Saints - window officially shut

[aussierulesrules]

St Kilda struggle to contain tall forward lines, forget about Waite & Hampsen...they are B graders at best

You're talking a lot of shit in that post, but this part really caught my eye, as it is where the majority of our improvement in coming weeks and months could come from.

Firstly, Waite is very good and has kicked a lot of goals against us in recent years, including during our 2009/2010 period, where we hardly lost a match. And Hampson has been terrific this year especially with his contested marking.

Having said that, tonight we were without our two best down back in Sam Fisher (who other teams don't try to tag out of games for no reason) and James Gwilt, who, when he did his knee last year was in clearly in our top 6 or 7 and was going fantastically well down back.

Both of them could be back as early as next week, if not the week after, so that will improve our backline by a significant amount in one hit and make us far stronger in the air there.

Having said that, Tom Simpkin has been a bit of a revelation at FB for us this year and I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't lost a single one on one contest for year and I'm not kidding. His one on one work has been fantastic and he also reads the ball well to intercept mark and has a very cool head. Pretty much all the things Dawson was lacking he has in spades. If he had Dawson's height and agility for that height he would be perfect, but right now he's looking damn good at 191cm.

Jason Blake has also had a couple of his all time best games down back this season so far and Dempster has also been fighting above his height and will be able to go back to his normal tagging roles more once we get Fisher and Gwilt back.

Our backline is also one of the very best in the comp at working as a unit. They all peel off brilliantly and that means few sides have a lot of one on one marking chances up forward against us.

 

[Plugger35]

sorry buddy, your list was far greater 5 years ago and you didn't see a premiership so why do you believe they do it in 2012?

Have you forgotten that Port Adelaide defeated you in round 1?
Premiership contenders do not lose to either one of Melbourne, GWS, Suns or Port Power.

It's never easy to win at AAMI and we got shafted with some terrible biased home town umpiring. Geelong got flogged by Adelaide at AAMI so does that mean they aren't premiership contenders?

We just beat Carlton who are the premiership favourites without Fisher and McEvoy who are two of our most important players, not to mention missing Gwilt and Schneider who are yet to play this year.

If you still want to write St Kilda off as premiership contenders this year and say our window is shut then you're an idiot.

 

[kosifantutti]

Talking about yourself is verbalising how you feel inside - a written recall of an intellectual internal debate.

Attention seeking whoring is coming into a thread and trashing other people for some lame attempt at recogintion. I'm looking at you Timmy - I see that you are magnificant in the bent over position, you whore.

Actually I thought for a change Timmy nailed it.

 

[footscore]

It's never easy to win at AAMI and we got shafted with some terrible biased home town umpiring. Geelong got flogged by Adelaide at AAMI so does that mean they aren't premiership contenders?

We just beat Carlton who are the premiership favourites without Fisher and McEvoy who are two of our most important players, not to mention missing Gwilt and Schneider who are yet to play this year.

If you still want to write St Kilda off as premiership contenders this year and say our window is shut then you're an idiot.

We got flogged yes, are we premiership contenders?
I still believe so but unless we win on Friday night, I will certainly change my view.
Understand AAMI is tough to play at but you cannot excuse the ill-discipline those Port players go through during games. I know they were up in RD1 but still had periods where any other top team would have capitalized which Saints failed to do.

Only the media has rated Carlton, I personally never rated them above West Coast, Hawthorn, Geelong or Collingwood. Don't follow what the media say or throw at you, even the bookies are doing their best to make sure people take the Blues or Essendon as they want their money come the end of the year.

I don't think Montagna is the same player anymore and his run and disposal was excellent in 2009 or 2010. Del Santo has been a gun but the tag is back and he's having trouble breaking free.
Hayes is a freak...absolute gun but you just cannot rely on a 32 year old to win a flag.
Milne is similar, Schneider is good but he's not a champion. He won't make a difference to your side now that Saad or the other little bloke are kicking goals.
You also can't look at injuries as an excuse because the system should be strong enough to counter the player who is out.

Do like Armitage, he's as tough as they come and some good young talent starting to emerge but if you look at the top teams in the comp, they all have champions across every line and don't have to rely on 5 or 6 stars to do the job.
Carlton's back line is too short and slow, their midfield is excellent along with the ruck stocks but it's down forward where they break down.
St Kilda just match up very well with Carlton as we saw last year and before so don't read all that much into it is all.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Understand AAMI is tough to play at but you cannot excuse the ill-discipline those Port players go through during games. I know they were up in RD1 but still had periods where any other top team would have capitalized which Saints failed to do.

Port in round one were terrific and were relentless for the 4 quarters. They were unrecognisable from the Port of the last year or so.

They were really up at that stage, while we were playing our first match for premiership points under Watters and of course we were coming off a very interrupted preseason, where we missed one NAB Cup match altogether (when Essendon didn't show up) and the following week we only got to play a very shortened match (12 or 13 min quarters, plus time on) that started in 36 deg heat in Perth.

That was a far from ideal way to go into the season when we needed as many good games as we could get, to get used to the way Watters wanted us to play.

We were as flat as a tack at the start of that game and before we knew what had hit us, Port were up by 6 goals (in the first quarter). We eventually got rolling, but as just about anyone who saw that game (who didn't barrack for Port) agreed, we got seriously shafted by some dreadful umpiring and ended up falling a goal short.

Hardly a disgrace, under all those circumstances.

We then lost to Freo by a goal, on a night when they kicked everything in sight and Lyon clearly outcoached Watters and our only other loss was to Hawthorn, when Buddy and Cyril went beserk and kicked 11 between them, many of which happened after Fisher, who had been doing a great job down back, got injured just before halftime.

Having said that, we hadn't played our best footy for any more than about a 10 minute burst in any of our first 6 games, but we did it for a lot longer tonight, so hopefully we're just really beginning to adjust to the way Watters wants us to play, which is pretty significantly different from the way we'd been playing for years.

If we maintain the pressure and intensity that we played with tonight for the remainder of the season, I don't expect there will be many teams that will beat us. It will be very important that we manage the new ones on the team though, like Collingwood did two years ago and Geelong did last year, or they probably won't maintain this level of performance for the whole season.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Saints still in it. Too many quality players on the list not to be able to turn a switch.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Last night may or may not have any bearing on the season, who knows? It's far too early to make any calls. But taking the game itself on its merits, there was a lot to like about it.

We kicked equivalent of twenty goals. First time we have done that against a genuinely decent side (ie not a bottom four or disappointing or average side) since 2009.

Our pressure and intensity was terrific. Our disposal was better than its been on year but being first to the ball helped a lot.

Milne had a good night, but some backing up by Saad, Milera and Stanley was very nice to see. It's good to know we have other small forwards capable of chipping in.

Pace. For years we saints fans have been praying for some genuine leg speed. Last night we saw it on spades!

Kosi, Roo, Dal Santo and Montagna were all quiet yet we still had a comfortable victory. It's good to know we don't have to rely on the same old personnel.

We're not out of the woods yet by any stretch but last night indicated our future may not be as dark as some are predicting.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Last weeks round of games adds to what people have been saying for a few weeks now.....that its a very wide open season.

Without making this comment about StKilda specifically, its probably a good year to be on the "decline"....as there are no teams at the top that are dominating like they have in previous seasons.

So the window that may otherwise be shut (or not open yet) may actually be open. Problem is of course that the window is open to a lot more teams, and only one can win it.....but the winner may come from a deeper pool than usual. As I said this doesnt jsut apply to StKilda though, it also applies to Geelong and Collingwood who pundits have called for them to go backwards, or Adelaide and Sydney who probably wernt expected to be contenders this year. Or even Freo or Essendon. Theres others too.

Its turning into a hugely interesting season. Every round is going to be full of the proverbial "eight point games", and as we near September the top four and hence the premiership may be decided by a kick.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Port in round one were terrific and were relentless for the 4 quarters. They were unrecognisable from the Port of the last year or so.

They were really up at that stage, while we were playing our first match for premiership points under Watters and of course we were coming off a very interrupted preseason, where we missed one NAB Cup match altogether (when Essendon didn't show up) and the following week we only got to play a very shortened match (12 or 13 min quarters, plus time on) that started in 36 deg heat in Perth.

That was a far from ideal way to go into the season when we needed as many good games as we could get, to get used to the way Watters wanted us to play.

We were as flat as a tack at the start of that game and before we knew what had hit us, Port were up by 6 goals (in the first quarter). We eventually got rolling, but as just about anyone who saw that game (who didn't barrack for Port) agreed, we got seriously shafted by some dreadful umpiring and ended up falling a goal short.

Hardly a disgrace, under all those circumstances.

We then lost to Freo by a goal, on a night when they kicked everything in sight and Lyon clearly outcoached Watters and our only other loss was to Hawthorn, when Buddy and Cyril went beserk and kicked 11 between them, many of which happened after Fisher, who had been doing a great job down back, got injured just before halftime.

Having said that, we hadn't played our best footy for any more than about a 10 minute burst in any of our first 6 games, but we did it for a lot longer tonight, so hopefully we're just really beginning to adjust to the way Watters wants us to play, which is pretty significantly different from the way we'd been playing for years.

If we maintain the pressure and intensity that we played with tonight for the remainder of the season, I don't expect there will be many teams that will beat us. It will be very important that we manage the new ones on the team though, like Collingwood did two years ago and Geelong did last year, or they probably won't maintain this level of performance for the whole season.

I think this a pretty fair assessment of where we are at.

That gameplan comment is the key really. It's been five years since we've played a new style of football so we've been used to playing something completely different. Remember 2007? It took us probably until halfway through the following year to finally get the idea how to play that style of footy.

Now we are starting from scratch again. But with the right blend of youth and experience, hopefully it will take less than fifteen months to click.

Time will tell of course but early signs are that we are heading on the right track.

 

[The Punter]

Sometimes it is instructive to look at what a collective of people who watched the same game thought about it.

On Saintsational, 26 fans have given their votes for the game. Those votes have been shared among 15 different players; Riewoldt and Goddard are not among them (the other five are the sub Siposs, Koschitzke, Geary, Gilbert & Wilkes).

St Kilda kicked 19 goals last night - Riewoldt and Koschitzke kicked two of them. Nine other players kicked goals.

St Kilda currently have three players on pace to kick 40 goals this season.

St Kilda's two most consistent midfielders this season are Lenny Hayes ... and Jack Steven.

St Kilda did not have it's best defender and it's best ruckman in the team last night.

James Gwilt and Adam Schneider have 0 senior games between them this season.

There's plenty to like about St Kilda right now. That doesn't mean much with such a strong contest for finals positions (put a line through Melb, GWS, GC, Bris & PA, and the Doggies will find it tough, but the other 12 teams are in it up to their necks), but it's nice to go to the footy without expectation. I thoroughly enjoyed last night, and he's to more nights like it.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Good points there Punter.

 

[NOCHANCE]

Sometimes it is instructive to look at what a collective of people who watched the same game thought about it.

On Saintsational, 26 fans have given their votes for the game. Those votes have been shared among 15 different players; Riewoldt and Goddard are not among them (the other five are the sub Siposs, Koschitzke, Geary, Gilbert & Wilkes).

St Kilda kicked 19 goals last night - Riewoldt and Koschitzke kicked two of them. Nine other players kicked goals.

St Kilda currently have three players on pace to kick 40 goals this season.

St Kilda's two most consistent midfielders this season are Lenny Hayes ... and Jack Steven.

St Kilda did not have it's best defender and it's best ruckman in the team last night.

James Gwilt and Adam Schneider have 0 senior games between them this season.

There's plenty to like about St Kilda right now. That doesn't mean much with such a strong contest for finals positions (put a line through Melb, GWS, GC, Bris & PA, and the Doggies will find it tough, but the other 12 teams are in it up to their necks), but it's nice to go to the footy without expectation. I thoroughly enjoyed last night, and he's to more nights like it.

I thought Geary was in your best to be honest he killed Garlett. Gilbert wasnt great but he clearly outpointed Walker.

Cant believe you guys got Milera and SAAD for next to nothing. Milera and Maric are by far the recruits of the year to date.

 

[The Punter]

Geary is having a very good year, save for Rioli getting a hold of him last week.

 

[Falchoon]

The thing that I was so happy about tonight was the pressuring you mentioned and the ferocious attack on the ball, or whoever had the ball for Carlton.

The other pleasing thing was the genuine smiles and excitement of our players.



It's a long time since St Kilda have gone in as underdogs ($4.40 ) and undone an opponent like that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

It's never easy to win at AAMI and we got shafted with some terrible biased home town umpiring. Geelong got flogged by Adelaide at AAMI so does that mean they aren't premiership contenders?

We just beat Carlton who are the premiership favourites without Fisher and McEvoy who are two of our most important players, not to mention missing Gwilt and Schneider who are yet to play this year.

If you still want to write St Kilda off as premiership contenders this year and say our window is shut then you're an idiot.

Yes, yes it does.

St Kilda aren't premiership contenders this year and their window is shut and I'm not an idiot.

 

[The Punter]

St Kilda window officially closed. Too many recycled players. Not playing the youth enough. Insufficient spread.

Sorry, I just had a "meaningless modern football cliche" explosion.

 

[TassieSaint]

The only thing keeping our window open at the moment is the competition this year. Very, very even across the top 10 or so teams I can't remember a year like it.

If ever a team was going to snatch a flag from outside the 4 I'd say it would be this year. Saints would be a very, very long shot though

 

[Simple Jack]

The only thing keeping our window open at the moment is the competition this year. Very, very even across the top 10 or so teams I can't remember a year like it.

If ever a team was going to snatch a flag from outside the 8 I'd say it would be this year. Saints would be a very, very long shot though

I will guarantee you, right now, no team will snatch the flag from outside the 8.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I thought Geary was in your best to be honest he killed Garlett. Gilbert wasnt great but he clearly outpointed Walker.

Cant believe you guys got Milera and SAAD for next to nothing. Milera and Maric are by far the recruits of the year to date.

That Jack Steven guy seems to have lifted it a level too.

Most notable thing for me wsa seeing Saints playing an attacking free flowing brand.

 

[smoovy]

If Beau Wilkes is 26, then I'm about 103.

I haven't seen an AFL listed player look so old since Andrew Wills went around.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

If Beau Wilkes is 26, then I'm about 103.

I haven't seen an AFL listed player look so old since Andrew Wills went around.

Beau looks at least Lenny's age and Lenny looks younger than Beau's age

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Most notable thing for me was seeing Saints playing an attacking free flowing brand.

St Kilda showed a great visual display, reminded me of Geelong of not so long ago, hope their mojo comes back....

 

[bunsen burner]

Dear Saints fans,

Your window is still closed. You beat the premiership favourite and all of a sudden you think you can win a flag in the next few years? Get your dicks out of your hands. All you're doing is prolonging the time it will take to get back to the open window.

ps Beau Wilkes' age is written on the back of his jumper.

 

[TommyJay]

Dear Saints fans,

Your window is still closed. You beat the premiership favourite and all of a sudden you think you can win a flag in the next few years? Get your dicks out of your hands. All you're doing is prolonging the time it will take to get back to the open window.

ps Beau Wilkes' age is written on the back of his jumper.

So...if we lost last night, we are more likely to win a premiership soon?

 

[Zahki]

It was a good win over Carlton but lets not go nuts. The Saints have no chance of winning the flag this year, they'll be competitive and play finals, but they're not a top 4 team.