Sam Newman- people have had enough of this shameless racist.

[_Mike_]

Hey folks, just a friendly reminder that this thread is about Sam Newman. All discussion on the upcoming referendum - please continue ON THE SRP BOARD

 

[Mesc]

Well s**t, sounds like something The Voice could give some input on. Dontchathink?

That didnt answer the question.

 

[CM86]

How the * do you know white supremacists?! Where do you live for these people to be around

Id suggest this isnt real and just hyperbolic nonsense?

He's explaining the position of general supremacy.

It's not the Hitler loving Nazi position. It's the idea that a person genuinely believes they're superior to an Indigenous person.

And he's right in terms of how blatant and frequent it it.

The fact that Indigenous people are so vastly over represented in negative outcomes in Australia... and it isn't one of the most important issues... is evidence of a supremacy view over Indigenous people.
In that Indigenous outcomes are a fault of being Indigenous, rather than outside influences.

 

[Dogs till i die]

no one cares. Its got nothing to do with you. I know thats hard to grasp

But it does have something to do with Christianity...and me, you see we get to vote.

 

[CM86]

But it does have something to do with Christianity...and me, you see we get to vote.

It's fantastic how this issue has made so many alt accounts active again!

So many new accounts, and so many 20 year old accounts with 1000 posts!

 

[zeggie]

That didnt answer the question.

I would ask The Voice those questions and form an opinion after hearing said answers.

 

[CM86]

Two questions. I'll Label Q1 and Q2.

Q1: Can a single poster, who's arguing in anyway against "Welcome to Country", explain specifically why they think Indigenous people are, (again) specifically over represented in negative outcomes in Australia.

Without mentioning some form of 'genetics, culture, DNA, tradition', etc etc???


Can they explain why all across Australia, from remote communities to thriving major cities, this specific group of Australians are over-represented in negative outcomes?

When you can't explain it, without referring to 'genetics' in some way... will you start to accept that maybe, just maybe... it might be societal exclusion, generational trauma, and systemic racism?




Q2: Can a single poster explain why they are against 'tokenism'?????
Tokenism is important, because it normalises ideas/concepts/views/people in our society.

That's why things like ANZAC day are almost universally supported, without question until more recently. Because it was normalised with tokenism.

In my opinion, arguing that you oppose something purely because it's tokenism... is arguing that you oppose it being normalised in society.

It's only tokenism, until it's irrelevant.
And clearly, with so many blatantly racist and/or ignorant views of what Welcome to Country is... This tokenism is desperately needed.


Why do you oppose this tokenism?

Just pointing out that this is actively ignored and run from.

 

[Mesc]

I would ask The Voice those questions and form an opinion after hearing said answers.

So you have a very strong opinion but no answers?

 

[zeggie]

So you have a very strong opinion but no answers?

Yes. But others do. And more important opinions and answers than mine could be.

Sort of why we want to give them....a Voice.

You're only against change on a personal level. You don't give a shit otherwise. Or you're just old and scared of change.

 

[schneebly111]

You think wrong. This thread shows different. Just look at social media, and speak to people in real life and you'll see they will boo.

We’re about to find out imminently…..

 

[caveman72]

No.

I have a general idea. Thousands of years ago.

And I also have a general idea that you'll try to explain to me that Welcome to Country is a recent thing... based on the concept that it was only relatively recently that it was made public...

My understanding in basic terms and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Is that sometime in the 70s or 80s there were a group of Maori performers in Australia and they asked why the local indiginous people didn't have something like the Haka. One ot those asked was Ernie Dingo and he and another guy or others then came up with the welcome to country. I have no idea on how much of that is fact or fiction but I have heard it from several sources and no idea why it to as long as it did to made as prominant as it is now. I have also been told by an indiginous friend the these ceromonies should be done by males for males and same for females.

 

[zeggie]

Well what do you want to see happen? What can be done?

Your turn.

 

[CM86]

My understanding in basic terms and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Is that sometime in the 70s or 80s there were a group of Maori performers in Australia and they asked why the local indiginous people didn't have something like the Haka. One ot those asked was Ernie Dingo and he and another guy or others then came up with the welcome to country. I have no idea on how much of that is fact or fiction but I have heard it from several sources and no idea why it to as long as it did to made as prominant as it is now. I have also been told by an indiginous friend the these ceromonies should be done by males for males and same for females.

Yes, so exactly my point.


Your 'understanding', is based on the fact that it was only made public relatively recently.
As in, a step towards acknowledging and accepting Indigenous culture was only opened to non-Indigenous people relatively recently.


And because it was only made public, relatively recently, certain people need to pretend that it isn't thousands of years old.
"Well, if they didn't share it with us before then... it doesn't exist, right?!?".

Welcome to Country is just saying, hey, this land that owns all of us is important and we respect it. And we welcome all those that are on this land to respect it as we do.

You're welcome to respect this land as we do, or you're free to not. But we welcome you to.



That's the hate, and the desire for booing...

 

[caveman72]

View attachment 1810763

Yes, so exactly my point.


Your 'understanding', is based on the fact that it was only made public relatively recently.
As in, a step towards acknowledging and accepting Indigenous culture was only opened to non-Indigenous people relatively recently.


And because it was only made public, relatively recently, certain people need to pretend that it isn't thousands of years old.
"Well, if they didn't share it with us before then... it doesn't exist, right?!?".

Welcome to Country is just saying, hey, this land that owns all of us is important and we respect it. And we welcome all those that are on this land to respect it as we do.

You're welcome to respect this land as we do, or you're free to not. But we welcome you to.



That's the hate, and the desire for booing...

I suggest you have a quick read of this and educate yourself

How Welcome To Country was created by Ernie Dingo and mates in 1976

Ernie Dingo's dance troupe came up with the new ritual in 1976 after an awkward stand-off with Maori and Cook Islanders who refused to perform at an arts festival until they were ritually welcomed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mesc]

Your turn.

I will consider you flummoxed then.

 

[schneebly111]

I suggest you have a quick read of this and educate yourself

How Welcome To Country was created by Ernie Dingo and mates in 1976

Ernie Dingo's dance troupe came up with the new ritual in 1976 after an awkward stand-off with Maori and Cook Islanders who refused to perform at an arts festival until they were ritually welcomed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That article states the Welcome is based on traditions thousands of years old.

 

[The Sultan]

Good to see the crowd were respectful… stick that up your arse fossil

 

[CM86]

I suggest you have a quick read of this and educate yourself

How Welcome To Country was created by Ernie Dingo and mates in 1976

Ernie Dingo's dance troupe came up with the new ritual in 1976 after an awkward stand-off with Maori and Cook Islanders who refused to perform at an arts festival until they were ritually welcomed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ok, sure. I will...

But can I first requote myself explaining why that article is wrong and misleading?


And how I literally addressed the fact that you'd rely on it, in my previous, previous reply?

View attachment 1810763

Yes, so exactly my point.


Your 'understanding', is based on the fact that it was only made public relatively recently.
As in, a step towards acknowledging and accepting Indigenous culture was only opened to non-Indigenous people relatively recently.


And because it was only made public, relatively recently, certain people need to pretend that it isn't thousands of years old.
"Well, if they didn't share it with us before then... it doesn't exist, right?!?".

Welcome to Country is just saying, hey, this land that owns all of us is important and we respect it. And we welcome all those that are on this land to respect it as we do.

You're welcome to respect this land as we do, or you're free to not. But we welcome you to.



That's the hate, and the desire for booing...

 

[Roby]

I understand your position, and your reasons for reacting the way you have.
But Kram isn't in that list.

He's genuinely a good person, who will engage in good faith. Regardless of where lines are drawn in terms of ideologies.

Well they shouldn't have posted a false equivalency.

I responded to a post that because Sam Newman knows Indegenous Australians he can't be a racist.

Kram did not like my argument, and then started to question my integrity by asking if I knew any Aboriginals, which I responded by saying this is irrelevant and then assumed I know none, which is far from the truth, in fact I know many, including a friend who committed suicide 15 years ago due to the abuse and racism he had to endure over the years.

 

[Roby]

I'm finding it hard to believe you know a single person in real life.

Go cry

 

[NaturalDisaster]

THey are doing the national anthem now

omg sick of them shoving this down our throats

so woke of the AFL to bring politics and nationalism into it constantly

 

[schneebly111]

Good to see the crowd were respectful… stick that up your arse fossil

Yep online feedback there was no booing - looks like Newman was completely ignored.

But when have we had to remove our hats for the anthem? Isn’t that an American thing?

 

[CM86]

Well they shouldn't have posted a false equivalency.

I responded to a post that because Sam Newman knows Indegenous Australians he can't be a racist.

Kram did not like my argument, and then started to question my integrity by asking if I knew any Aboriginals, which I responded by saying this is irrelevant and then assumed I know none, which is far from the truth, in fact I know many, including a friend who committed suicide 15 years ago due to the abuse and racism he had to endure over the years.

Sorry.

 

[spinynorman]

Yep online feedback there was no booing - looks like Newman was completely ignored.

Long may it continue.

 

[bzparkes]

****, my life's ruined after hearing the Welcome to Country.

End me

 

[schneebly111]

Long may it continue.

And if they didn’t do it tonight they’ll forget this 24hr ‘story’ in a week’s time.

If 90,000 Collingwood fans after a few Friday night beers didn’t boo then no one will.