Ryan Griffen - stay or go?

[Tommycash]

Grif did what he had to so as all this could end sooner than later.

We were heading to a stage where more players asking for trades and wanting out.

The men that gave the coach the extension the 3 G'S could not get rid of him and what Grif did was able to bring it to a head and did the job for them.

Grif is not going to GWS for $, for family reasons, because of opportunities. He did not want to leave the Dogs he did not want to pack up and leave Melbourne he did it for his teammates

Gives his teammates are fresh start with a new coach and he will see out his career not the way he had wished.

What a crock. The guy supported the coach which is a key reason as to why the board supported him. He then came back a week later and said see you later. If it was about the coach he would have said "I can't work with him". Gordon has been bamboozled because he made a decision on the basis the coach was supported by the captain, and has the rug pulled out from under him. There should be no idealisation of Griffen. Want proof? Why hasn't he said he wants to stay now the coach is gone? Why is he reaffirming his desire to leave. Spare me the hero worship.

 

[Some Idiot]

Grif did what he had to so as all this could end sooner than later.

We were heading to a stage where more players asking for trades and wanting out.

The men that gave the coach the extension the 3 G'S could not get rid of him and what Grif did was able to bring it to a head and did the job for them.

Grif is not going to GWS for $, for family reasons, because of opportunities. He did not want to leave the Dogs he did not want to pack up and leave Melbourne he did it for his teammates

Gives his teammates are fresh start with a new coach and he will see out his career not the way he had wished.

He's leaving cause he doesn't like the spotlight and he's lost faith in the club. A large part of this is due to the pressures of the captaincy and his relationship with the coach but it's still crap from him. And negotiating with GWS for months? Piss Poor Form.

 

[dogwatch]

Then why didn't he sit there, look Gordon, Garlick and Grant right in the eye, and say, "No - as captain I don't believe these issues are workable and think change is best for the future?" Why didn't he tell the club that he wasn't happy? Why did he lie, tell the club that everything was hunky dory, then run away to Bali to have secret phone calls with another team, then have his management release a public statement hours after the club found out?

Very few are disagreeing with him voicing his concerns. We're disagreeing with a club captain lying to the club, pretending everything was fine, then organising a back door deal with GWS to stick it up us. That's absolutely gutless and I don't welcome spineless assholes at the club.

It is a good post Dan but Griff is not a natural leader and he took the soft way out and stuffed up in the process. People make mistakes and I won't condemn him for one major stuff up. I would still like to hear Griff's version of events and not just rely on Gordon and Co which IMO have let the club down.

I'm not sure we know the whole story and wouldn't mind seeing reliable sources/confessions for the following before we are absolute in our condemnation:

• That Griffen had been negotiating with GWS for months, maybe since the start of season 2014.
• That Griffen will be playing for LESS money at GWS ($500k/yr?)
• That Griffen will be playing for MORE money at GWS ($1m/yr?)
• That Griffen is leaving to join his mate Leon Cameron
• That Griffen walked to get something valuable in return for the Bulldogs
• That Griffen took the line he did solely to get rid of the coach for the sake of his young teammates even if it meant he couldn't live out his wish to remain a one-club player at the Bulldogs

I voted Yes because I think he has passed the point of no return with the administration, the players and the media. He would be a seriously compromised player if he stayed and would be a lightning rod for further strife (on the nose with fans etc), even if the players were 100% supportive. So we might as well get what we can for him and use that as a means of strengthening our list.

Whatever the truth it's a really bad look but we need to understand Griffen's situation as well. I think the two posts above come close to the problem with Griffen.

He is not, and never has been, a natural leader. Yes, he leads by example on the field (not sure what his demeanour is like off it, apart from being polite and OK for a casual chat) but he is not articulate and does not appear to have much political nous or communication skills. He is probably naive in many ways and doesn't read the lie of the land very well. He may be easily pushed or led in tricky tactical situations (e.g. pushed into the captaincy, led along by his management when he said he wasn't happy). These minor failings wouldn't matter much if he wasn't such a gun player but his football ability and great career form have landed him in centre stage and it's all playing out like a Shakespearean tragedy.

He did not have the vision, skills or strength of character (as a leader) to manage the problems before they became a crisis. Then, after being urged on by his management, he crossed the line and could not turn back.

That may well make him a rat and a liar but I think he's been propelled along in a way he hadn't expected and he's probably a bit stunned and confused by everything happening around him. It's understandable he wants to go bush with his brothers to get some perspective and get out of the spotlight but of course that just makes it look worse from a PR point of view.

So I'm not as critical as some here, but I understand the anger. I'm just sad that the club, the coach, Griffen, his managers and some of the senior players have managed it all so badly.

I grieve for my club and hope like heck the younger stars are being well-counselled. I hope they have the loyalty, belief and strength of character to hold firm and
come out the other side of this shitstorm a stronger and more determined unit under a new coach and an administration that re-unites us all.

 

[fronkalicious]

Gut feel re the kids is they couldn't give a heck about cooney, Higgins and griff leaving. It's their team now.

 

[Some Idiot]

Gut feel re the kids is they couldn't give a heck about cooney, Higgins and griff leaving. It's their team now.

I dunno, not so much Higgins and Cooney but they certainly looked up to and loved Griff

 

[boydsno1]

come on guys - sign the petition - Its certainly in the best interests of the club... Think about the future....

https://www.change.org/p/peter-gordan-simon-garlick-trade-ryan-griffen#share

Hit 150 so far.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Grif did what he had to so as all this could end sooner than later.

We were heading to a stage where more players asking for trades and wanting out.

The men that gave the coach the extension the 3 G'S could not get rid of him and what Grif did was able to bring it to a head and did the job for them.

Grif is not going to GWS for $, for family reasons, because of opportunities. He did not want to leave the Dogs he did not want to pack up and leave Melbourne he did it for his teammates

Gives his teammates are fresh start with a new coach and he will see out his career not the way he had wished.

That is possibly the greatest load of Shyte ever posted on the internet. The scenario you fantasise about would require a leader of great strength and willing to sacrifice himself for the greater cause. Absolute Shyte.

Griff is not a leader, never has been and never will be. It's just not his character. He should never have been offered the leadership and he should never have accepted it. Seems to me it was a bit of a popularity contest when decided who would replace Boyd.

What griff did over the last few weeks wasn't leadership, it was gutless. I suspect his chat after the b&f was reluctant but pressure from others forced him to do it. His response when asked his opinion ofter those resolution meetings was a gutless "yes, things should be right now". Leadership? No farkn way.

Griffens papers were stamped when he was appointed captain for which macca is part to blame.

 

[wian]

Mark Robinson today in the Sun and Gerald Wheatley were very much of the opinion that several senior players are soft and shafted the coach....

Key quotes:

"It was typical Peter Gordon on Friday: quick on his feet, passionate and honest. But his praising of the players? Spare us."

"It’s difficult to imagine McCartney abusing the players."

"From best available evidence, he was brutally honest with some senior players at their exit interviews. What did the players expect?"

"The team won seven games, lost 15 and finished 14th. Did they expect cuddles? Understanding and acceptance from the coach?"

"This is football, a challenging environment, and McCartney’s role was to get the players to confront the challenges."

"He is a driven man, McCartney, and it’s why the Bulldogs signed him in the first place. Yes, he was hard."

"At the end, Gordon spoke of honour and obligation, and if Griffen was in the room, I fully expected Gordon to get on his knees and kiss his feet."


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-then-what-is-it/story-fnp04d70-1227086828837

 

[Dogs 13]

Pressuring Griff into becoming captain was another one of McCartney's failures. I guess this was part of his developing the "whole person", not just the footballer. Not everybody wants to be in that role and they can provide leadership in other ways, which he always did on the field. McCartney and co should have been able to read and understand people better and we wouldn't be in this position of almost certainly losing a player who would otherwise have been a much loved club legend.

Yes, Griff should have said no to the role, but sometimes you're not seen favourably if you don't have that ambition and don't accept the offer. Doesn't almost everyone end up getting promoted beyond their level of competence.

 

[fronkalicious]

Pressuring Griff into becoming captain was another one of McCartney's failures. I guess this was part of his developing the "whole person", not just the footballer. Not everybody wants to be in that role and they can provide leadership in other ways, which he always did on the field. McCartney and co should have been able to read and understand people better and we wouldn't be in this position of almost certainly losing a player who would otherwise have been a much loved club legend.

Yes, Griff should have said no to the role, but sometimes you're not seen favourably if you don't have that ambition and don't accept the offer. Doesn't almost everyone end up getting promoted beyond their level of competence.

Griff felt like it was his duty to take the captaincy. Awful, awful decision by the hierarchy to ask him to do it in the first place. Massive error of judgement.

 

[Mutt]

Griffens' first failure of leadership was to accept the captaincy when he didn't want it and didn't feel comfortable with it.

To compound that mistake by negotiating an exit from the Captaincy by walking out on his contract with the club is unforgivable.

By poleaxing the club with his duplicity and willingness to hide behind lies and the misleading utterances from his management team means that I'll never forgive him, and I wish he'd never, ever had anything to do with our club.

Under no circumstances can Griffen come back.

Griffen has stuffed this all up so badly that he has also compromised our ability to get fair value for him in a trade.

heck you Ryan Griffen and the horse (or pig) that you rode in on.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Griffens' first failure of leadership was to accept the captaincy when he didn't want it and didn't feel comfortable with it.

To compound that mistake by negotiating an exit from the Captaincy by walking out on his contract with the club is unforgivable.

By poleaxing the club with his duplicity and willingness to hide behind lies and the misleading utterances from his management team means that I'll never forgive him, and I wish he'd never, ever had anything to do with our club.

Under no circumstances can Griffen come back.

Griffen has stuffed this all up so badly that he has also compromised our ability to get fair value for him in a trade.

heck you Ryan Griffen and the horse (or pig) that you rode in on.

Pretty much where I'm at with it currently too.

 

[Some Idiot]

Griffens' first failure of leadership was to accept the captaincy when he didn't want it and didn't feel comfortable with it.

To compound that mistake by negotiating an exit from the Captaincy by walking out on his contract with the club is unforgivable.

By poleaxing the club with his duplicity and willingness to hide behind lies and the misleading utterances from his management team means that I'll never forgive him, and I wish he'd never, ever had anything to do with our club.

Under no circumstances can Griffen come back.

Griffen has stuffed this all up so badly that he has also compromised our ability to get fair value for him in a trade.

heck you Ryan Griffen and the horse (or pig) that you rode in on.

Being the type of person he is, it would have been hard for him to say no, he would have felt pressured. It was a bad call.

 

[SonOfScray]

Being the type of person he is, it would have been hard for him to say no, he would have felt pressured. It was a bad call.

Actions have consequences. He has shown a real lack of honesty in this scenario and in doing so caused irreparable damage.

 

[bullish23]

Griffen has not only abandoned the club, but done the exact opposite of what he told Grant and Gordon (to their faces) what he would do. Thats the real hurt here.

Further of all the clubs why choose GWS.....simple, because of the money. The way he has handled this has created the biggest sh1tstorm the club has fronted since 89. Far, far different to how Ablett and Franklin handled their moves and how Reiwoldt handled the Waters scenario (apparently). P1ss him off asap

 

[dogwatch]

So in hindsight we'd have been better taking Franklin at pick 3, eh?

 

[Dogsman16]

So in hindsight we'd have been better taking Franklin at pick 3, eh?

Think we should have taken a risk and gone with Tambling instead

 

[Some Idiot]

Actions have consequences. He has shown a real lack of honesty in this scenario and in doing so caused irreparable damage.

I agree whole heartedly

 

[DylanW]

So in hindsight we'd have been better taking Franklin at pick 3, eh?

Probably get more compo for Griffen

 

[wian]

So is there any latest news on the radio regarding the clubs stance on Griff or whether Griff is definitely going? I heard Scott West spoke to him the other day.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Gordon has been bamboozled because he made a decision on the basis the coach was supported by the captain, and has the rug pulled out from under him.

This is something I am struggling to understand.

We had a comprehensive review of the coaching dept. A the conclusion of this comprehensive review the outcome hinged on what Griffen said. Knowing that griffen isn't a natural leader nor a great communicator how the hell was so much weight put on the opinion of one man, captain or not.

The management of this situation has been awful and macca seems to be the only one who isn't looking like an arse clown.

On another note, anyone else think things might have been different if Boyd had stayed captain?

 

[Mofra]

Probably get more compo for Griffen

We would have gotten pick #5 last year, the same compo Hawks got (immediately after first pick in the draft)

 

[ThirdLegUp]

This is something I am struggling to understand.

We had a comprehensive review of the coaching dept. A the conclusion of this comprehensive review the outcome hinged on what Griffen said. Knowing that griffen isn't a natural leader nor a great communicator how the hell was so much weight put on the opinion of one man, captain or not.

The management of this situation has been awful and macca seems to be the only one who isn't looking like an arse clown.

On another note, anyone else think things might have been different if Boyd had stayed captain?

Simple...Gordon telling more fibs, there conclusion was not based on griffens approval. The real mess here is a board who could not see the golden opportunity that presented itself as the crowning glory of a new 'change' at the dogs to put the strawberry on the cake of all the "new everything' trend they were going with. All illusion, nothing new, when the moment came, it was the same old bulldog illness that won out.

 

[AjsGuns]

Ryan Griffen seriously needs to go, just send him to GWS for as much as we can get, If its only #4 and #19 (over #7) then so be it. I'll be seriously disgusted if he is at the club in 2015.

 

[_Mike_]

Emotions, vents, rants aside for a moment..

From a glass half full perspective, it would be favorable to trade for Griffen now rather than him leaving as an FA at the end of next year leaving the AFL to decide our compensation.

With everything that has happened we need to make a bit of a clean break in more than one direction (McCartney). Griffen has to take some responsibility with what has happened and how he has dealt with it. The best outcome for the club is to appoint a coach with a proven track record, a record of success and premierships where applicable (VFL included) and someone who has the maturity and experience to sort out player issues and set everyone back on the same level.

I wouldnt worry to much about Cooney for similar reasons and even though he's a brownlow medal winner with us, he too wants to go elsewhere. Moral of the story - dont hang on to players who dont want to be around. Make the break for the better of the club and move forward.