Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[jumperfan]

You had a media release

Don't need one

I know what happened

"Trust me bro"

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Oh cool. Unsubstantiated rumour.

No worries

Head in the sand as well

 

[BIGHAWK23]

"Trust me bro"

Im comfortable with my track record

Harvey was told to move on

 

[phantom13]

Norths midfield is better than yours. Comfortably.

North has a terrible defensive unit and very average forward line aside from Larky.

Funny, we played them in round 8 and beat the in clearances and contested possessions.

LDU, Wardlaw, Sheezel and McKercher all played too (so did Simpkin).

They WILL be better (than just about everyone) but they werent in 2024 and they probably wont be in 2025.

 

[Saints43]

Saints haven’t cut the list deep and if you’re to be believed they won’t going forward.

50% of the list is first to third year players.

 

[jumperfan]

Im comfortable with my track record

Harvey was told to move on

Yeah, no offense, but I'll take an actual media release over the "track record" of BigHawk23 on BigFooty every day of the week.

 

[BrutThough]

You saw a coach "leave" two days ago and you are this naïve to think that calls cant be made whenever the clubs want

Grow up, come with some realism

Who knew the AFLCA requirements weren't realism.

 

[Elixuh]

Funny, we played them in round 8 and beat the in clearances and contested possessions.

LDU, Wardlaw, Sheezel and McKercher all played too (so did Simpkin).

They WILL be better (than just about everyone) but they werent in 2024 and they probably wont be in 2025.

No that’s what I’m saying. They’ll be better than saints midfield in 2025. Plenty of top end talent that we know is good. Whereas the saints have Steele, crab McRae and you’re counting Paddy Dow in your experienced mids list. Not IDEAL.

 

[phantom13]

Also, North defensive unti isnt THAT bad. Combden looks a ****ing gun and Corr and Logue as second and Third talls are okay to good. Jackson Archer is a very good small defender too.

Their forward line needs support for Larkey and Curtis.

Their midfield will be absolutely elite, no question, the whole team is just so ****ing young, i went to our game v them and they look like babies.

If were assessing 2025 based on 2024 and expected development, they might be fractionally ahead, not comfortably. Some of their guys might break out properly as might ours but if it goes as expected they would be in our bracket in 2025.

 

[phantom13]

No that’s what I’m saying. They’ll be better than saints midfield in 2025. Plenty of top end talent that we know is good. Whereas the saints have Steele, crab McRae and you’re counting Paddy Dow in your experienced mids list. Not IDEAL.

Well thats not what you said, and in any event i dont agree for 2025 anyway, they might be slightly better but unless someone really ****ing breaks out theyll be similar.

If anything their midfield balance could be an issue, they have alot of ball winners and not alot of outside run and carry.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Funny, we played them in round 8 and beat the in clearances and contested possessions.

LDU, Wardlaw, Sheezel and McKercher all played too (so did Simpkin).

They WILL be better (than just about everyone) but they werent in 2024 and they probably wont be in 2025.

Centre clearance opposition differential in the last 10 games should both teams the same on -1.4

 

[Elixuh]

Well thats not what you said, and in any event i dont agree for 2025 anyway, they might be slightly better but unless someone really ****ing breaks out theyll be similar.

If anything their midfield balance could be an issue, they have alot of ball winners and not alot of outside run and carry.

Your midfields are ships passing in the night.

You’re a saints fan, I get it, but you’re giving the most favourable reading of your list possible (borderline deluded) and picking out all these minor things re oppos lists to balance the view.

Only Richmond has a worse midfield. Saints second last.

 

[phantom13]

Your midfields are ships passing in the night.

You’re a saints fan, I get it, but you’re giving the most favourable reading of your list and picking out all these minor things re oppos to balance the view.

Only Richmond has a worse midfield. Saints second last.

Lol, righto.

Im about the most pessimistic saints fan youll ever meet, trust me, im not prone to giving favourable readings of anything to do with our list.

I just demonstrated that we beat them pretty comfortably this year with their best choice midfield playing, theyre gonna have more natural development than us but we also brought in a 3 time AA inside midfielder.

How you get them being comfortably better based on actual current results + projected improvement is beyond me but do carry on.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

All Hawthorn have done is play in 1 finals series. Saints did that 12 months ago. What makes Hawthorn this incredible blueprint that other clubs should be following?

Second youngest list in the comp in 2024, and have undoubtedly opened up a window to challenge. Head in the sand stuff to even pretend like the list build wasn’t the talk of AFL circles for most of the season and hasn’t seen huge benefits.

Who says you dont fall back out of the 8 next season just like Saints did this year, or Freo did the season before, or Essendon did after making finals in 2021, or Saints again after 2020?

There is actually nothing at this point yet to prove your list management strategy was superior or something every club should be following. For all we know at this point, you may have already reached a peak with it.

The list management strategy saw the wins come, saw players ask to be traded to them(even if they would get less money), saw the AFL give them a marquee fixture in 2025, saw Channel 7 request to follow the club around over summer for a doco.



All things Saints could only dream of, regardless of whether Hawthorn stagnate or not in 2025.

Saints were 11th oldest list in the comp when they played finals in 2023. Coupled with an easier draw, they absolutely should have been challenging the bottom of the 8.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Your midfields are ships passing in the night.

You’re a saints fan, I get it, but you’re giving the most favourable reading of your list possible (borderline deluded) and picking out all these minor things re oppos lists to balance the view.

Only Richmond has a worse midfield. Saints second last.

Different game style. Let's look at actual figures when it comes to oppositional differences.

Last 5 games of the year. Ranked 18th for clearances (centre and stoppage). But what's this? We ranked first for post clearance contested possessions and ground ball gets. And we won 4 of those last 5 games.

 

[Elixuh]

Lol, righto.

Im about the most pessimistic saints fan youll ever meet, trust me, im not prone to giving favourable readings of anything to do with our list.

I just demonstrated that we beat them pretty comfortably this year with their best choice midfield playing, theyre gonna have more natural development than us but we also brought in a 3 time AA inside midfielder.

How you get them being comfortably better based on actual current results + projected improvement is beyond me but do carry on.

Compare the numbers from the early season and end of season. North mid numbers went from clearly worse than saints to either even or marginally better. Follow that trajectory and they’re comfortably better - probably even if both teams played a game today.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Hugo Garcia and Pou will surprise next year. Get on Garcia for the rising star.

We are not going to bottom out, might stay around the same ladder position but now with lots of young talent coming through. Last 3-4 drafts for us have been pretty good.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Yeah, no offense, but I'll take an actual media release over the "track record" of BigHawk23 on BigFooty every day of the week.

Thats your choice

No worries for me

 

[phantom13]

Compare the numbers from the early season and end of season. North mid numbers went from clearly worse than saints to either even or marginally better. Follow that trajectory and they’re comfortably better - probably even if both teams played a game today.

Yeh as mentioned injuries and bringing in Macrae (or do injuries only count for Carlton? I forget which goalpost you wanna move)

Seriously mate, I’m not claiming we’re going to be better than them next year but they are still kids. You think our kids need until 2028 for us to be competitive but norths kids are gonna be world beaters next year.

I’m pretty grounded you pick and choose pessimism or optimism to suit your narrative.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You mean basically what we did with Battle, which was shrewd and did actually net us a first rounder. Otherwise all you did was bail out on previous poor contract decisions, we dont have to because we havent made too many (at least since Hannebery).

You offered battle more money and he still left. That wasn’t shrewd.
The AFL applied its special sauce and gave you a high pick after your chairman had a big long sook at your B&F about how you can’t compete with other clubs.

You mean like the midfield weve identified to take us forward (Pou, Wilson, Windy the kids weve just drafted)

You want us to cut harder and offer up Jones, Howard and Sharman. One of which would completely ** our backline and two of which will get us ** all.

We have cut the list deep you just dont want to acknowledge it.


Half pregnant, or in the middle of the rebuild? Theyre sort of one and the same depending how you wanna view it. Youre pessimistic about the potential of our kids, thats fair, i just really dont see how we could have cut harder and gotten better picks without just tanking and frankly youve presented absolutely no viable alternative that we didnt already do.

Probably easiest to just agree to disagree at this point.

If they’d have identified them as the future of the midfield why trade in another 30 yr old, instead of handing the reins to one or two of them?

Could have even kept that pick you gave to Dogs for him.

Yes, agree to disagree. I think there’s lots of questions over the Saints list and the moves they’ve made or not made.

 

[Elixuh]

Yeh as mentioned injuries and bringing in Macrae (or do injuries only count for Carlton? I forget which goalpost you wanna move)

Seriously mate, I’m not claiming we’re going to be better than them next year but they are still kids. You think our kids need until 2028 for us to be competitive but norths kids are gonna be world beaters next year.

I’m pretty grounded you pick and choose pessimism or optimism to suit your narrative.

St Kilda should use its war chest and get some established A grade mids who are entering or in their prime. Or get someone like Zac Bailey who can run through the midfield and kick plenty of goals.

 

[BrutThough]

Second youngest list in the comp in 2024, and have undoubtedly opened up a window to challenge. Head in the sand stuff to even pretend like the list build wasn’t the talk of AFL circles for most of the season and hasn’t seen huge benefits.


The list management strategy saw the wins come, saw players ask to be traded to them(even if they would get less money), saw the AFL give them a marquee fixture in 2025, saw Channel 7 request to follow the club around over summer for a doco.



All things Saints could only dream of, regardless of whether Hawthorn stagnate or not in 2025.

Saints were 11th oldest list in the comp when they played finals in 2023. Coupled with an easier draw, they absolutely should have been challenging the bottom of the 8.

So, nothing. Hawks have done nothing yet to be the ideal model of a list build.

Instead of going to the effort of looking our our list age in 2023, you should have put the time into looking up the age of our best 22. That side had the most games played from teenagers for a finalist since 2010. To put it more simply, we were a really young best 22 each week. As much you think hawthorn were special for making finals this year with a young team, you weren't.

 

[phantom13]

You offered battle more money and he still left. That wasn’t shrewd.
The AFL applied its special sauce and gave you a high pick after your chairman had a big long sook at your B&F about how you can’t compete with other clubs.


If they’d have identified them as the future of the midfield why trade in another 30 yr old, instead of handing the reins to one or two of them?

Could have even kept that pick you gave to Dogs for him.

Yes, agree to disagree. I think there’s lots of questions over the Saints list and the moves they’ve made or not made.

Oooft big old swing and a miss.

Many saints posters commented that we were going to float Battle in late 23 for FA compo. It actually caused a lot of angst to the supporters me included. See what happens when you comment about a club you’ve got no idea about?

As for macrae we’ve been through this. If were going to have a crack at an FA we need to be competitive. The kids are just that kids, they need some support and time. Otherwise it’s full North which you keep saying you don’t think we should do.

It’s just cyclical with you being proven wrong at this point.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

As I said days ago, my view is it’s too late in the build to do that and that you’re better off just adding pieces through the draft, trade and fa. Midfield the most obvious worry.

Who is your next generation of midfielder that is on the list? Eg the lions drafted Berry, McCluggage, Rayner, Bailey who all run through the midfield and represent a large portion of the draftable talent that we then complemented with guys we traded for.

Imagine winning a flag and then wasting time banging on about another club on big footy during the off season

 

[phantom13]

Sure, of course not. But just in case you are, just take a deep breath

Im not, in the spirit of good natured feedback, if youre going to pass comment and opinion on opposition clubs maybe do a little, like any, research about them first.