Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[AppleMagnets]

'Pendlebury is not a difference maker, and you know that....'

Despite Pendlebury collecting 11 possessions and using them magnificently in the last quarter of the most recent game he played.

A Grand Final.

Where his team won 4 points.

As a 35 year old.

Just when you thought you'd seen it all on BigFooty, Falcon v13 further lowers the bar.

Yeah good player, not a difference maker, 383 games age 35, takes over in the dying stage of the 3rd then goes on to kill it in the final quarter. But some think he’s not a difference maker lmao.

 

[Pistol Night]

'Pendlebury is not a difference maker, and you know that....'

Despite Pendlebury collecting 11 possessions and using them magnificently in the last quarter of the most recent game he played.

A Grand Final.

Where his team won 4 points.

As a 35 year old.

Just when you thought you'd seen it all on BigFooty, Falcon v13 further lowers the bar.

Not to mention the fact we have to 'imagine' what Martin would have done if he was to play 5 more games this season. Do we need to 'imagine' Martin playing in the do or die round 22 match against St Kilda, for which he was 'managed', and winning the game off his own boot to propel Richmond into finals and an unprecedented run to the 2023 premiership?

That made no difference

 

[Heaps of fun]

I'll remember him as one of the best mids to never win a Brownlow.

 

[Gethelred]

Gun.

Better than Luke Hodge? Probably not. Better than Dusty? Probably not.

A consistently clean, calm, intelligent player who is untackleable for seemingly no reason. Wrongfoots tacklers by merely existing. Guarantees quality clearances by taking possession. Goes slow or fast dependent on what the team needs.

Had they won in 2017, he'd probably have higher standing; 'premiership captain' and whatnot.

Honestly, a little like Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

36

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

. Consistently in the top 5 mids of his generation (and a few subsequent generations) but never the best player in the comp.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Man Richmond fans online are truely bottom of the barrel. Not a difference maker? LOL that is the biggest bunch of drivel I’ve ever heard that makes whatever paragraph you type invalid and clearly biased.

Fact is on total career it’s been better objectively than even Bucks and Swan, by a distance now and anything after that is the cherry on top.

I’m really surprised when Pies fans rate Pendles ahead of Buckley.

Buckley had the consistency of a Pendles, but also the brilliance of a Swan.

Bucks in his early career was an absolute one-on-one animal - will never forget being at the G and watching him go the CHB and flog Wayne Carey, getting 30 touches and holding Carey goalless.

We don’t have the stats, but Bucks also would have had massive metres gained with high disposal efficiency, as he’d regularly pinpoint kicks 60m. Also loved a goal and averaged 1 over his whole career.

 

[Unpredictable]

'Pendlebury is not a difference maker, and you know that....'

Despite Pendlebury collecting 11 possessions and using them magnificently in the last quarter of the most recent game he played.

A Grand Final.

Where his team won 4 points.

As a 35 year old.

Slowpoke trotted around for 4 quarters on a hot day, so it's no wonder he had more left in the tank than others.

Not to mention the fact we have to 'imagine' what Martin would have done if he was to play 5 more games this season.

You're missing the point, you guys have been comparing the stats of a midfielder to those of a midfielder/forward for a reason.

So Pendlebury the midfielder had 34 more disposals than Martin (a midfielder/forward) during the 2023 H&A season, and that's with 2 extra games, but because he's 35 we should all marvel at his season?

So now we've got age to add to longevity and consistency, you've just made him an even better player!

 

[Mr Meow]

Slowpoke trotted around for 4 quarters on a hot day, so it's no wonder he had more left in the tank than others.

You're missing the point, you guys have been comparing the stats of a midfielder to those of a midfielder/forward for a reason.

So Pendlebury the midfielder had 34 more disposals than Martin (a midfielder/forward) during the 2023 H&A season, and that's with 2 extra games, but because he's 35 we should all marvel at his season?

So now we've got age to add to longevity and consistency, you've just made him an even better player!

It's difficult to see what point you made during any of that.

And yes, just like we marvel at 18 year olds who step in and play an important role well at AFL level, we're allowed to do that with 35 year old veterans who are crucial components of premiership sides. Almost every player in history retired a couple of years earlier than that for a reason.

Just like a film director's legacy increases with their catalogue of great films, so does a footballer with seasons. It would be different if he was borderline best 22 and looked like he stayed on too long.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Martin 3 years younger.

Let's see how it looks when their careers are over.

Then factor in leadership.

Leadership? Pies won a flag just before Pendlebury became captain, and won a flag just after he lost the captaincy. In his time as captain they lost a GF after leading 5-goals to zip against the Eagles (who were missing 3 x AA players), and lost the unloseable PF at the MCG with GWS missing 4 of their best players.

I don’t recall any moments of great leadership from his 2 x SI’s in the ‘18 GF with no inside-50’s, no goals and no goal assists.

His 18 touch, no goals, no goal assists and 3 x SI 2019 PF didn’t exude great leadership in a game they just had to win either.

Off-field Collingwood has probably had more controversy than any other club except Essendon during his time there as a leader - extensive racism from within the playing group the club has admitted to, PED suspensions etc… so let’s not pretend the overall leadership of which Pendlebury was a major player was any sort of beacon to aspire to at the Pies.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SuperSub17]

Now apparently the racism stuff was Pendlebury’s fault.

My god, can we just have 5 minutes where Richmond supporters aren’t clogging up the board with their inane bullshit?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Now apparently the racism stuff was Pendlebury’s fault.

My god, can we just have 5 minutes where Richmond supporters aren’t clogging up the board with their inane bullshit?

Their jealousy is at an all-time high. They look up the Premiership ladder and see Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon all on 16 flags, they are starved of a Premiership in the modern day (post COVID), their crowd and membership figures have been left behind, they have one of the worst lists in the league and they cannot compete with Collingwood in any way. They are hurting, so they cling to every thread trying their best to be significant in some way.

 

[Mr Meow]

Their jealousy is at an all-time high. They look up the Premiership ladder and see Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon all on 16 flags, they are starved of a Premiership in the modern day (post COVID), their crowd and membership figures have been left behind, they have one of the worst lists in the league and they cannot compete with Collingwood in any way. They are hurting, so they cling to every thread trying their best to be significant in some way.

Insecurities are coming out because one poster suggests Pendlebury may be one of the best players to debut this century and merely asked others where he ranked and why. The discussion is not outlandish enough to get huge push back from neutrals.

They equate that with a squadron of Richmond supporters that have consistently campaigned Martin's credentials as the greatest player of all time. While doing this there was often serious downgrading or even ridiculing of other champions careers/performances. Hence there was a bit of pushback. That doesn't at all mean Pendlebury has had a better career than Martin's but it seems it is insulting for some that they are considered anywhere in the same league.

 

[Fadge]

Their jealousy is at an all-time high. They look up the Premiership ladder and see Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon all on 16 flags, they are starved of a Premiership in the modern day (post COVID), their crowd and membership figures have been left behind, they have one of the worst lists in the league and they cannot compete with Collingwood in any way. They are hurting, so they cling to every thread trying their best to be significant in some way.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for them again, in the same way that I wore a Richmond jumper throughout the 2017 finals series.

They really are miserable souls.

 

[RichLeMonde]

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for them again, in the same way that I wore a Richmond jumper throughout the 2017 finals series.

They really are miserable souls.

I think there’s a bit of projection going on here.

You guys just won the flag. You should be on a football high all summer that nothing can bring down. But all it took was a few oppo supporters disagreeing with the ranking of SP as 4th best this century to bring out outrage, anger, and name calling from the Collingwood faithful. You guys seem bitterly resentful of the fact that no everyone shares that assessment.

Even you Fadge asked me whether I enjoyed watching SP’s final quarter in the GF, as though I had some personal, emotional investment in wanting to see SP fail.

I’m happy for the Pies and SP. I just enjoy trying to analyse how we might evaluate the different facets of midfield play. I might actually head over to the Dusty = GOAT thread, which I’ve avoided so far, and put the same statistical blowtorch to Dusty that I’ve put to SP, to demonstrate just how far below GOAT status he is.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

In terms of his top end football ability, there are plenty that go past him. However, in terms of his remarkable consistency in a high-performing team for the entirety of his career.. Not sure many get close to Pendles.

He did just put his team on his back in the fourth quarter of one of the best Grand Finals in modern history. He still looks like he belongs and he moves like he did in his late 20's. He is a seriously remarkable player and an on-field leader that naturally lifts those around him.

It's very hard to put a number on where he ranks in terms of all time greats. Though, it would be hard to argue he isn't an all-time great.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think there’s a bit of projection going on here.

You guys just won the flag. You should be on a football high all summer that nothing can bring down. But all it took was a few oppo supporters disagreeing with the ranking of SP as 4th best this century to bring out outrage, anger, and name calling from the Collingwood faithful. You guys seem bitterly resentful of the fact that no everyone shares that assessment.

Even you Fadge asked me whether I enjoyed watching SP’s final quarter in the GF, as though I had some personal, emotional investment in wanting to see SP fail.

I’m happy for the Pies and SP. I just enjoy trying to analyse how we might evaluate the different facets of midfield play. I might actually head over to the Dusty = GOAT thread, which I’ve avoided so far, and put the same statistical blowtorch to Dusty that I’ve put to SP, to demonstrate just how far below GOAT status he is.

You're explaining exactly what happened after each of Richmond's flags with Martin but "best ever" or as a minumum "best of the modern era".

 

[RichLeMonde]

You're explaining exactly what happened after each of Richmond's flags with Martin but "best ever" or as a minumum "best of the modern era".

Sure. In both cases it’s probably a relatively small number of supporters (I think only a minority of Richmond supporters think DM is better than GAJ - obviously he’s not). In both cases it’s dumb.

 

[Mr Meow]

Sure. In both cases it’s probably a relatively small number of supporters (I think only a minority of Richmond supporters think DM is better than GAJ - obviously he’s not). In both cases it’s dumb.

Well sure I think it getting very personal is silly. And discussions at time get difficult when you are accused of only having an opinion for being angry, triggered etc. So I get that. There is going to be a hangover in any modern great discussion from the Martin thread I think, which is a shame. People already hated Selwood and Dangerfield anyway, but it doesn't bother me if folks don't rate Dangerfield in the top 10 this century or Selwood in the top 50.

I have irked at suggestions like Ablett was only a home and away star. I don't think you should promote your champions by denigrating others if the evidence is not there.

And remember...everyone overrates their own to some degree. Neutrals say should always rule the day.

 

[Unpredictable]

And yes, just like we marvel at 18 year olds who step in and play an important role well at AFL level

That is nothing to marvel at these days in my opinion, it's not like these kids are debuting in a really tough era, like a Tim Watson for example, now that's something to marvel at.

Anyway, I gave my opinion on Pendlebury, his longevity and consistency will hold him in good stead, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Fadge]

I might actually head over to the Dusty = GOAT thread, which I’ve avoided so far, and put the same statistical blowtorch to Dusty that I’ve put to SP, to demonstrate just how far below GOAT status he is.

Sure you will. Just make sure you stick to the same subset of statistics that are in fact Martin's strengths, based on the way the team was set up around him in that era. Be sure to exclude any defensive measures and leadership, whilst you might want to include fend-offs.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Their jealousy is at an all-time high. They look up the Premiership ladder and see Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon all on 16 flags, they are starved of a Premiership in the modern day (post COVID), their crowd and membership figures have been left behind, they have one of the worst lists in the league and they cannot compete with Collingwood in any way. They are hurting, so they cling to every thread trying their best to be significant in some way.

I didn't see this coming, ie that Richmond fans would be more triggered than Carlton fans about our flag... and it's not even close!!

 

[RichLeMonde]

Sure you will. Just make sure you stick to the same subset of statistics that are in fact Martin's strengths, based on the way the team was set up around him in that era. Be sure to exclude any defensive measures and leadership, whilst you might want to include fend-offs.

Jesus you’re a sook lol

 

[Pistol Night]

Jesus you’re a sook lol

Things not to say at a crucifixion

 

[Surkin]

Interesting that 4 of his 6 All-Australian selections have come on the interchange. Whilst his consistency is unrivalled it probably goes to show his best not quite at the level of some of these other guys.

Of players that have debuted since 2000 I've clearly got him a rung below Ablett, Buddy, Judd, Dusty, Dangerfield.

 

[Pistol Night]

Interesting that 4 of his 6 All-Australian selections have come on the interchange. Whilst his consistency is unrivalled it probably goes to show his best not quite at the level of some of these other guys.

Of players that have debuted since 2000 I've clearly got him a rung below Ablett, Buddy, Judd, Dusty, Dangerfield.

Yeah I’d agree. He mentioned on his pod last week he’s not motivated at all by breaking Boomers games record or gave a shit about the disposal thing. Wants hopefully another flag and is driven by team success. He’s never been a line breaking, “exciting” mid but ya can’t have a team full of Fonzys. Someones gotta be Richie

 

[Fadge]

The update you've all been waiting for has finally arrived - Pendlebury v. Martin Career Rankings, season by season, which is the only fair and logical way to do it.

The best thing about doing it real time is the level of critical analysis one can apply.

For example - Pendlebury 5th in his club's best and fairest, whilst Martin finished 2nd at Richmond.

However, Martin was 20% of votes behind the winner, whilst Pendlebury was a mere 6% of votes behind Collingwood's winner, leaving in his wake All-Australian team member Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

(9th) and squad members Isaac Quaynor

3

Isaac Quaynor

Age

24

Ht

180cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

5star

MG

244.0

4star

(6th) and Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

(10th).

Martin came home with a wet sail in relation to Coaches votes, though it was a matter of too little, too late. Only 2 games worthy of Coaches votes in the first 13 rounds, by which time Richmond's season was on a knife edge. To be 'managed' in a must win round 22 game against St. Kilda, and follow up with 17 coaches votes in the final two games once Richmond were out of finals contention, doesn't excite this analyst.

The conclusion therefore was that if Martin's home and away season was slightly better than that of Pendlebury (and if it was, it was marginal), Pendlebury overtook him with his impressive finals series, culminating in, of course, THAT final quarter in the Grand Final.



So Pendlebury now has 13 of the best 21 seasons combined for the two players - is there no end to this man's greatness?