Autopsy Round 8 vs Adelaide Rant Thread

[thylacine60]

Re: All Rockstars - No Roadies!

Has the Carlton media machine produced a bunch of rockstars with the abundance of media commitments being thrown at the players this year.

It's a known fact that PREMIERSHIPS sell MEMBERSHIPS and not home videos!

I hope someone recognises the constant distraction to the task at hand and perhaps considers winding it back somewhat so the lads can just feel like footballers again and do the TEAM things.

or is that just the way the business of football runs these days?

Can be a fine line between giving supporters the info, news and contact they crave whilst simultaneously keeping the players feet on the ground.

 

[rp84]

Wont hurt any of these 3 to be dropped. Duigan and Jeffy were lucky to survive last week!

Didn't garlett kick about half our score?

 

[carlton2dabone]

Honestly, the way he is going, who cares?

Its not about Waite clunking every mark that he goes for, its about having him down there to provide a target to kick to.

If he can get 2 or 3 opposition players to fly with him in the air, then that gives the opportunity for our smalls to crumb the ball when it hits the ground.

At the moment, we dont have a tall target to kick to, so instead we kick to Eddie (who is a small) against 2 taller opponents.

Having said that, Waite needs to be directed to stop leading into the pockets all the time, and spend alot of his time coming out of the goalsqaure, so that our smalls have the best opportunity to be front and sqaure when the ball hits the ground.

Why werent either Kruez or Hampson parked in the goalsqaure most of the time?

Surely while one was rucking, the other one would be utilized in the goalsquare, why was that not happening?

 

[Moody Blue]

I really don't know where to turn from here. Maybe Ratts and Co need to change the players' week, and mix it up a bit. Change of venue for training, go to movies, play a round of golf, anything to get them focused on the footy again.[/quote]

Ratten's ongoing love affair with Melbourne continues. He spent a couple of seasons there as an assistant and just can't get enough of them.He signed up McLean who was clearly past it.Going to the movies isn't going to make them go in hard this week. We are lucky coming up against a very poor Melbourne on the one hand, but on the other they also have nothing to lose and really cannot get any lower. This will be a tough game this week make no mistake.

 

[rampar]

Best they go see the avengers in 3D. They could take something from the hulk? NO GOLD CLASS.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Didn't garlett kick about half our score?

Probably, I was just responding to what someone was interpreting in Ratten's email.

Still doesn't mean he played well, not sure he was hard enough or chased and tackled as intently as he has done in the past. I remember 1 goal was a handball to him alone in the goal square, another was a good snap from a boundary throw in and the 3rd was a set shot he got over the top on his own again.

 

[BlueFeaver]

I have heard five to eight changes this week?........who?

For me.......

Out
Russell.....low on confidence
Duigan.....where has his kicking gone and seems to be struggling to move properly
Gibbs.....seems lazy actually really lazy! Send a message
Murphy......injured
Thornton.....just will not keep his feet

In
Brock.....this is make or break for him
Lucas......play off a hbf
Bootsma......perfect time for another game for him
Waite
Watson......maybe

I am at a loss

 

[phoenix69]

Hampson & Kruezer's inability to hold contested marks is a real problem. I'm not saying it's the only problem, but it turns it into a 50/50 contest on the ground and with AC and now MM out we're gonna be even more susceptible in this situation.

 

[thylacine60]

We seem to be wasting a hell of a lot of "Kroooooooooz" work in the crowd only to have him spill mark after mark.

 

[The_Wookie]

Hampson & Kruezer's inability to hold contested marks is a real problem. I'm not saying it's the only problem, but it turns it into a 50/50 contest on the ground and with AC and now MM out we're gonna be even more susceptible in this situation.

its more glaring now than it used to be for the same reason people find that our ruckwork isnt as effective. We're not getting the space we used to, and almost no one is going in for the hard ball. Theres no point making a contest if no one wants it at ground level.

When we had space every ruck tap was gold or looked gold, every dropped mark fell at the feet of a running offsider who went on. We arent doing the basic things that you do get taught early on in a football career.

 

[phoenix69]

We seem to be wasting a hell of a lot of "Kroooooooooz" work in the crowd only to have him spill mark after mark.

I still think he is our answer at FF Round 8 and he's buggered. change the structure, change the game plan and straighten us up through the corridor.

We don't play corridor footy when we get the chance. I thought against GWS we used the flanks against a far inferior outfit. The next 2 weeks should be used to try and use the middle and come through in waves from the back! BANG! straight to Kreuzer or possibly Henderson who is ripe to come back down forward IMO.

 

[Hus83]

Play Kreuzer in the midfield. Drop warnock/hampson.
Curnow up for the ruck contest. Room for one more onballer.

Wont skew current clearance trend. If anything it should go up.

 

[The_Wookie]

Kreuzer has been worse than Hampson at Full Forward. Evidently worse at his ruck work as well, or theres another reason why Hampson has started the ruck the last two games and spent most of the games in the middle.

 

[incog43]

I am waiting for the club to sign Brad Green, that should solve our problems!

 

[HBF]

Shows a lack of respect for Murphy, has been leading our CP and Clearances (after Carrots) this year, even since the Essendon game. ..

Right off the bat CP, i'm one of Murphys biggest fans. His improvement since the start of 2011 has been one of the reasons why we have improved the way we have. What he needs to do now is to learn how to cope with a tag. I thought Jones did a pretty good job on him last Monday, and Van Berlo shut him right out of the game on Monday.

Clubs have worked out that if you stop Murphy now moreso than stopping Judd, it goes along way to beating us.

 

[Claypigeon]

Right off the bat CP, i'm one of Murphys biggest fans. His improvement since the start of 2011 has been one of the reasons why we have improved the way we have. What he needs to do now is to learn how to cope with a tag. I thought Jones did a pretty good job on him last Monday, and Van Berlo shut him right out of the game on Monday.

Clubs have worked out that if you stop Murphy now moreso than stopping Judd, it goes along way to beating us.

I get the impression they tag whichever one is in the best form plus Murphy is more deadly on the outside then Judd this year, so it makes sense to go to him. Not sure Murphy got a chance to break the tag as it was only 1 and a half games that he was locked down. Also thought he was starting to up his effort at the time he got injured was involved in a few plays leading to the clash.

Judd will likely cop a heavy tag til he's back too.

 

[Peete]

The game has changed a tad over the last year or so...

The press/crush/heavy zone/flood - all these versions of the same thing pretty much favoured speed and endurance over 4 quarters - getting numbers forward and back and forward and back again - over and over and over again...

Teams all graduated into playing the same style - according to personnel and to a lesser or greater degree

Against this idea was the notion of winning contested situations - wherever they happened to be and playing down the middle of the ground. For every Geelong - there were many failures.

Carltons list favoured a zone game in defence and a fast breaking game from clearances. We improved our ability to win contested possessions and to clear the ball to the runners - Judd was and is a remarkable winner of the ball - and by fits and starts got some help from others in particular a re-engineered Carrazzo.

However better teams don't stop development - the Geelong diaspora most notable now in Sanderson - sees teh Geelong game of bigger faster bodies working to dominate contests and a strong kicking game is becoming the dominant game now - WC/Essendon/Sydney are also playing same game and executing well more often than not.

Carlton's challenge is to come up with a way to be better in the competitions - against stacked crowded stoppages - and to play man on man in the fast breaks.

We have been found wanting in both areas for a few weeks.

I reckon a top 8 finish this year shouldnt be laughed at - top4 gven our injury list and need t re-engineer is not going to happen.

More worrying looking forward is our total list - so many injuries and so many players not competing for a top22 position. Thisis what has to be fixed - and fixed y getting a whole bunch of bigger bodied players for midfield options as well as the two misssing tall KPP we still dont have.

 

[squiddles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_AFL_season#Premiership_season

Check out where the Saints run up to Round 8. Lost one of our best players too.

Don't write your mob off just yet, get that intensity that everyone feared back. I actually think that this is a good thing to happen. Brought you back to the ground and allow you to peak later in the season when it counts.

The best part is we can now get even better odds on Carlton winning a flag.

 

[Cheech14]

Right off the bat CP, i'm one of Murphys biggest fans. His improvement since the start of 2011 has been one of the reasons why we have improved the way we have. What he needs to do now is to learn how to cope with a tag. I thought Jones did a pretty good job on him last Monday, and Van Berlo shut him right out of the game on Monday.

Clubs have worked out that if you stop Murphy now moreso than stopping Judd, it goes along way to beating us.

The coaching staff need to devise an actual plan to help him shake it then.

Run screens for him, send another of our players to his opponent. Do something at least to break up the ease in which they can tag him.

 

[reg_lower91]

It's about time that we all faced facts that we are a great side against weaker opponents, yet we completely fall away (as does our structure) against better sides and in big games. The following is our track record against top-8 sides for the last 4 years:
Year: Wins - Draws - Losses
2012: 2-0-1
2011: 5-1-7
2010: 2-0-8
2009: 5-0-6
Total over 37 games: 14-1-22
Win percentage: 38%

That means we win just over 1 out of every 3 games we play against top-8 sides and we have never finished a season with our ledger in the black against top-8 teams. Not good enough IMHO.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The coaching staff need to devise an actual plan to help him shake it then.

Run screens for him, send another of our players to his opponent. Do something at least to break up the ease in which they can tag him.

It bothers me that professional footballers can't recognise this and do it on the fly. We struggled to find anybody that would block for Judd, in fact Wiggins was the last one I remember shirtfronting Judd's tagger off the ball while blocking and Hadley used to use his big frame to create a path for Judd. Nobody else really does this. Carrazzo clears it himself but doesn't sacrifice himself for Judd as far as I can see. Judd still does the work for Murphy and Carrazzo to capitalise on. This is exactly the role Ellard, Robinson or McLean should be filling. The first two especially as their disposal is not off the top shelf necessarily and they are tough bastards who don't mind contact.

What is wrong with Judd telling someone to block for Murph as onfield captain? Why do the coaches need to tell these guys this is important? I mean they have been preaching it for years now in regards to Judd, it should automatically apply to Murph.

From the outside looking in, it appears that the players do not want to ask for players to block for them as that is elevating themselves and their desire to win the ball ahead of the player that they are asking to be the sacrificial lamb. They want to get the ball themselves. Mind you, if Ellard got run over 10 times a match in order to free up Murphy or Judd, and only got the ball 10 times himself, he would become a scapegoat for omission the following week based on his raw stats. If people do the hard off the ball work, we supporters need to recognise it. Right now, we have players in and out of the side who want to get the ball to stay in, rather than fill a role.

 

[Peete]

The Old Dark Navy'sIt bothers me

that professional footballers can't recognise this and do it on the fly.
True - but Curnow/Joseph/Ellard are pretty raw relatively new AFL players

We struggled to find anybody that would block for Judd, in fact Wiggins was the last one I remember shirtfronting Judd's tagger off the ball while blocking and Hadley used to use his big frame to create a path for Judd. Nobody else really does this. Carrazzo clears it himself but doesn't sacrifice himself for Judd

would rather have 3-5 ball winners than just the one (Judd) - also players deliver what they are asked to in terms of KPI's - we have 13 different coaches at Carlton...each with their own ideas- each influencing a lot of immature newish players..

as far as I can see. Judd still does the work for Murphy and Carrazzo to capitalise on. ( Really?? - I don't)

Ellard, Robinson or McLean should be filling. The first two especially as their disposal is not off the top shelf necessarily and they are tough bastards who don't mind contact.

Give Ellard and Robbo another 10 kilos each and tehy coudl match the bigger tagging players

What is wrong with Judd telling someone to block for Murph as onfield captain? Why do the coaches need to tell these guys this is important? I mean they have been preaching it for years now in regards to Judd, it should automatically apply to Murph.

I reckon we do very little talking as a team on the field- and I think that money may be an issue - there is resentment in the troops - pretty obvious in the way they play NOT for each other - there are a few so called stars gettign paid a few multiples of other top15 players in the team...

..... if Ellard got run over 10 times a match in order to free up Murphy or Judd, and only got the ball 10 times himself, he would become a scapegoat for omission the following week based on his raw stats.

yep - and that is a coaching issue.

 

[The Coach]

It bothers me that professional footballers can't recognise this and do it on the fly. We struggled to find anybody that would block for Judd, in fact Wiggins was the last one I remember shirtfronting Judd's tagger off the ball while blocking and Hadley used to use his big frame to create a path for Judd. Nobody else really does this. Carrazzo clears it himself but doesn't sacrifice himself for Judd as far as I can see. Judd still does the work for Murphy and Carrazzo to capitalise on. This is exactly the role Ellard, Robinson or McLean should be filling. The first two especially as their disposal is not off the top shelf necessarily and they are tough bastards who don't mind contact.

Both relative newbs but I would question whether Robbo is smart enough and whether Ellard is big enough. I reckon McLean should be the better option if he hasn't also slowed in his reflexs (never been Brock's biggest fan but he has to be given an extended run with our injuries)

What is wrong with Judd telling someone to block for Murph as onfield captain? Why do the coaches need to tell these guys this is important? I mean they have been preaching it for years now in regards to Judd, it should automatically apply to Murph.

Partly because that is their job! And who the players answer to (unless Juddy is more a captain than I think)

From the outside looking in, it appears that the players do not want to ask for players to block for them as that is elevating themselves and their desire to win the ball ahead of the player that they are asking to be the sacrificial lamb. They want to get the ball themselves. Mind you, if Ellard got run over 10 times a match in order to free up Murphy or Judd, and only got the ball 10 times himself, he would become a scapegoat for omission the following week based on his raw stats. If people do the hard off the ball work, we supporters need to recognise it. Right now, we have players in and out of the side who want to get the ball to stay in, rather than fill a role.

I don't see this last point as valid - players like Carrots (before he did a Jimmy Dean and became a legend) and JR were kept in the team for extended periods as it was stated that they were doing a job.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Five, regardless of whether it is their job to tell the players to do the basics, surely you would have an issue with a player who has made it to AFL level and does not recognise how to help one of his side's gun midfielders shake a tag? A game can be gone in a quarter and players should not need to wait until the coaches address that he needs to help block more. For crying out loud, I have heard Ratten saying it for years now. But people are still saying it is the coaches fault for not coming up with a plan to help break tags. If Ratts has told them (and he has) and they are physically not doing it as much as he would like, where does the responsibility lie? It's not as though we aren't rotating players through the midfield as much as our stocks allow us.

This rubbish about the coach should be motivating them, the coach should be telling them to block, the coach should teach them how to break a tag, the coach should tell them to kick more, less, better etc ... I mean come on, does anybody think none of this has been done? When we were up and about and doing these things, did it happen by accident, and now that they have dropped off, and Ratten is screaming from the rooftops that they need to work for each other, is that not him telling them to do exactly this? Do we need transcripts of every training session word uttered, every team meeting, every private conversation between a coach and a player, between senior coach and midfield coach, between coach and runner, to satisfy ourselves that Ratten actually knows this is a problem and attempts to convey the messsage?

Ratten's responsibility is to motivate and to build a team. If a players is not motivated, it is up to him to discipline them into being motivated or moving on. Ultimately he will take responsibility for building a list that lacks consistency or motivation but jesus, I reckon the guy is tearing his hair out trying to make these guys run untiil it hurts and to show passion for the contest. The fact that we are not on the inside makes us assume none of this is being done. How many of our posters are senior AFL coaches? Ratten will pay the price in the end for what is not working on field, whether he tried to fix it or not, and some of the players that cost him his job will still be there.

The last point is extremely valid. Carrazzo's role was as a tagging midfielder who gets his own ball. I'm not saying he should be the one blocking for Judd, I'm saying that he doesn't. He is one of our best 3-4 mids who is entitled to get the ball. The 5 mid in there should be blocking and sacrificing his game and should be valued as such by our supporters instead of looking at raw stats.

Ellard cops a raw deal on raw stats, so does Armfield.

 

[Quazza]

Living here, all the Crows media is rammed down your throat. One thing though that I really noticed that rings true, was the size and hardness of the Crows players.

When Sanderson got here, he said he's be throwing away the mindless running and cycling, and focus on weights, boxing and even wrestling. That was blatantly obvious in yesterdays game. They just seemed 4-5kg's heavier than across the board, and pretty much rag dolled us around the ball