueger, Cameron and Henry as targets with both Daicos - that combo would create a lot of concern for the Lions. Also means ruck backup keeps either Cox or Cameron fwd.
Roughead for Madgen is a must.
Midfield ins of Adams and JDG replace Brown and Wilson (unlucky but on a quick turnaround is best and he can come back ANZAC).
Keep Bianco as an IN and sub Madgen or Poulter.

B: Howe Roughead Maynard
HB: Quaynor Moore Noble
C: Sidebottom JDG WHE
HF: Daicos Krueger Daicos
F: Cameron Cox Henry
Fol: Grundy Adams Crisp
bench: Pendles Lapinski McInnes Bianco
Sub: Madgen/Poulter

Lions will lose to this team

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Gotta go the three talls now. Cox Cameron Kreuger.

 

[Rorzza]

I thought Madge was good last week too, he protected the space between WC's forwards exceptionally well. He was at least 10 m infront of the tall forwards and 10 m behind the small forwards. He would have gathered way more possessions if WC had missed more inside 50 targets.

 

[Markfs]

How is the shape it list in any way mcraes fault? Roughies getting on, dean injured, Kelly ain’t up to it. We have holes everywhere, lack inside mids, KPF. None of these have anything to do with mcrae. He’s inherited a terrible list.

because it's our job to blame someone and we are going to start blaming him by the end of the season..... i still blame buckley for taking the job from malthouse...

 

[Markfs]

Kelly is the obvious one for the backline, but is showing nothing in the VFL.
He seriously needs to get his act together because he has the athletic attributes to make it - but no motivation or drive it seems.

He has a well-connected father... that must be worth something. It seems the fact that he's his father's son is the reason he's on the list.

Adelaide wanted him at pick 29. Maybe we can do a deal with them for pick 40 at the end of the season....They lost their kelly so maybe they'll be desperate for one

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He has a well-connected father... that must be worth something. It seems the fact that he's his father's son is the reason he's on the list.

Adelaide wanted him at pick 29. Maybe we can do a deal with them for pick 40 at the end of the season....They lost their kelly so maybe they'll be desperate for one

Maybe they only wanted our Kelly in a hope to retain their Kelly.

I’m still happy to be patient. He’s had his injuries, he’s just changed roles so has to reinvent himself as a defender, and there’s no other young talls at this stage that have moved ahead of him… they are all an unknown quantity.

And of course like many of his generation his development has been severely restricted in 2020/21 with almost no VFL

 

[Markfs]

and there’s no other young talls at this stage

i agree with the above. it seems craig told derek not to get any other talls because will would blitz em......we could always go out and find someone midseason who can play...

did you see him last week. He got the ball and he played on ...went one way....went the other ....the guy came towards him and grabbed him and he didnt know how to handball it ...holding the ball


and then he repeated it again a while later...rinse and repeat...

 

[Doc1763]

Noble & Henry both dropped

 

[Doc1763]

And Madge survives again!!!

 

[Seedsfan]

Such a yuck team

 

[Jen2310]

Nobody picked this lol

Playing 4 talls including Grundy...

 

[danielnajdek]

I hate that we dropped Henry.