Injury SJOGHCIU - Offseason Edition

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I don’t think Stengle breaking his wrist in a tackle and Stanley getting a fractured eye socket can be blamed on the Adelaide Oval turf.

Stanley copped a fractured socket? Ouch.

I thought it looked like he could have a problem when it happened.
 
Yep... I always think of American pro athletes whenever Eagles fans or players talk about their demanding travel schedule and the effect it has with injuries and how it stunts their longevity as players. American sportsmen play way more games and spend way more flying time each year. The top players in all their leagues don't seem to have any issues playing well into their late 30's, sometimes even into their 40's.

A better example than NBA and MLB would be the NHL players who suffer similar wear & tear to AFL players.
Not counting playoffs, they play 41 away games a year (quite often playing 2-3 in 'road' games in quick succession.
On average they would have 50 flights and about 65,000 km distance travelled. This is way more than the West Coast & Fremantle players.

You never hear the US sportsmen complain about it or use it as an excuse for their careers being cut short.

It's just accepted as part of the job.
The NHL can have access to up to 90 players in the event of injury who play at lower levels but can be activated at any time in the event of an injury run. NFL list is 53 with a practice squad of 16. NBA has 15 with 2 backups on two way contracts playing in the reserves G-league. In short they have much more list depth and much easier access to backups. Oh and NHL players on average spend a maximum of 28 minutes in each game actually playing. Plus their budget for athletes strength and conditioning etc is unlimited. Hardly comparable at all.
 

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Yep... I always think of American pro athletes whenever Eagles fans or players talk about their demanding travel schedule and the effect it has with injuries and how it stunts their longevity as players. American sportsmen play way more games and spend way more flying time each year. The top players in all their leagues don't seem to have any issues playing well into their late 30's, sometimes even into their 40's.

A better example than NBA and MLB would be the NHL players who suffer similar wear & tear to AFL players.
Not counting playoffs, they play 41 away games a year (quite often playing 2-3 in 'road' games in quick succession.
On average they would have 50 flights and about 65,000 km distance travelled. This is way more than the West Coast & Fremantle players.

You never hear the US sportsmen complain about it or use it as an excuse for their careers being cut short.

It's just accepted as part of the job.

Yet you hear nearly every Vic club use travel back from Perth as an excuse the following week
 
To summarise -
* Jamieson and Bailey Williams were both restricted to handballs and walking laps, I expect Barnett to play on Saturday

* Shuey and Sheed also restricted. Wouldn’t shock me if they rushed Shuey back but my feeling is they won’t risk it.

*Noah Long was talking to the physio mid session.

*Ginbey ran with the main group but then signed stuff for 30 mins and ran off and did not return

*Darling didn’t even run but he’s managing a niggle

* Waterman looks impressive. His tail is up. He’s moving well and just looks so on.
 
I was at training an I overheard a phone call between Gill and Nizzy . Long story short, Gills allowed the Eagles to select Jackson Nelson this weekend
 
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Another day, another set of injuries.

This is beyond bad luck. We are going to need top ups soon.

Time to bring back the big man.

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As annoyed as I am with the SAME players getting the SAME injuries for the fourth year running at least it's forcing us to bottom out and finish at the ass end of the ladder. I'd rather be doing this than what North or the Saints were doing when their vets were coming to an end, finish mid table and get mid first rounders.

That being said I think it's about time they start investigating that turf at the training ground.
 
To add to what Mop has posted

The open training recovery session is usually pretty light and often low numbers but even bearing that in mind this was a light session - not the lightest I’ve seen, that was last year when there was barely a dozen players out there

Less than an hour in total and that was less than half the squad, the rest were done within 30 minutes

Total no shows - Hewett, Cripps, McGovern, Cole, HEdwards and effectively Ryan, although as mentioned he did come out on crutches to sign autographs

Rehab/light duties (walked some laps, some played a handball game, some signed autographs, left early) - Sheed, Hunt, Yeo, Naitanui, Shuey, Chesser, Hough, Winder, Hurn, BWilliams, Bazzo, Dewar, Jamieson, Baker, Long, Burgiel

Jog/walked laps to begin session but didn’t do anything other than some goal kicking after - Ginbey, Allen, Darling, Barrass

Did the laps followed by some goal kicking and some very low intensity, minimal running skill drills for maybe half an hour - Waterman, Gaff, SPS, Kelly, Duggan, LEdwards, Petruccelle, Witherden, O’Neill, Trew, Foley, Barnett, Jones, JWilliams, Rotham, West, Clark, Culley

Always hard to know from these sessions as they will deliberately rest/manage players prior to the main session which is tomorrow. So the likes of Hurn and Shuey will have to prove their fitness then

Other players may be waiting for scans to be assessed so are kept out as a precaution

That said I doubt we see Yeo, Burgiel, Winder or Baz Williams this weekend. Bazzo maybe WAFL but he won’t be in the seniors, same goes for Jamieson

Ginbey had his cal strapped or might have been a compression bandage - didn’t seem overly troubled by it though

Chesser is still in a (left) knee brace but I did see him kick a footy a couple of times on his right so the knee must be reasonably stable

Jack Williams is moving just fine so I don’t think he’s that far off now

I know Mop said Darling didn’t run but he was in the running group initially, I think he’s relatively ok and just being managed

Simpson couldn’t even be arsed with the session only coming out at the very end

Same can be said for the journos - smaller group than preseason and those who were there were mainly the B team journos. The BSDs like Mitch Woodcock weren’t there

Todays injury report will probably need to come out as a mini-series and I expect plenty of TBCs as I’m not sure they’ll be able to get through all their assessments in time
 
This is not spoken about enough. WA teams need to push AFL to consider this in fixturing. No Tas games. All interstate trips are playing two games on six day break. Timing of interstate matches to allow best rehab (not sure if this means fly back same or next day). Etc.

Pavlich (350 games) 860K kms; Kade Simpson (340) 120K kms. Ridiculous to think it doesn’t have an effect.
Do you mean play 2 away games in a row? If yes the current players won't like that....they don't want to stay in Adelaide for 6 days to save a trip
 

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This pretty much covers the bad luck v bad management debate that I’ve been having on here. Article splits the injuries into unavoidable (bad luck) v debatable (bad management)

Final score is 10 unavoidable v 6 debatable from an unbiased journalist who understands what is going on at the club better than most. And isn’t afraid to give them a bake when he thinks it’s justified





West Coast football manager Gavin Bell has promised “holistic audits” of every injury the club suffers as the Eagles trudge through their second crisis in as many years.
The injury list could be as high as 16 or 17 once scan results come in for sore midfielder Elliot Yeo (groin) and ruckman Bailey Williams (hamstring), ahead of a clash with Port Adelaide in Adelaide this weekend.

Bell said he was hopeful that veterans Shannon Hurn (rested) and Luke Shuey (hamstring) would be fit to resume.

He was less optimistic about Yeo.

“He has gone and had some scans. Just to have a look. The fact that he wasn’t able to finish the game makes it probably more unlikely than likely,” Bell told SEN about Yeo’s hopes of facing the Power.

Bell said the club was working hard to trace the source of every injury.

“We are certainly not burying our head in the sand and thinking it is just bad luck,” he said. “We have had a cycle for a while now that we are trying to work our way through. Each injury is audited, each player - especially if they have had a repeat injury - is holistically audited.

“Everything they do from sleep, stress, diet, training loads, gym program. We are certainly having a deep look at everything that we do.”

Bell stressed the current situation was still very different to the crisis that engulfed the club in 2022 because, “... the team that we can put out there are fit and healthy and able to cover the ground.”

He said the Eagles had a strong pre-season and were in a sound position until the Western Derby, when they lost seven players.

“If we had gotten through that game cleanly we would have had four or five in rehab was what we were thinking,” he said.

“Since then it has been one collision based injury after another which then unfortunately puts strain on the group so there are some guys with soreness and there are guys with soft tissue issues.

“There were a number of guys that came in yesterday that were a bit sore. We are just working our way through all of that.”

Williams has faced an extra workload because of other injuries. With teenage ruckman Harry Barnett not considered ready, Williams has literally been the only Eagles ruckman fit to play AFL football for a month.

Asked what would happen if Williams was unavailable this week Bell said: “We have got some options. We are hoping Callum Jamieson is around if we need to (play him).”

Bell was confident Shuey would play after three weeks out with a hamstring issue provided he got through training. And he shed light on the club’s decision to rest 35-year-old Shannon Hurn from round five.

“There were a couple of flags around Bunga being a veteran athlete and a combative player. The sensible decision was to give him the week off. We are hoping that some of the flags have come down a bit and he will be ready and available for us,” he said.

Asked what he meant by flags he continued: “It is everything from his age - we have flags for younger players as well. There are certain loads that their bodies can tolerate. We have a lot of young kids and a lot of veteran athletes.

“The Fremantle game for instance where we lost a lot of guys and we had minimal rotations. The more game time guys play the more elevated their risk is. The biggest flag is previous injury. If you have injured your hamstring before that puts you at greater risk of injuring your hamstring.”

Unavoidable

Campbell Chesser (knee): Had an opponent fall across his knee in the round-three western derby, resulting in a knee ligament strain. Will be missing for some time but it is hoped he plays football in the back half of the season. The problem is how much football he has missed in the past three seasons.

Jamie Cripps (ankle): Had his ankle broken when Fremantle defender Alex Pearce fell on him in a tackle in the western derby. Will struggle to play again this year, is about to turn 31 and that will put a question mark on where he sits moving forward.

Harry Edwards (ankle/wrist): Both were training accidents but both are impact injuries which are nigh on impossible to prevent/foresee. Probably would have played against Geelong at the weekend had he been fit, providing defensive support and a potential ruck back up to Bailey Williams.

Elijah Hewett (ankle): Rolled ankle in the opening seconds of Saturday’s WAFL clash against West Perth – his removal from the game left the Eagles with just five AFL listed players out there. Hard to know if Hewett straps his ankles (some players don’t like to) but this gets classified as an impact injury.

Callum Jamieson (ankle): May be available to play Port Adelaide this weekend and may be required if Bailey Williams doesn’t come up. Injured at training and then re-injured during a game. Almost certainly unavoidable.

Liam Ryan (hamstring tendon): Usually a tissue issue could be classified as avoidable. But Ryan did his tumbling head first off the top of a pack, attempting a screamer in the western derby. Will not be back for some time but it is effectively an impact injury.

Dom Sheed (throat): Impact injury. Accidentally hit in the throat during an innocuous incident in a training warm-up drill. Has missed the past two matches and is likely to miss at least one more. The club is waiting for swelling around the larynx to go down and has not confirmed early reports of a fractured larynx.

Jack Williams (spleen): Received a bump at training in the run into round one, felt unwell and was taken to hospital where it was revealed he had suffered a lacerated spleen. Qualifies as an impact injury. The young forward ruck is not expected to resume playing for another 4-5 weeks.

Isiah Winder (knee): A knee injury is usually either from impact or an awkward movement, but it is possible that the young forward is yet another victim of a training mishap. Winder, 20, finished the round-one WAFL clash against South Fremantle and had 22 disposals, kicking a goal but was a late withdrawal from the team to play West Perth in round two.

Bailey Williams (hamstring soreness): Has had scans and is yet to be confirmed as injured. A hamstring could be argued as a management issue but it is difficult to see how the Eagles could have managed Williams differently. For much of the past month he has literally been the club’s one available ruckman with Nic Naitanui and Callum Jamieson both injured, youngster Harry Barnett still building minutes and fitness in the WAFL after an interrupted summer, and Jake Waterman forced into the back up ruck role.

Every chance that the extra loads would have contributed to injury if he has suffered one. There were just no options for the Eagles to manage him differently.

Debatable

Nic Naitanui (achilles inflammation): The issue is not so much whether Naitanui is injured and whether it was preventable. It is more whether they should have re-signed him for two years in 2022, given his injury history. He will turn 33 next month and perhaps a one-year deal would have given the Eagles more list management flexibility, given he played just eight games last year and will not play again until the mid-season bye at least. Would need a solid block of matches once he resumes to be considered viable for next season.

Luke Shuey (hamstring): Same age as Naitanui so turns 33 later this year. Was reappointed captain after playing 17 games last season after two years when he was repeatedly interrupted by soft tissue issues. It would have been a big call to delist the captain but he is just one soft tissue tear away from being in serious trouble now.

Coby Burgiel (hamstring): Had injured a hamstring in the pre-season and is now said to have re-injured it at training on Monday. Still only 18 and the club is, at the very least, going to have to look at how it manages him from now on.

Jeremy McGovern (hamstring): The question here is ongoing durability. McGovern has just turned 31. He had turned up to training fitter than ever for the 2022 season but broke down and missed 12 games. He looked fitter again ahead of this season but is likely to miss at least 12 again this year. Has had significant rib, back and hamstring concerns now. Was deep in contract talks with the club at the time he went down.

Elliot Yeo (groin): This was probably the result of a match spiralling beyond their control on the weekend. Yeo played managed minutes as a defender for three quarters against Melbourne in round four and the plan was to leave him in defence against Geelong. But the Cats assumed total control of stoppages after a promising Eagles start. Geelong had kicked 12 unanswered goals and West Coast were 77 points down. Yeo started going into centre square stoppages. It helped steady the Eagles and they narrowed the lead to 47 points by the final siren, but Yeo finished the game off the ground, sore. Especially concerning given that he has a history of osteitis pubis. Is only 29 and will be a major concern.

Shannon Hurn (soreness): He is 35 and looked set to retire at the end of 2022 but had a strong season, finished second in the best and fairest and was awarded another contract. Has been steady at the start of this season but the club chose to rest him after four weeks and while they declared he wasn’t injured, they also said he could not have played. Will be assessed before the game against Port Adelaide in the hope he is ready to resume but is clearly going to have to be managed.
 
The majority might be management but there’s still a question in my mind about whether they’ve been managed effectively. Eg Chesser going back on and playing the entire second half on a bung knee (albeit there wasn’t a lot of options at that point), Jamieson being sent back on after doing his ankle in a pre season scratchie.
 
Do you mean play 2 away games in a row? If yes the current players won't like that....they don't want to stay in Adelaide for 6 days to save a trip
Yes understand this. If the two-in-a-row was offered for the whole season it might be different. Essentially be FIFO. (But I don’t know.)

Be interesting to know how many nights at home comparing one model to the other. Presumably second game would be a day game to allow back home same day.
Also rehab etc could be better after the first game of two.

PS: the two games in six days could be for any interstate matches involving WA or WA teams. Eg. Richmond comes to Perth for Dockers and Eagles.
 
The majority might be management but there’s still a question in my mind about whether they’ve been managed effectively. Eg Chesser going back on and playing the entire second half on a bung knee (albeit there wasn’t a lot of options at that point), Jamieson being sent back on after doing his ankle in a pre season scratchie.
Ryan too
 
You add some bad luck injuries to some bad management injuries and you get a crisis.
10 - 6 is not a good score. If it was 10-1 or 2 you might have more of a point.

6 debatable injuries is a lot. Also not sure how Jamieson injuring his ankle at training and then playing on it to reinjure it in a game is unavoidable?

Plus its not just how the injury is occuring either its how its being rehabbed and diagnosed. As well as how we are being conditioned to prevent the injuries in the first place, how we warm up and prepare for games and how we recover post game to prevent injuries in the following week. Any broken link in the chain will cause injuries to build up and continue to occur.
 
Sounds like Hurn should just retire. If he's cooked after 4 games then its probably time to hang them up. Similar to Glass in his final year.
Not having this at all.
You can debate the merits of taking a young blokes spot, but to suggest we should send him to the farm because the guy has to have to miss a few games due to age related soreness with zero history of soft tissue injuries is a bad bad take.
 
To add to what Mop has posted



I know Mop said Darling didn’t run but he was in the running group initially, I think he’s relatively ok and just being managed
1. Where were you? I felt like I would’ve seen you - I saw a really really old geezer in a Bunnings hat but you’re not that old

2. I certainly didn’t see him during the second lap. The first group was very bunched so easy to miss
 
“We are certainly not burying our head in the sand and thinking it is just bad luck,” he said.

Unavoidable

Campbell Chesser (knee): Had an opponent fall across his knee in the round-three western derby, resulting in a knee ligament strain. Will be missing for some time but it is hoped he plays football in the back half of the season. The problem is how much football he has missed in the past three seasons.

Liam Ryan (hamstring tendon): Usually a tissue issue could be classified as avoidable. But Ryan did his tumbling head first off the top of a pack, attempting a screamer in the western derby. Will not be back for some time but it is effectively an impact injury.

Both of the aforementioned were examined by our medical team, and sent back out on the field. And therein lies the problem

Ryans injury in particular is all nigh unforgivable because being unable to deduce a hamstring injury that requires surgery, at this level, is failing diagnosis 101. 2 basic muscle tests would have told Any compent sports medical professional that information. Fact

Some of this IS bad luck, but a lot of it is mismanagement.

Example:

"We sent Luke Shuey back on the ground when he did his hamstring, because we didn't think he could do any more damage to the hamstring. We are shocked he did his other hamstring"

Another:

"Willie Rioli looks like he has done a hamstring"
"No, the medical team says it a corkie and have taped him up"
Monday: "Um, yeah so Willie has actually done the hamstring

Etc, etc. There are more examples like this I can list unfortunately

I will say this again, the only way this changes, is if/when we take the entire medical and fitness departments, gut it, and restaff it. We have the money, connections and resources to do it so there is no excuses

Until this is done, expect more of the same. We will keep backing in our people and praying for change. And occasionally it will look ok, because even a broken clock is right twice a day

But I insist that should we restaff our medical and strength and conditioning teams, watch our "luck" miraculously improve
 
Not having this at all.
You can debate the merits of taking a young blokes spot, but to suggest we should send him to the farm because the guy has to have to miss a few games due to age related soreness with zero history of soft tissue injuries is a bad bad take.
Thats basically what I'm saying. He may as well step aside for someone else. I mean he probably cant now with all the injuries but if we had more available players.
 
Pretty good article and it's great to see Bell being somewhat open with the Media on these injuries. Is a nice change of pace with the club. The issue I have is when I hear/see statements like this...

Asked what would happen if Williams was unavailable this week Bell said: “We have got some options. We are hoping Callum Jamieson is around if we need to (play him).”
..."hoping" doesn't provide much confidence. I would expect that most players coming back from an injury should be playing managed game time in the WAFL for at least 1 or more games upon return. Hoping they are available to be thrown straight back into the heat of a full senior game is just asking for trouble IMO.
 

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Injury SJOGHCIU - Offseason Edition

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