Game Day Round 8 vs. Richmond, Sat 07/05, 1:45pm MCG

[TheGreatGrundy]

Not really. We are in the eight. We would be a better team without Cal in my opinion but not a battling team.

Your assessment does not take into account the recent loss of Grundy and Krueger nor the fact that our last two wins have been against sides occupying lower rungs on the ladder. Today we beat the Suns who we struggled to put away. Two Brown brothers playing in the team is indicative of our injury toll and lack of depth. We may be in the 8 but when we play better sides than the Suns and Bombers, our lack of depth will be exposed, particularly if Cal and his brother are best 22. If we are going to pass over Cox in our quest to trial young players, then lets do the same with the Brown brothers. Some posters are defending Tyler's performance today, but if he only managed to accumulate 8 possessions, he is also not up to playing AFL football, not at this stage of his career.

Supporters get a psychological boost from seeing young players like Begg come in and show that they have the attributes to eventually become successful players. On the other hand, gifting game after game to the Brown brothers, knowing before they play the likely limited outcome of their performance, is depressing.

 

[domus]

Your assessment does not take into account the recent loss of Grundy and Krueger nor the fact that our last two wins have been against sides occupying lower rungs on the ladder. Today we beat the Suns who we struggled to put away. Two Brown brothers playing in the team is indicative of our injury toll and lack of depth. We may be in the 8 but when we play better sides than the Suns and Bombers, our lack of depth will be exposed, particularly if Cal and his brother are best 22. If we are going to pass over Cox in our quest to trial young players, then lets do the same with the Brown brothers. Some posters are defending Tyler's performance today, but if he only managed to accumulate 8 possessions, he is also not up to playing AFL football, not at this stage of his career.

Supporters get a psychological boost from seeing young players like Begg come in and show that they have the attributes to eventually become successful players. On the other hand, gifting game after game to the Brown brothers, knowing before they play the likely limited outcome of their performance, is depressing.

We also kicked nine consecutive goals against Geelong and lost by a kick to an almost full strength Lions at the Gabba. So we have really been in every game we have played this year. You can't do more than that given the expectations and current injuries to experienced, important players.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I don't think it was just about development - Cox would have been smashed in the hitouts by Witts - not by as much, but still smashed - Begg gave us a fair bit at ground level- which cox wouldn't have. Cox's ruckwork isn't an unknown - we've seen a heap of it - he's not very good.

Disagree about the smashed. If I was being conservative then I would say that Witts wins 2/3 rather then 8/10. If I was being optimistic then we compare Cox to the last time he competed in the ruck against good opposition (maybe it was about 3 years ago against a solid Patty Ryder.) Then he ends up with the same amount of hit outs as Witts. Cox may not be at the same level he was 3 years ago when he last played as an AFL main ruckman however I really wanted to see where he was at. Judging by the coach we probably wont find out though. Will be interesting to see what happens next week. My take on next week is that Nank and Soldo will destroy Cameron and Begg in the ruck. Cox I think as a tap ruckman is better then both of Richmonds rucks. Just a guess but it would be interesting to see the difference between Begg and Cox in a parallel universe.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

I’d drop Cameron before I drop Begg atm.

Surely you jest...!!

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Surely you jest...!!

Cameron is meh. He kicked 2 goals and had 4 marks. We are not winning a premiership anytime soon.

Begg has a chance to develop for the future.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

The early betting has Richmond $1.49, us at $2.64!!

 

[sr36]

Disagree about the smashed. If I was being conservative then I would say that Witts wins 2/3 rather then 8/10. If I was being optimistic then we compare Cox to the last time he competed in the ruck against good opposition (maybe it was about 3 years ago against a solid Patty Ryder.) Then he ends up with the same amount of hit outs as Witts. Cox may not be at the same level he was 3 years ago when he last played as an AFL main ruckman however I really wanted to see where he was at. Judging by the coach we probably wont find out though. Will be interesting to see what happens next week. My take on next week is that Nank and Soldo will destroy Cameron and Begg in the ruck. Cox I think as a tap ruckman is better then both of Richmonds rucks. Just a guess but it would be interesting to see the difference between Begg and Cox in a parallel universe.

I have no doubt that you're right that Cox would do better in the hitouts. But I think he would have still been pantsed and thus outcome would have been worse because we wouldn't have had our ruck giving an excellent ground level contest.

Whilst Cox hasn't played first ruck for years, he's been in enough ruck contests that we know that strong rucks just muscle him, he buckles and loses the hitout.

I think Begg will get sore and tired and Mason will get another shot, but not this week.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Cameron is meh. He kicked 2 goals and had 4 marks. We are not winning a premiership anytime soon.

Begg has a chance to develop for the future.

With 15 hit-outs and more importantly 5 tackles, so his follow-up work at ground level was good....

 

[sr36]

The early betting has Richmond $1.49, us at $2.64!!

Good value. Should be even money.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I have no doubt that you're right that Cox would do better in the hitouts. But I think he would have still been pantsed and thus outcome would have been worse because we wouldn't have had our ruck giving an excellent ground level contest.

Whilst Cox hasn't played first ruck for years, he's been in enough ruck contests that we know that strong rucks just muscle him, he buckles and loses the hitout.

To tell you the truth because Grundy takes 90% of the ruck contests im not sure if that is accurate. Don't get me wrong it happens, he does get muscled out but for every time he gets muscled out he reaches over and get the tap out (against the premier ruckman as well). Against the secondary ruck he usually dominates 3/4 times. Due to Grundy's game time and durability its hard to tell how he would go.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

With 15 hit-outs and more importantly 5 tackles, so his follow-up work at ground level was good....

I don’t really care for the ruck position atm. Grundy’ out. He will be our main man when he’s back. I rather try develop Begg in the forward / ruck role.

 

[JuniorB]

We dont have anyone with a chance of matching Witts. Selection worked well as we got a better contest at ground level than otherwise.

With Grundy out, we don't have anyone who could have matched Witts, maybe not even Grundy. We were able to negate Witts' hit out dominance to a reasonable extent, which validated selecting Begg. A shame we gave Witts away for a bag of peanuts.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Good value. Should be even money.

I wouldn't mind taking the odds for us

I don’t really care for the ruck position atm. Grundy’ out. He will be our main man when he’s back. I rather try develop Begg in the forward / ruck role.

Well your not going to throw Begg off the deep end, so he will need a hell of alot of support from Cameron. It doesn't sound like Coxy is in the picture anytime soon, so Cameron it is.. ...

 

[Apex36]

Cameron is meh. He kicked 2 goals and had 4 marks. We are not winning a premiership anytime soon.

Begg has a chance to develop for the future.

He also brought the ball to ground in multiple contests and had 6 score involvements and 5 clearances. 2 of his marks were contested. If it was Cox you’d be using those same numbers to defend him, so it’s a little hypocritical that you’re trying to justify dropping Cameron for doing a much better job than Cox has at any point in the seniors this year.

 

[JuniorB]

Im not sure why so many people want Reef back in so quickly. I like the kid, but 2 touches vs the bombers and no game time today? He can go back to the 2s and earn another run.

The problem is that our VFL side has a bye next week. Reef should have played today instead of warming the bench. So next week he either plays, or has 2 weeks without a game.

 

[KillerMagpies]

In. Henry
Out. Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

…. I really want this kid to make it. However, at AFL level he makes zero impact.

On the proviso that Ruscoe us showing form; he comes in for Madgen. Madgen is just as poor as Brown (though he busts his guts) in a really critical part of the ground. His brain farts cost us at least 3 goals per game.

 

[Cobalt King]

In: Henry
Out: Cal

Looks the obvious change but there were plenty who were quiet today. Interesting to hear Fly say he was happy with Cameron/Begg ruck so Cox looks unlikely

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

We also kicked nine consecutive goals against Geelong and lost by a kick to an almost full strength Lions at the Gabba. So we have really been in every game we have played this year. You can't do more than that given the expectations and current injuries to experienced, important players.

But since those games we have lost Grundy and Krueger, most likely for the season, forcing us to dig deeper into our player reserves.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

He also brought the ball to ground in multiple contests and had 6 score involvements and 5 clearances. 2 of his marks were contested. If it was Cox you’d be using those same numbers to defend him, so it’s a little hypocritical that you’re trying to justify dropping Cameron for doing a much better job than Cox has at any point in the seniors this year.

My response was in relation to people wanting to drop Begg for Cox. I said I rather drop Cameron than Begg (if we were to bring in Cox).

Cameron’s game was good, but I don’t see him securing a long term position.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

With 15 hit-outs and more importantly 5 tackles, so his follow-up work at ground level was good....

I thought Cameron exceeded expectations and his goal and mark haul was better than we might have expected from Grundy. No complaints from me about his performance and he was well supported by Begg who surprised me with his adjustment to AFL footy. Witts won the battle, but we won the game.

 

[Apex36]

My response was in relation to people wanting to drop Begg for Cox. I said I rather drop Cameron than Begg (if we were to bring in Cox).

Cameron’s game was good, but I don’t see him securing a long term position.

Camerons game was clearly superior to Beggs game though. There’s no justifiable basis to drop him ahead of Begg.

 

[nahnah]

People forget how unplayable Cox is because he does decent in the VFL, I have been at fault of this too. Just remember his most recent game vs the Lions where he was beyond useless. Cameron + Begg is the way to go until Begg needs a rest

 

[Unknown Identity]

Out: Madgen Brown x 2
In: Ruscoe Henry Poulter/Macrae (flip a coin)

Cameron played well enough to retain his spot and I think we need to see more of Begg (Back up ruck not an ideal role for him though)

Cox will probs be brought in though.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

needs more development in the seconds. Keep him there.
Calum has had plenty of time, use him as the sub or if needed in the midfield. He is a poor forward pocket. Happy for him to find some form in the VFL next to his brother.
Begg was good but not the answer in the ruck, if we want to play finals he is not the answer. If we want to develop him lets keep him in.


Ins: Henry, McInnes, Cox (better then Begg as a ruck but if we want to develop Begg im cool with that) and Poulter (plays the WHE role for development)
Outs: Calum, Tyler, Begg (Hey if we are serious about his development im happy for him to play instead of Cox) and WHE
Sub: WHE he is the perfect sub in my opinion because every time a Poulter, Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

, Bianco is used as a sub it takes away from their development. Lets face it they haven't had much over the lasts few years because of the lack of VFL. Its better a player like WHE plays the role.

 

[gouki88]

We need a first string ruck. Witts absolutely manhandled us today, carried them back into the game a few times. We can't go into a game against a significantly better midfield than the one with played today with him as the number 1 ruck again. 2 hit outs for the game, he was a complete non-entity at the centre bounces.

We do need a first string ruck. Problem is the only one of those we have is injured.